If you were running the JBR investigation

Discussion in 'Justice for JonBenet Discussion - Public Forum' started by Watching You, Mar 4, 2004.

  1. AK

    AK Member


    One day, someone will write the true story of this case. Long after there is an arrest, conviction, jailing and all appeals are exhausted.

    Then you'll understand the deep level of commitment of the parties working this case, and the enormous and impressive help by experts in every possible facet. In fact, this case is a bubbling pot of forensic greatness, much of which is ongoing and available for courtroom presentation, when the time is right.

    As for Bugliosi and Fuhrman, you wouldn't think that way if you knew 'em. Neither has much respect outside the media.
  2. RiverRat

    RiverRat FFJ Sr. Member Extraordinaire (Pictured at Lef

    Until that book materializes......

    Blow your whistle in support of bringing back the only one that went out on a limb to reveal just how good for it Patsy is.
  3. Elle

    Elle Member

    I'll second that for sure, RR! Three cheers for Steve Thomas!
  4. Deja Nu

    Deja Nu Banned

    Elle, my Precious,in retrospect, I realize that the Rs had gollum-defense all along in the form of the Swamp Mistress. I'm considering Courtney Love as Patsy's new counsel.

    RR, hubba hubba-Steve Thomas is the prosecution's number one witness! How I miss him....

    Fedora, are you kidding? No respect for da Vince outside of the media? Go check your facts, Lady. Vince never lost a case...all attorneys are in awe. Unlike Gollam Wood who never tried a case, Alex Hunter who was always too afraid to try a case, and Mary Keenan who can't even make a case. No respect? An entire country was in awe when he almost singlehandedly jailed for life that bunch of violent crazies led by Manson. Weren't you around then? Weren't you aware that the entire state respected Bugliosi and breathed a sigh of relief, felt safe to leave their doors and windows open again? You may not like his personality, but he definitely found his niche. No respect indeed...Since when has respect had anything to do with liking a person? And when did homicide cases become a popularity contest anywhere but Boulder?
    Last edited: Mar 5, 2004
  5. Deja Nu

    Deja Nu Banned

    Defense investigators:

    Attached Files:

  6. Frankg

    Frankg Member

    It's too late..

    Sadly, if you brought in outside experts they'd probably walk away in protest over the treatment of the crime scene from the moment the BPD arrived. Admittedly, with the Ramsey's kicking off the kidnapping tea party at 6AM, things were already screwed up. But seasoned detectives would have had everyone but essential personnel out of the house immediately. The house would have been sealed. A real search would have been conducted by real detectives, not friends and family (how absolutely ludicrous was that?). JonBenet would have been found before 7AM. The whole area would have been photographed, properly tested for prints, DNA, etc. A real coroner would have done an initial inspection on the body within an hour or two to much more accurately determine the time of death. And on and on it goes.

    I think these outside experts would eventually come to the conclusion that the (adult) Ramsey's were somehow involved, but they would not be able to prove it, or prove which one. And the case would remain unsolved. And then, wouldn't most everyone have to say.. "yeah, but that's what we've been saying all along?". ..well, except for a few of us fence sitters, and those totally over on the other side of the fence.

    I still feel pain and sorrow for JonBenet. I still enjoy coming up with or reading other people's case theories. But in my opinion the Ramsey's, either by design or dumb luck, aided and abetted by an unwitting BPD, has so badly mangled the evidence that it will never be possible to convict someone for the crime - unless Burke knows something and tells, or someone cracks.

    As for me.. I'd bring in Columbo.. he *always* solved the case.
  7. Ayjey

    Ayjey New Member


    >Member since 5-8-02
    > 03-04-04, 04:15 PM (EST)

    >"running the JBR investigation"

    > If you were running the JBR investigation, what would you do > with it?

    Seems like someone is getting so desperate that hir has to steal thread ideas from other forums.
  8. AK

    AK Member


    Vince's style would not work in a courtroom today. Even he knows that, as he told a mutual pal recently, and which is why he's writing books now.

    You'll be happy to know there will be a new version of Helter Skelter for network TV soon. I don't know why they're remaking it but they are.

    Both Steven Kay and Vince got lucky with Manson et al. But how hard is it to get convictions for people who sit in the courtroom wearing shaved heads with swastikas carved into their foreheads. And I don't happen to agree with the Manson prosecution, per se. He was overcharged, but I don't think anyone is eager to see him set free.

    Lin Wood has tried cases, by the way. But I'll leave it to his publicist Candy to figure out which ones and how he did. I have no intention of blowing a horn on his behalf.
  9. Watching You

    Watching You Superior Bee Admin


    You know I adorya Fedora, but please riddle me something. How do you know the information you are telling us? You know I'm going to question you on this, just like I questioned the mamethugs, just like I question everything.

    The so-called re-investigation in Boulder is supposed to be top secret - no leaks. I know that's a crock - there are always leaks, but when one person makes a statement like you did, I want to know who is leaking this information. You thought Hunter was doing the right thing, too, and maybe he was as far as not taking the case to court without a fool-proof case, but the onus was on him to be sure certain items of evidence were available to the BPD, and he stonewalled them in some cases. Now you're saying that Keenan is to be trusted.

    It's been more than a year since she took the case away from the BPD under threat of lawsuit by Wood. Surely there should be some hint of progress by now, but there is nothing but silence, except when Keenan wants to prop her intruder theory ala the Carnes decision, further casting doubt on her ability to be fair and unbiased.

    All I'm saying is, you can't throw out these words of wisdom, that you know what is going on and we don't, and just expect us (me) to say, oh, okay, well then we should all feel good about this, then. I need more than someone's telling me how hard the team is working inside the DA's office and what's going to happen years from now. If I were to believe anything anyone told me on faith alone, I would believe you. But, it makes no sense that you would know this when Keenan is supposed to have a tight lid on information coming out of her office. It would mean someone is leaking information. You know how ST was criticized for that.

    So, where did you get your information?
  10. Shadow

    Shadow FFJ Senior Content Moderator

    I agree about Bugliosi, DejaNu... I've read that he's an arrogant SOB, but he obviously was one hell of a prosecutor. Many of his peers are probably jealous and/or have had their toes stepped on.

    "Then you'll understand the deep level of commitment of the parties working this case..." with Smit as one of the people assigned, I'm inclined to wonder if this "commitment" is to find the killer or clear the Ramseys.

    I would be happy to see Bugliosi as lead prosecutor, but I want the FBI doing the investigation. I've heard some say that the FBI "had their chance" - that's BS! The DA's Office never listened to any of their suggestions.
  11. Elle

    Elle Member

    Charles Manson overcharged (?).

    You're the first person I've come across who feels Charles Manson was overcharged, Fedorax. He was the one controlling the others. I hope Charles Manson never obtains his freedom. I personally think this was one of the worst sadistic crimes I ever read about. I know there are many more out there, but I followed this one on the news at the time it happened. It just surpises me to hear someone say Charles Manson was overcharged. How could LE overcharge a monster like that?
  12. Watching You

    Watching You Superior Bee Admin

    Contrary, again

    Manson wasn't overcharged. He should have received the death penalty I believe he was sentenced to before California stopped all capital punishment. He was as guilty as if he had wielded the knives that cut Sharon and her guest himself. I believe he would get the same charges today that he got then.

    At least he's been kept off the streets and it doesn't appear he will ever see the light of day again. He's as dangerous and even more so now as he ever was.
  13. Elle

    Elle Member

    DejaNu - Three little monkeys


    I haven't seen your "Defense Investigators" - the three little monkeys "Hear no evil; See no evil; Speak no evil" for years. I remember when you could buy them in bronze or brass in the gift shops a ve-r-r-r-y long time ago.

    Now how about a photo of yourself as "Prosecutor?" :p I think you would do just fine! You can always ask WY to help you out.
  14. Watching You

    Watching You Superior Bee Admin

    I think we

    need to prosecute all the little terrorists on these forums and the forum overseers who protect them.
  15. Deja Nu

    Deja Nu Banned

    Fed, you always amaze me with your insider knowledge, Keenan support and minimization of other attorneys who have had successful, productive careers. I too would like to know how you know so much about the BDA's efforts on the Ramsey case. And I would also like to know what your connection with Mary Keenan is. No doubt you believe YOU will be the one to write that book, eh?

    Manson undercharged? Bugliosi lucky? Incredible statements! They're making yet another rendition of his prosecution simply because it still makes money. Manson is still a very popular cult figure with alot of whackos in the real world who think he's cool. I'd hate to think you're a member of THAT group, Fed! And if his former trial strategies truly wouldn't work in today's courtrooms filled with scandal-mongering journalists and entertainment-seeking citizens, I have no doubt Vince is accomplished enough to modify his strategies for more successful prosecutions. At his age, and after the distinguished career he's had, I'd sit around and write great books too. It's easier than prosecution, pays a helluva lot more and he's earned it.

    I once handled a juvenile case that I brought Mel MacDonald in on. For those who don't know Mel, he was Reagan's chief counsel at the White House all those years ago. Mel is an incredible person, great personality and very deft in the courtroom. I was amazed to see people flocking into that courtroom, press, freelance journalists, law students, and the curious, just to see Mel on his game. Standing room only, people lining up to shake his hand. We won, of course, and Mel has gone on to handle an internal investigation of the penal system in his state regarding a hostage crisis not too long ago. Had you been there, Fed, I've no doubt you would have taken issues with Mel, just as you do with Vince.

    I don't think sitting around courtrooms to write about cases makes anyone a sufficient enough expert on the practice of law to sit in judgment over attorneys like Bugliosi and MacDonald. I wouldn't even have that kind of audacity after 30 years in the business. When you've tried a few cases yourself, Fed, instead of just watching someone else's hard work, then come talk to me about Vince.

    Shadow, I've no doubt Bugliosi is an arrogant, pompous, abusive prick. I've met alot of those kind of attorneys in my career and it's funny how every single one of them are incredibly successful at what they do. But personality has nothing to do with success as an effective trial attorney, and no doubt there are many inside the legal field and out who feel nothing but jealousy and malice toward Vince. His personality would never permit him a successful career in politics, so often the goal of prosecutors, but I never got the impression with Vince that was of any interest to him anyway. He prosecuted a helluva lot of cases in his career and never lost a one. That's hardly luck, but incredible skill and I don't care if he's an S.O.B. outside the courtroom. When it comes to the Charles Mansons he's put away to make society safe for you and me, he's a hero in my eyes.

    And BTW, Manson and his gang were indeed given the death penalty, and were sitting on death row when the 9th Circuit decided to repeal the death penalty. A whole lot of cases, including the Manson family's, were commuted to life. Manson and the others got life without parole, and that's where they've stayed as they should. Overcharged! God help me.

    As for the FBI, I agree with you. They were hamstrung just like the BPD (but I do agree with Frankg on this point). Had they been allowed by Hunter to take over the case, no doubt there would have been prosecutions. Instead, Hunter brought in Smit to spin the defense chit of the century. "If the glove don't fit, you must acquit" is the same as Hi-Tec bootprints and tall tales of professional sexual predators fashioning intricate killing machine garottes. As long as defense attorneys can manipulate the minds of laymen to focus on everything BUT the evidence, they win. And FBI aren't laymen, are they? Had Hunter had any interest in justice for JonBenet and not his own less-than-stellar in everyone else's minds reputation, we wouldn't be here now.
  16. Tricia

    Tricia Administrator Staff Member

    You all know I love FedoraX. She is the only one who agrees with me politically. She will protect me when you all try and have me killed for liking Hillary....ANYWAY.....if someone could explain away this....

    "I agree with the court's conclusion," Keenan said, "that the weight of the evidence is more consistent with a theory that an intruder murdered JonBenet than it is with a theory that Mrs. Ramsey did so.â€

    Then I might understand what Fedorax is saying.

    There was no need for Keenan to come out with this statement. If she had to make a statement it should have been;

    "The judge did not see all the evidence nor the police file in this case. Having been presented with only evidence from the Ramsey's defense attorney I can understand how she came to her conclusion. However since she was not able to draw her decision from the whole case her decision should be disregarded."

    That I could understand.

    You can't un-ring a bell. Keenan said it. For no reason other than to suck up to Lin Wood.

    How anyone can defend that is beyond me.
  17. Deja Nu

    Deja Nu Banned

    Wait a minute! I like Hillary too. She's not one of my heroes, but as female attorneys turned politician goes, she's ok! You can count on me not killing you over this one, Tricia! LOL
  18. Elle

    Elle Member

    I've always liked Hillary Cinton, and I'm not in the U.S. Don't throw rotten eggs at me. I also like Martha Stewart and was sorry to hear she had been found guilty. A lawyer was saying this afternoon, that there won't be any appeal unless her lawyers can find some fault in the case which would allow this appeal. Wish I knew more about the law, but, I cant help but feel they're using Martha as an example. I felt they also did the same with Leona Helmsley. She once passed me sitting at a table in her hotel in Florida, and she said "Hello, how are you?"
    :p This was long before her trial.

    I can't get over Martha's best friend testifying against her, That's sad! :rolleyes:
  19. Niner

    Niner Active Member

    You must not be around much! :D Hir does that ALL the time... must be a REAL slow day! :)

    and I agree with Frankg - bring in Columbo!!;) and he's probably right on his statement above! DejaNu's idea of the Vidquo society - but didn't they already 'do' this case back a while... or was I dreaming?? :-(
  20. Niner

    Niner Active Member

    Re: Charles Manson overcharged (?).

    Ditto here, Elle! I lived down there at that time and partied in Tujunga Canyon - not far from that ranch! In fact I met Shorty two weeks before manson hacked him up and buried his pieces!! Scary!!:yow: :no:
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