It's an inside job so adios amigo

Discussion in 'Justice for JonBenet Discussion - Public Forum' started by Learnin, Sep 8, 2009.

  1. Learnin

    Learnin Member

    Within 15 minutes or so of admitting to Arndt that JBR's murder was an inside job, John was trying to exit stage left. An unbelievable response, to say the least but it reveals a continuum of action.....

    the body of my daughter is found

    the murderer is someone we know

    We're outta here

    What? Your daughter has been murdered by someone she knew and you want to walk away? Don't you want to help LE figure out which acquaintance did this?

    Folks. I'm a person who puts a great deal of importance on behavior. I think behavior tells us more than ransom notes, cords and blankets.

    John had the presence of mind, in this period of shock, to know this was an inside job so I rule out that he wasn't thinking clearly when he phoned his pilot in order to get outta Dodge. No more than ten minutes prior, the only thing John could have known (if he was innocent) was that someone had kidnapped his daughter. He could only conclude it was an inside job after he found her body in the house and he calmly used his logic to reason it was an inside job during what would have been a state of shock had he not known the body was down there.

    This leaves me with but two explanations in order to account for John's behavior.

    1. John and Patsy were the insiders (thus John knew it was an inside job)and John wanted to distance both of them from LE, or:

    2. John knew he had an enemy and that enemy hurt him. In other words, John knew who the insider was but could not say for some reason and, thus, wanted to distance himself from prying minds.
  2. madeleine_ws

    madeleine_ws Member

    Re nr.2,I've been there.....I really thought it could be possible.....not anymore.....

    Hope you don't mind me bringing a post of mine over here,it's on topic:(re the article kk posted)

    Well,well, know I always hated but hated people who just don't tell it like it is.JR doesn't mention any names in this article but it's obvious who he's talking about.

    "But Ramsey hopes that the new "touch" DNA evidence can eventually release him from the mental torment of not knowing who murdered his child, and from a haunting suspicion that it was someone in the family’s inner circle. He and a few allies from Boulder suspect one particular friend who was familiar with the Ramseys’ home and details of their life."


    But, the irony :D :duh:

    However, District Attorney Mary Lacy, who took over the case in 2005, says that this individual "has been thoroughly vetted and cleared through the new DNA."

    If it wouldn't be about a little girl's murder it would be even funny!!

    Yet Ramsey’s suspicions persist. Asked directly if he thinks this acquaintance killed JonBenet, Ramsey says, "Oh, I don't think so, But then he proceeds to poke holes in the man’s alibi and describe how the Boulder police botched the investigation from the beginning. Moreover, Pam and Michael Archuleta, who remained close to the Ramseys and are also speaking publicly for the first time, tick off circumstantial evidence that they believe points to this man. Asked about the new samples of “stranger” DNA, Michael, who was the pilot of John Ramsey’s King Air jet, adds, “perhaps this person's DNA was not found because he hired someone to do it for him."

    Geez,contradicting himself AGAIN.I don't think so but I think so.Amazing.

    I think I understand now what this was all about .And I think I am done being confused re this subject.
    It's very simple as far as I am concerned.
    I don't believe for ONE second that if JR knew who killed his daughter he would have been so calm about it ,especially if it would have been someone he knew very well.I mean gmab,you wouldn't be able to sleep,you would wanna kill the guy with your own hands fgs.

    I think at some point the RST realized how stupid it would be to push the stranger intruder theory.I mean look how "credible" L.Smit's turned out to be.So what they did was taking advantage of someone who disagreed with them.The perfect victim,since people never knew exactly what their argument was all about.

    But,it doesn't fly.
    If JR is telling me that he knows who killed his daughter and he spent all these years KNOWING and not doing anything about it except sending subtle messages through the media then he is mentally challenged,I am sorry!!It's not how anger works!!!And please don't misunderstand me here but them becoming so religious is bs IMO.Hypocrites,they just used religion as an excuse.

    Why on earth didn't he speak up?Aww,don't tell me he was afraid of being sued,doesn't fly either.If I knew who killed my daughter I would scream his name out loud whenever I get the chance and wouldn't care about the consequences.

    Shows again what a coward he is.You got something to say,say it outloud and take responsability for it,out of respect for your murdered daughter.Don't hide behind coded messages.It makes you look worse.
  3. madeleine_ws

    madeleine_ws Member

    Learning I totally agree with you that this case is more about behaviour.
  4. Learnin

    Learnin Member

    Yes, if John knew who it was, and was just dropping hints, you can rest assured that person was not the killer. That's just another game John was playing....keeping people looking the other way, IMO.

    If John knew who it was, and it wasn't a family member, he is afraid to say, obviously. Obviously, I believe the real answer is was a family member....
  5. madeleine_ws

    madeleine_ws Member

    I always thought that they sent Burke away that morning(knowing exactly there was no danger out there)because they were afraid he would say something in the presence of the cops.(weird thought that they weren't afraid he would say something to the friends where he was sent,or maybe that's why the friends behaviour changed,Burke DID mention something?Dunno)

    Now I think it was because they KNEW JB will be eventually found dead in the basement and they didn't want him to witness that.
  6. madeleine_ws

    madeleine_ws Member

    Isn't amazing how the members of the same team(Ramsey team) think SO different??You would assume they are looking at the same evidence and stuff.One thinks it was a sadistic pedo with a stun gun,two others think it was Oliva or Helgoth,their profiler says it was someone known and JR agrees.:violin:
  7. Voyager

    Voyager Active Member


    Madeline and Learnin, this case is so full of contradictions in facts, conversation and behavior that none of us will likely ever make any sense out of it.

    That is part of the Ramsey genius in escaping detection of their guilt in this crime....contradiction and confusion layered on and on from day one....

    This was a simple crime in my opinion....Simple telling crime scene, simple motive, isolated victim and supects within the family home. So they Ramseys immediately realized that confusion, contradiction and corruption of the crime scene was the only way to point blame away from themselves....

    In their panic, it doesn't seem that they cared very much who they involved or who they accused, they just knew that they did not want the focus to be on them.

  8. koldkase

    koldkase FFJ Senior Member

    You've said it perfectly, learnin. The behavior of the Ramseys has clearly and inarguably been the key to what their priorities were from the moment John "found" the body. Even Lin Wood said the Ramseys were kept out of prison by their lawyers, but condemned themselves in public opinion because of their methods.

    Voyager, you're right. It's not that hard a crime to solve. The only reason it never went to trial is because Alex Hunter worked hard to make sure that wouldn't happen, going so far as to hire Smit, Ollie Grey, and San Agustin for his DA investigation to bolster the intruder theory. The people of Boulder got what they paid for: a ruined murder investigation and a reputation for corruption they're never going to live down in our lifetime.

    As for the Ramseys, they might actually be sympathic in their desperation, even as heinous as the crimes against JonBenet are, except for one thing: they have been DOGGED in their attempts to load their responsibility for child molestation and murder onto the shoulders and into the lives of anyone and everyone they could, all to save themselves. That's so cold and calculating, it gives the actual murder a whole different perspective, as well. Anytime anyone says the warm and fuzzy Ramseys just couldn't have done this, I say look at what they willfully and without hestitation did to so many others.

    Whoever did what to JonBenet that night and in the days and weeks and months before, they had no mercy on her. NONE. That's the legacy of the Ramseys.
  9. Show Me

    Show Me FFJ Senior Member

    Learnin, the best responses are in the Ramseys own book 'Death of Innocence' copy has a big picture of John and Patsey on the front...and a 1 x 1 inch picture of JonBenet on the back. The book isn't really about JonBenet, it is about John and Patsy. They portray themselves as hapless victims forced to hire many attorneys and even a public relations firm...rather than talk to police and do anything to clear themselves so the police can concentrate on finding the killer(s). Something John Walsh himself was puzzled with, as John immediately talked to police, took lie detector test etc.

    If some 'monitoring' foreign killing faction took my daughter and threatened to behead her, I'd not be inviting multiple friends and pastor to my home! The notewriter threaten to kill JonBenet if John was so much as was caught talking to a stray dog. Yet John and Patsy did regardless of the killers threats. All kinds of cars showed up in the Ramsey's driveway first thing in the morning. Maybe I'm being tooo harsh...and John and Patsy felt they could invite the world over as long as they avoided stray dogs? After all the monitoring foreign faction didn't exactly mention friends and pastors.

    And if I saw a strange van in the alley behind my home, as John tells us in his book, I'd be yelling for a cop to check it out right away....but John watches the van for a few minutes and comes to the incredible conclusion the van is not worthy to mention to anyone!

    I guess the van had a 'No monitoring foreign faction members on board' bumper sticker....or John had x-ray vision or something.

    All the actions speak guilty knowledge to me.
  10. Elle

    Elle Member

    I have to agree with you Voyager. Patsy and John Ramsey created confusion and LE were running around in circles. Why even Pam Paugh was running around in a police car wearing a police jacket and collecting the Ramsey's personal belongings, if that(?) from the crime scene. Who has ever heard of anything like this happening after a murder?
  11. Elle

    Elle Member

    Well said, Show Me! The fact the Ramseys even had the audacity to write that book spoke violumes didn't it?
  12. DeeDee

    DeeDee Member

    Imagine ANY parent, even one who knew he was a suspect, knowing or thinking he knows who molested and killed his 6 year old daughter, leaving her strangled in the basement ...and NOT tell police who you think it is?
    And I don't mean giving LE a "laundry list" of people who could have done it. I mean JR was saying he KNEW who did it.
  13. Learnin

    Learnin Member

    Yes, it was purposely staged to confuse. Because of this, we can't make sense of the whole thing. I think I posted at another site that this is probably proof positive a stranger didn't commit the crime.

    And someone wrote somewhere that if we knew the whole truth, there would still be things that would not make sense in the commission of this crime.
  14. Learnin

    Learnin Member

    "That's so cold and calculating, it gives the actual murder a whole different perspective, as well. Anytime anyone says the warm and fuzzy Ramseys just couldn't have done this, I say look at what they willfully and without hestitation did to so many others. "

    Very true words, indeed. I read somewhere that any acquaintance who even dared to ask questions would be written off the friend list immediately. They weren't as warm and gracious as some would like to present.
  15. Learnin

    Learnin Member

    Well, now, you speak the truth for sure. I never thought about it but that big glowing portrait of John and Patsy on the front of their book....that does say a lot, doesn't it?

    And what about that strange van that John saw? I was thinking, when I read your post: "It's a good thing FW had been invited over to the house or I can just imagine John saying one year later: "And you know the driver sure looked a lot like one of my best ex friends."
  16. Show Me

    Show Me FFJ Senior Member

    You said it!

    Amazing isn't it a kidnapping monitoring foreign faction forgot to bring the ransom note, rope etc and had to use the Ramseys stuff....and then! Ta dahh the foreign faction actually forgets to take the kidnap victim!

    The three stoogies of foreign factions.
  17. rashomon

    rashomon Member

    I think if we knew the truth, not only about the actual sequence of events, but also about what drove the stagers to act as they did, then the often unexplainable details of the crime would be explained in that we we'd know what motives lay behind the stagers' actions.
    In the case of the too large Bloomies for example, we would then know the answers to questions like:
    Was it important that JonBenet wear a Wednesday pair indicating that she was put to bed asleep on Wed Dec 25, still wearing her underwear of the day?
    Or was it also important to the stager when she prepared the body for the 'final viewing', to put JonBenet in a factory-new pair, because all her other laundered underwear had stains from prior soiling?
    Or did neither play a role? We would know the answer to that too.
    We would also know why the police could not find the remaining set of the Bloomies.
    Or where the pair was which JonBenet had originally been wearing. etc.

    Since the minds of people who stage scenes in a panic often don't function in an analytical manner, they are bound to make mistakes; especially with parents who kill, one can often also observe elements of parental care finding their way into the staged scenes. Brutally slaughtered children have been put in bed and covered with a blanket (family killer Jeffrey MacDonald did this for example), and the blanket used in the Ramsey wine cellar indicates a parental act too imo.
    For why would a sexual predator bother to cover the body with a blanket at all?
    That blanket is another giveaway, and that the same same fibers from Patsy's jacket were found on it as on other items directly connected to JonBenet's violent death only points once more to Patsy Ramsey as the main stager of the scene. jmpo
    Last edited: Sep 12, 2009
  18. Learnin

    Learnin Member

    "For why would a sexual predator bother to cover the body with a blanket at all? "

    Exactly. And why would a sexual predator move the body into the wine cellar, around the corner and bother latching the door?
  19. Elle

    Elle Member

    rahomon and Learnin,

    The Ramseys being up the whole night paid off for them when both Ramseys, or one of them planned to latch the basement door. Constable French, the first policeman on the premises was one of the first ones to ignore this door because it was latched. The Ramseys knew this would deter them from opening it because no one could be inside because it was latched on the outside

    I am so glad these Bonita papers are there because I discarded a few books on the case. Steve Thomas' book was falling apart, but the Bonita papers have all the research included in them, and I will make good use of them. Thank you Tricia for posting them.

    Thank you Learnin for joining FFJ and wakening a few of us up.

  20. Learnin

    Learnin Member

    Your welcome and glad to be here. My Thomas book is falling apart also.

    Can you imagine what might have happened if French had actually discovered the body first thing that morning? Yet, you have to wonder if proper protocol would have been followed even with a body found???
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