James Kolar's new book! It's what we have been waiting for! Daily Beast article!

Discussion in 'Justice for JonBenet Discussion - Public Forum' started by Moab, Jul 18, 2012.

  1. Elle

    Elle Member

    I'm wondering if Dr. Beuf has ever been asked to hand over his personal file of JonBenét Ramsey to the Medical Authorities for them to check over the 30 visits made by Patsy Ramsey(?). He appears to have kept his mouth shut tight! Do they Care?
  2. BobC

    BobC Poster of the EON - Fabulous Inimitable Transcript

    Is a urinary tract infection synonymous with vaginitis?
  3. fr brown

    fr brown Member

    No, but it can explain JonBenet's bedwetting. And if she had chronic UTI, that would need some explaining. How many bubble bath-induced urinary tract infections would she need to have before you stop doing that?

    The information about these infections didn't come from Patsy. (I seem to recall that the police got their hands on the pediatrician's files somehow. I could be wrong about that.) But I know that Patsy didn't disgorge this information. Why would she conceal them if they had an innocent origin?

    (BTW, the next thing Kane asks Ramsey about after JonBenet's urinary tract infections is Patsy's panic attacks and use of Xanax.)
  4. koldkase

    koldkase FFJ Senior Member

    I believe Dr. Beuf was asked if he had done an exam with a vaginal speculum--used during internal vaginal examinations, it opens the vaginal cavity. Yes, it's as uncomfortable as it sounds; women know what I'm referencing, a dreaded part of any GYN exam for women.

    Dr. Beuf said no, he'd just done a cursory exam of the outer genital area, if memory serves. I can't remember the source for this exactly, just that it was not contested? Maybe it was in one of his interviews about the case?
  5. koldkase

    koldkase FFJ Senior Member

    In Kolar's book, he has a couple of chapters on the autopsy. Finally we find out in more detail that Dr. Meyer found the chronic vaginal injuries troubling evidence of prior sexual abuse. He immediately called a meeting of other professionals that afternoon. Let me quote from the book:

    From "Chapter Five, Cause and Manner of Death":

    Continuing in "Chapter Six, Interpreting the Injuries":

    PS: Can we continue this discussion on the thread specifically about the information in the book? Just to keep it easily referenced?

    Last edited: Jul 21, 2012
  6. BobC

    BobC Poster of the EON - Fabulous Inimitable Transcript

    Yeah let's go over to the other thread. I'll post a pic of the "obscured from neighbor's view" area around the grate.
  7. BobC

    BobC Poster of the EON - Fabulous Inimitable Transcript

    And this is my intellectual review of the intruder theory

    Attached Files:

  8. koldkase

    koldkase FFJ Senior Member


    Always the soul of brevity...and tactful, too!
  9. heymom

    heymom Member


    Does anyone know where Burke is, these days???

  10. Cherokee

    Cherokee FFJ Senior Member

    Yes. Burke was living and working in the Atlanta area after graduating from Purdue in May 2010 (with a Bachelor of Science in Computer and Information Technology). However, in January 2012, Burke moved back to Indiana and now works as a web developer for a wireless management company in Indianapolis.
  11. RiverRat

    RiverRat FFJ Sr. Member Extraordinaire (Pictured at Lef

    Welcome Back, BobC

    Could be.

    Two things though...JonBenet's body was wiped down, correct? Would that remove semen, if any?

    Can someone help me out with this delicate question? JonBenet was such a petite little six year old...would "digital penetration", enough to be classified as chronic, be more evident with an adult as her victimizer over the experimentation of smaller digit of a nine year old?

    To even have to ask such questions because her parents never did...

  12. heymom

    heymom Member

    No, if semen had been present inside her vagina, wiping down would not have removed it, and probably the person doing the wiping down would still have missed a spot or two, unless they had been very, very thorough.

    It's my opinion, not as a medical professional, but just as a female, that an adult male with the height of John Ramsey, would have done more damage to JonBenet than had been done. There had been no penile penetration, that was clear, or there would have been no hymen left and JonBenet would have had other traumatic injuries. So the damage was caused by "fingering." Would an adult molester have satisfied himself with that? Or is it more likely to have been a 9 year old boy? Would Burke have known what that even was? I go back and forth, in my mind. And where does the bed wetting that night fit into the whole thing? Did Patsy actually hit JonBenet in the head, out of anger that she wet the bed again? If so, then whoever staged JonBenet's body and actually killed her had to know about the molestation because it was covered up, or there was an attempt to cover it up. It's all so damn confusing. And that is what the Ramseys wanted.

    It is odd that Patsy mentioned that she had considered John as a molester. Very odd indeed.
  13. BobC

    BobC Poster of the EON - Fabulous Inimitable Transcript

    semen is very hard to wipe away completely without residue remaining. Also--not to be too graphic--but it also tends to fly all over the place so not finding even a trace of it at any of the crime locations is very suspicious.

    I believe JBR's injuries were due to experimentation.
  14. koldkase

    koldkase FFJ Senior Member

    Okay, I'm officially unnerved with the oooky stuff.

    Fuzzy bunnies fuzzy bunnies fuzzy bunnies fuzzy bunnies


    BobC, I think we can agree, looking around the Ramsey basement in the recently released video, with live electrical wires hanging exposed in the unfinished train room closet, the junk tossed around all over the place, the Ramseys weren't very particular about things like broken windows.

    Or broken children, for that matter.
  15. heymom

    heymom Member

    Sorry, KK, for the graphic posts. It's just that someone was molesting JonBenet, and we are trying to figure out who and how.

    Speaking of broken children...So John Ramsey was ready to leave his daughter's corpse and fly away to Atlanta...Because of a meeting he suddenly remembered??? Then as soon as police allowed the family to leave, he and Patsy left JonBenet lying under the Christmas tree like a broken doll. He certainly acted like a molester, who would have had no regard for his victim, even though she was his own daughter. Patsy's nervous behavior is at least more in character with someone who is guilty, where John's actions are less out of guilt than perhaps a fear of getting caught.

    Maybe Patsy knew in her heart what was happening and put the dictionary that way, hoping that someone would figure it out.

    I can't get the timeline straight in my head now - if JonBenet had wet her bed that night, then the head blow didn't happen in the basement, because how and when would she have wet her bed?
  16. koldkase

    koldkase FFJ Senior Member

    No need to apologize, heymom. I'm just the peanut gallery here. I've had explicit discussions on that topic many times. It still isn't pleasant, though, and nothing we can do about that.

    Good question about the timeline, as well. I actually haven't re-thought that, and I've had a fairly consistent theory for some time about the sequence of events.

    But if the bed sheets were reeking of urine, then the child did wet the bed that night--unless she wet it the night before and Patsy hadn't changed the sheets. In that case, JB might have slept on the spare bed in Burke's room, as she sometimes did, according to Patsy.

    That puts a different picture together, doesn't it?

    Of course, if there was a bedwetting incident that night, this would go back to why Thomas believed the "bedwetting" theory.

    Kolar has a photo in the book to accompany his section on JB's "red shirt" found "balled up" on her bathroom vanity counter. It's a reminder that this was the first story Patsy told LE that morning--JB was wearing the red shirt when she was put into the bed.

    Then Patsy changed her story later, after the body was found wearing the white shirt.

    So maybe the pink pj pants were wet. Maybe the red top got wet. Maybe the blanket got wet, as well. Or not.

    Patsy rinsed out the red top and left it on the vanity? But we've never found out where the pink pj bottoms got to, that match the top on JB's bed in the crime scene photos, which she wore in the Christmas morning photos of her.

    Another thing I was noticing about the photo of the red shirt on the vanity top: the drawer is left half open, as well. We knew this, because Patsy is asked about it by Haney in '98. Also a drawer was left open in the child's bedroom, which Patsy admitted to doing.

    Now think about the drawers left half open in JAR's bathroom, nearby.

    And the diapers hanging out of the cabinet in the washing area outside the bedroom.

    I've always thought this appeared to be someone running around, hurriedly looking for and/or taking things out of drawers/cabinets, frantic enough not to bother closing drawers and doors.

    I know I'm a bit anal retentive, but who leaves drawers/doors hanging open all over the house? The place is very disheveled, so this seems to be a carelessness that was consistent with their lifestyle.

    Like not fixing a broken window, or exposed electrical wires.

    Brain overload. :headache:

    I need to keep reading.
  17. Cherokee

    Cherokee FFJ Senior Member

    That was my first thought when I read of JonBenet's bedsheets reeking of urine. JonBenet may have gone to Burke's room to sleep after that.

    Maybe after being put to bed, Burke decided to get up and play with his new toys down in the basement. Didn't John (in one of his revisions of Christmas night) say that he and Burke put together a new train set before going to bed? Maybe JonBenet followed Burke to the basement and started messing with his new train, and Burke got angry like he did when JonBenet and a friend messed with his computer game.

    Just trying to make sense of all the clues we're being given.
  18. Cherokee

    Cherokee FFJ Senior Member

    No, it does not. If you look in the Ramsey Case Library we have, there are links, photos and floorplans of the Ramsey house. You'll see where the "train room" and "broken window" room (as shown in the video) are in connection with the "wine cellar" where JonBenet's body was found. I've outlined the area and path of the new video in red below.

    The "train room" is called the "hobby room" in this Ramsey floor plan of the basement, and the broken window is in the "storage room." The video explores the two closets in the "hobby room." The golf clubs are found in the closet between the "hobby room" and "storage room." Whether they had anything to do with JonBenet's death is conjecture, but it's interesting to see them in the basement closet.

    Unconscious and near death from the head blow, JonBenet was laid on her stomach on a piece of carpet just outside the "wine cellar" door, next to Patsy's paint tote. That's where the ligature was made from a broken paintbrush and some Stansport cord. It was then tied around JonBenet's neck and pulled from behind JonBenet, who was still on her stomach. Whether the stager knew JonBenet was still alive or not, strangulation was achieved with the ligature, and JonBenet's bladder released urine upon her death. JonBenet was then cleaned up, redressed in oversized Bloomie underwear, wrapped in a blanket and placed in the "wine cellar," with the loose wrist bindings and small piece of duct tape added for staging.


    Attached Files:

    Last edited: Jul 22, 2012
  19. Moab

    Moab Admin Staff Member

    John originally said he was working on a parking garage assembly with Burke, but on the main floor of the house. In his most recent book that has changed to a Robot.
  20. heymom

    heymom Member

    Okay, so Patsy's paint tote was in the BOILER room? Because according to that diagram, the boiler room is in front of the "wine cellar." What was the paint tote doing there in the first place? I can see it being in the hobby area, but over by the furnace? This whole scenario is coming unraveled in my mind, maybe I am just forgetting the details after so much time...

    You know, as weird as I think Patsy was, I just can't see her doing this to her own daughter. Not the actual strangulation. If John Ramsey had been the molester, I CAN see him doing it.
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