James Kolar's new book! It's what we have been waiting for! Daily Beast article!

Discussion in 'Justice for JonBenet Discussion - Public Forum' started by Moab, Jul 18, 2012.

  1. Cherokee

    Cherokee FFJ Senior Member

    No, Patsy's paint tote was not in the "boiler room," but next to it. If you look closely, you can see the door to the "wine cellar" is part of a narrow hallway separate from the "boiler room," which has it's own door. When looking at photos of the area, it's easier to see than in the floor plan because the photos show the boiler room door closed, as opposed to the floor plan. Apparently, the paint tote was sitting close to the door next to a piece of carpet. That's where the urine stain was found (and confirmed by Kolar when asked on Tricia's radio show).
     
  2. Cherokee

    Cherokee FFJ Senior Member

    Thanks, Moab. Here's another version of John's story. Burke was working on a "model." Maybe that's where I got the idea of a train, as in "model train."

    So, John says it was a "parking garage," and "robot" and a "model." Hmmm, what else can he come up with? Maybe John has trouble remembering what Burke was playing with because John isn't telling the truth. He's lied about so much, how do we know he's telling the truth about THIS detail? After all, John said he carried JonBenet up to bed that night, but Burke says JonBenet WALKED up the stairs to her room!

    http://www.acandyrose.com/crimescene-christmasday.htm

    07-09-1998 A&E Documentary
    'Who Killed JonBenet’
    By Michael Tracy and David Mills

    John Ramsey: "Burke was downstairs trying to put together a model that he'd got for Christmas and I couldn't get him to go to bed. We were going to get up in the morning and leave to go to Michigan so I help him put it together so I could get him to go on to bed. So he went to bed and Patsy and I went to bed."[/QUOTE]
     
  3. heymom

    heymom Member

    Okay, thank you, Cherokee. Were there other things in that hallway that should have been in the hobby room? Was Patsy's paint tote all by itself? I seem to remember that the entire downstairs was cluttered and messy, and that perhaps there were other items in that hallway. But it's odd still to me, that there is a hobby room right around the corner yet the paint tote is found in the hallway between the boiler room and this other room with a dirt floor, that gets called the "wine cellar" although I don't think any wine was ever kept there.
     
  4. Cherokee

    Cherokee FFJ Senior Member

    Here's a different graphic (from the FFJ Ramsey Case Library) of the basement that might give you a better idea of the layout and where the paint tote, etc. were located.

    http://www.forumsforjustice.org/forums/showthread.php?t=9775

    Originally posted at: http://www.geocities.com/CapitolHill/Senate/6502/primer2/primer10_blue.html
     

    Attached Files:

  5. Cherokee

    Cherokee FFJ Senior Member

    It WAS cluttered and messy. Here is one photo (from the FFJ Ramsey Case Library) showing the paint tote and some of the items around it in the basement.

    http://www.forumsforjustice.org/forums/showthread.php?t=9777
     

    Attached Files:

  6. heymom

    heymom Member

    In that photo, was the urine stain found to the left or to the right of the tote as you look at it?
     
  7. Moab

    Moab Admin Staff Member

    The "parking garage" was pretty prevalent on Topix, so it may not be accurate, I do remember the "model" though, and I'm sure his new book says Robot...
     
  8. JC

    JC Superior Cool Member


    So do I.
     
  9. cynic

    cynic Member

    They are having trouble keeping the story straight, Moab. It's up to three different inconsistent versions by my reckoning.

    TT: Okay. (inaudible) Let’s go back to the 25th, sorry about that. Get home about nine, nine-fifteenish, Burke’s downstairs playing; do you remember what kind of toy that was?
    JR: Oh, it was a little thing that kind of unfolded, and it was like car ramp or something and then it folded all back together and it made something else.
    TT: Was it like (inaudible) . . .Was it like putting stickers on it?
    JR: Well, it was a plastic thing he had to assemble and he had some stickers too, and uh, he was intent on getting it done before he went to bed, so . . .
    TT: Did you help Burke get into his pajamas that night?
    JR: Yeah, like I do every night.
    LE interview, 1997

    Meanwhile, I went downstairs to try to get Burke to come up to bed, but he was deeply involved in assembling the miniature parking garage he had received that morning. I could tell he wasn’t going to go to bed until the project was finished, so I settled down on the floor beside him. Helping him complete what his mind was focused on was the best way to get us both in bed quickly.
    Death of Innocence (2000,) John and Patsy Ramsey, page 11

    "Burke plays downstairs in the living room by the Christmas tree. He's trying to assemble a mechanical robot made of the Legos he got for Christmas, so I sit down on the floor to help him put it together, but it's way too complicated for tonight."
    The Other Side of Suffering (2012,) John Ramsey, page 7
     
  10. koldkase

    koldkase FFJ Senior Member

    THIS.

    It stands to reason when you're lying so often for so long, remembering the details is a problem.

    Here's the transcript of Patsy Ramsey talking about when Burke hit JB with the golf club.

    Upon thinking about this, I think there must be a typo or the transcriber misheard what Patsy said. Replace "he" with "she was two and a half years old" and it works. The way the math is if Patsy said HE was that age, it doesn't work at all, because JB wouldn't have been born yet, much less walking.

    So Burke would have been approximately six and a half when this accident occurred?


    If you continue to read this part of the transcript, Patsy describes Burke's therapy. Detective Haney also describes Burke curled up in the chair when he was being questioned about JB during his interview on tape about the murder.
     
  11. cynic

    cynic Member

    One of the shortest roads to RDI is through a review of Ramseys lies, I mean interviews and other statements.
    I’m not sure where you are in your reading of Kolar’s book but it was an analysis of LE interviews that took him off the fence.
     
  12. koldkase

    koldkase FFJ Senior Member

    Yes, I'm getting there in the book. What semi-intelligent human could read all those lies, evasions, and fabrications in the investigation of the murder of a child and not fall off that fence?
     
  13. Cherokee

    Cherokee FFJ Senior Member

    KoldKase, I agree it's a transcription error. If Burke hitting JonBenet with a golf club happened in the summer of '93 as Patsy said, then JonBenet would have been almost three years old since her birth date was August 6, 1990.

    Burke would have been 6 1/2 in the summer of '93, as he was born January 27, 1987.
     
    Last edited: Jul 26, 2012
  14. cynic

    cynic Member

    Hey Heymom,

    Kolar doesn’t say a word about the urine stain, other than in reference to my question on the radio show. I would think the stain would have to be directly in front of the WC door because there is simply no room on the left.
    The only close reference is the following from page 49.
    It appeared that the garrote had been constructed at the entrance to the doorway of the Wine Cellar, and investigators believed that JonBenét’s murder had taken place in that very location.
     
  15. DeeDee

    DeeDee Member

    According to that statement, BR couldn't have been 2 or 3 years old when he hit JB with the golf club. For one thing, is JB was walking around she had to be at least 1 year old, and he is nearly 4 years older. JB was 6 when she was killed and BR was to turn 10 in 2 weeks. So if she was walking, he was at nearly 5.
     
  16. heymom

    heymom Member

    Okay, so in that photo, the door to the "wine cellar" is to the right of the tote, and that is where the urine stain was found? Thanks. I wish Kolar had refrained from using the term "garrote," because that little bit of string was never a garrote at all. Or at least put it into quotes.
     
  17. Karen

    Karen Member

    Interesting how she came up with the year this happened so quick off the top of her head but when it came to Dec. 25/26 she couldn't hardly remember a darn thing. Or so she said anyway.

    How in the heck would a person remember the year and accident happened between the children so easily and quick? I mean, who does that?
     
  18. Tricia

    Tricia Administrator Staff Member

  19. koldkase

    koldkase FFJ Senior Member

    Yes, who indeed. Patsy did it repeatedly for three days. She did it in '97 and 2000, as well.

    Another "tell" that didn't fool Michael Kane, who said he never felt like he got a straight story from the Ramseys. That's mentioned in Kolar's book, as well.
     
  20. Cherokee

    Cherokee FFJ Senior Member

    And in this article:

    http://www.forumsforjustice.org/forums/showthread.php?t=10101

    Kane spent many hours questioning John and Patsy Ramsey about their daughter's murder. He said he believes they have yet to give him the straight story.

    "When I met with them, I never felt that they were genuine," Kane said. "I always felt like I was talking to a press secretary who was giving responses with a spin.

    "I always felt like their answers were very careful and, in some cases, scripted. And that caused me a lot of concern."
     
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