James Kolar's new book! It's what we have been waiting for! Daily Beast article!

Discussion in 'Justice for JonBenet Discussion - Public Forum' started by Moab, Jul 18, 2012.

  1. fr brown

    fr brown Member

    I'm replying to myself here because I read last night in PMPT that Patsy talked to Pam Griffin about JonBenet's "infections" and told Griffin they were hard to clear up because JonBenet was always wet.
  2. koldkase

    koldkase FFJ Senior Member

    That's shocking on so many levels--to me, anyway. To Patsy, no big deal...at least, when she had to address it publicly.

    Privately, how can a constantly wet six year old not be a problem? Worrying about her health issues alone would be stressful.

    Then to find out someone was sexually assaulting her...or that the children were playing doctor...surely was a lot for the Miss America wannabe to handle.

    I was thinking the other day about Patsy's cancer surgery and fight; how many drugs did she take during that for pain? How much did she have to deal with in terms of withdrawals?

    I ask because of her religious "laying on of hands" where she was sure she was cured. I know people practice that sort of thing and believe in it fervently, but I got to wondering what drugs she was on at that time, if any.

    I knew someone who was in recovery from back surgery on heavy morphine for pain and she told us she saw god.

    Just some random thoughts. I'm just getting woke up with my coffee...can you tell? :coffee:
  3. heymom

    heymom Member

    To my mind, Patsy's behavior is that of someone in denial. Her perfect world wasn't so perfect on the inside, something was going on with JonBenet and someone else in that house, and I am pretty sure she did know about it. All those visits to the doctor? The dictionary being open to "incest?" If the molester was John, I would not doubt for a minute that he would deny and gaslight her until SHE felt crazy for even being in doubt.

    Whatever happened in that house, it was NOT the perfect little world that both John and Patsy make it out to be. JonBenet was being abused, either by Burke or John, and was killed, most likely when she began to resist or the abuser thought he would be caught. And then Patsy helped cover it up.

    That's my story and I'm sticking to it.
  4. koldkase

    koldkase FFJ Senior Member

    I think this is very close to the truth, if not spot on.

    It really is heartrending.

    Like so many victims of sexual abuse, JonBenet found herself being blamed (Patsy's statement to Pam Archuletta that JB was "flirting" and "too friendly"), without anyone to protect her. Several women/mothers who knew her said she was looking burned out...but what really was happening was she was being sexually abused.

    Then she was silenced forever.
  5. fr brown

    fr brown Member

    Patsy must have taken JonBenet to Dr. Beuf--or to someone--for treatment of JonBenet's urinary tract infections. Having a chronic bladder infection would put JonBenet at risk for infection getting into her kidneys. I think some of those 30-odd trips to the pediatrician must have been for this problem. Did either Patsy or Beuf tell the police about it? Doesn't seem like it.

    JonBenet could have gotten this infection(s) from her notoriously bad butt-wiping habits, but her vaginal changes couldn't have come from "urination" according to Thomas.

    We know Patsy was taking Xanax near the time of the murder because Kane asks Ramsey about it.
    Last edited: Jul 23, 2012
  6. heymom

    heymom Member

    No matter who killed JonBenet, it was not premeditated, but a crime of emotion. If it was Burke, then he should have gotten help, because even most molesters don't kill their victims. If it was John, he should have been put behind bars. Patsy did not have the courage to truly stand up for JonBenet, which is so sad. I don't know if she herself was abused as a child/teen - I know we've had discussions about that in the past. She lived in a make-believe world of her own creation, but the denial about what was happening in that house cost JonBenet her life. I guess the make-believe perfect world was more important in the end than standing up for her little girl, even after she was dead.

    It's John's behavior that points me to him as the perpetrator. He was the one who wanted to run to Atlanta, he was the one pacing the house and agitated, he was the one who "found" the body. Yes, it was Patsy who wrote the note, but he could have been standing over her making her do it. He was the one who admitted to having seen the movie "Speed" with the line, "Don't grow a brain" in it. To my mind, all signs point straight to John. And he is obviously a narcissist, so protecting others is not his style. I do not believe he would protect Patsy or even Burke, unless they had information that could put him in jail. He wanted Burke close in case he said something that would point back to John.
  7. Elle

    Elle Member

    Hard to picture a small child picking up a golf club and hitting a toddler with it DeeDee; especially with adults present. Of course there are children's golf clubs too(?). Plus, one would have thought if the children were this young, adults had to be close at hand to quickly repremand or snatch the golf club away. This is the way my mind is working! Of course when adults start talking sometimes the children are neglected!
  8. Elle

    Elle Member

    I remember Patsy's mother telling the police little JonBenét would shout for the first person who heard her to come and clean her up when she was sitting on the toilet. Patsy sure didn't take full care of this lttle girl when it came to cleaning her up, but she sure took special time with her other end "her face" when it came to putting on the makeup and doing her hair to make her look like a street walker on the stage or beauty pageants. It seems to me Patsy didn't give two hoots who cleaned her little girl up. It was too dirty a job for her to soil her hands!
  9. heymom

    heymom Member

    This screams of boundary violations. To allow her 6 year old daughter, who should have already been able to use the toilet alone, to be cleaned up by anyone who happened by? :eek:

    Of course, I don't really believe that is what was happening. I think there were several layers of things going on. One is that JonBenet was wetting her bed, perhaps after being continent for a long time. Patsy likely knew what that meant, along with vaginitis that should not be happening in a 6 year old girl. I think she may have displaced her anger at JonBenet's molester onto JonBenet instead. She may have been angry when JonBenet called out to be cleaned up after she used the toilet, and simply ignored her, making others respond in her place.

    Another layer might be that John would go in and "help" JonBenet in the bathroom, and then told Patsy that JonBenet needed help and he was the closest person. He could be the source of the story that JonBenet would call out to anyone nearby to help her. That would cover him from looking a little pervy to be in the bathroom with his 6 year old daughter.

    JonBenet herself could have had her boundaries violated so much that she no longer knew she should have privacy in the bathroom, and be able to clean herself up. And not just sexually, but things like telling her mother that she didn't want to do this and such, but having Patsy ignore her and go right ahead anyway. "Oh, you don't mean that, etc. etc. etc." many very otherwise well-meaning parents do this all the time. It gives the child an inability to trust her own emotions/desires/thoughts.

    I do not think that Patsy was abusing JonBenet. The reason being, that if she were, she would make SURE to be the only one who cleaned JonBenet up, so that no one would have private access to her little girl. I know that some here have wondered if Patsy may have been abusing her daughter, but I'm not one of those.

    I can see Patsy losing it and shaking JonBenet, maybe striking her head on something in the bathroom, but that injury is from a LOT of force. My son hit his head on asphalt, he was on a skateboard going quite fast, and he got a minor skull fracture from that. That hole in JonBenet's skull was from some object being DRIVEN into her head, I don't believe an accidental contact with a faucet would have done that. Maybe she'd have had a skull fracture, but not that hole and her skull basically cracked in half.
  10. Elle

    Elle Member

    I have always thought, like Delmar England, the lamp on the kitchen table was the weapon which Burke Ramsey may have lifted in anger and bopped JonBenét on the head without thinking of the full outcome. It does not have a smooth surface on both sides. More than likely he was fed up to the teeth with the attention JonBenét was given, and if she was irritating him at the table. To me, this would have been a natural scene! Plus it was on the kitchen counter!

    I too don't see Patsy Ramsy herself in this abusive light of sexually assaulting her own daughter; however, she must have known during the times of bathing her little girl there was more going on here than a normal irritation in her little girl's vagina. Having had three sons, I was never confronted with this scene. I do have granddaughters but their mothers always took care of them 100%.

    I cannot see Patsy Ramsey in the roll of "patience with teaching her little girl clean toilet habits." She didn't have the patience for starters with her bed-wetting! One does need a lot of patience and understanding with this
    scene. No doubt, due to her own upbringing with her domineering mother.

    It is good we have Chief Skolar entering this scene and having the courage to write a book. I wish him all the luck in the world here, and I am eagerly awaitlng for some feedback from John Ramsey. Nothing but
    s-i-l-e-n-c-e at the moment!
  11. heymom

    heymom Member

    Elle, I can see something like that happening, but would a normal 9 year old brother actually hit his sister in the head with a lamp? Or would he just push her out of her chair, punch her on the arm, or whatever? No one ever came out and said, "That was one strange little boy, he was always drawing macabre scenes with guns, people with blood gushing, etc.!" No one ever had anything at all to say about Burke. I would think that a 9 year old who had enough anger at his sister to hit her that hard with a lamp, and not have any conscience about it at all, at the time or since, might have some other character traits that would have shown up, you know?

    And I wonder about Burke too, because of the manner of the abuse, but if he really did this, I just think he might have some signs/symptoms at the time and over all these years. "What did you find? What do you want me to do?" doesn't sound like he actually did it, does it?
  12. Cherokee

    Cherokee FFJ Senior Member

    Heymom, when Elle says "lamp," she means what Americans call a "flashlight," specifically the Maglite.
  13. Cherokee

    Cherokee FFJ Senior Member

    Heymom, you need to read Kolar's book. There are some revelations about Burke that will most likely change your mind about him not being a "strange little boy" with problems of his own.
  14. heymom

    heymom Member

    That would be a "torch," Cherokee.

    But regardless, I just cannot see a 9 year old boy wielding enough force to bust his sister's skull in two like that. Not unless he was really a monster, and by age 9 that would have had to have shown up somewhere else.

    If the golf club accident hadn't been an accident, then that would have been a problem. If that event had been intentional, and Burke had gone after JonBenet with a golf club, at that young age, I might begin to believe that he had enough of a problem to carry out an assault that would cause JonBenet's death from that head injury. I'm still just not sure any 9 year old could muster enough force to do such a thing. And, assuming he did, the questions he asked were not in that context and he has done nothing since then.
  15. Cherokee

    Cherokee FFJ Senior Member

    I know about Brits and Canadians calling flashlights a "torch," but some of the older ones also call flashlights "lamps."

    Burke was three weeks away from being 10 years old, and he was a head taller than JonBenet. If she was crouched down, not standing up, Burke most certainly could have brought down a golf club on her head with enough force to crack it.
    Last edited: Jul 23, 2012
  16. Elle

    Elle Member


    I personally, from what I read about him before, felt he was a neglected little boy. This was why he was always playing his Nintendo game or whatever was available at that time. I did read this somewhere! I have been in the presence of similar scenes over the years of seeing a few little brothers being neglected because of the attention given to their sisters.
    Of course one of the little boys did have Tourette's Syndrome. I personally think he had plenty to be annoyed with, with all the fuss made over JonBenét. What other conclusion is there? None! I feel he is the reason for the cover-up! It's the most logical answer!

    The ransom note from day one was written by Patsy Ramsey and over dramatised. Good grief!

    John Ramsey was forced into finding JonBenét's body because the cops would never have found that room. His arm was twisted and he had to come up with being the one to find her or they would have been there all damn day looking for her!

    Is it any wonder Chief Skolar felt the necessity to get the true story out!?
  17. heymom

    heymom Member

    Would John have wanted to go to Atlanta right after "finding" JonBenet's body, if his son had done this deed? John's behavior is just so suspicious, and being the narcissist that he is, would he have been so anxious to get the heck out of there if anyone else had done it? I don't get the feeling John was very close to Burke, not a fatherly relationship with his son.
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 23, 2012
  18. Elle

    Elle Member

    It was strange enough John Ramsey was planning on taking off after his daughter was found dead? His behaviour was strange. The police thought this too!

    John Ramsey was a cool calculated businessman who didn't seem to let his daughter's death prevent him from continuing to be the top dog in his business and make sure the $$$ kept coming in.

    You could be right about him being a father who never gave his son much attention; all the more reason for Burke being the pushed aside kid while his sister JonBenét revelled in the attention. Anger in anyone can rise unnecessarily so. I'm sure we have all seen it!
  19. Elle

    Elle Member


    Does Chief Skolar mention anything in his book about what weapon may have been used for JonBenét's head injury? If so, could you please post it! TIA
  20. heymom

    heymom Member

    I'm not sure I understand, are you saying if John Ramsey had wanted to, he could have just strangled JonBenet? I believe that whoever killed her, did so in a moment of extreme anger and frustration. I have struggled to figure out which one of the Ramseys did it since I first saw John and Patsy on TV and it was so painfully obvious that they were LYING to us. I really always thought that it would come out and I am still shocked that they got away with it.

    At this moment, what it comes down to for me is this: John Ramsey is all about John Ramsey. He could have gotten away from Patsy and Burke, if either of them had done this - and I do think he would have pointed the finger at them if he could have, without somehow implicating himself. In other words, he had the most to lose if JonBenet had been taken to the hospital, I think he was the abuser.

    Oh, I don't know, I get whirled around in my head with this case, going back and forth and forth and back! :hypno:

    All I really know is that JonBenet was being abused and one of the 3 in the house killed her that night. And Patsy helped cover it up.
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