Jim Kolar – 45 minute video discussing the JonBenet Ramsey Case

Discussion in 'Justice for JonBenet Discussion - Public Forum' started by cynic, Dec 3, 2012.

  1. koldkase

    koldkase FFJ Senior Member

    You know you love it.

    And Elle has sweetly provided us with another tool to strengthen our S & M bond! She's so helpful! Luv you, Elle! :heart:

  2. koldkase

    koldkase FFJ Senior Member

    Good catch, wombat.

    Except...not so fast.... It may not be that easy.

    I know standards for the sizes of lumber have changed over the last century. Checking out that rather rough, weathered wood on the porch and steps, I'm not sure how long it's been there.

    Looking at the structure behind JB, I also can't draw any conclusions about the age of the building. The sign says "Antiques," but the plank siding could easily be added later...and in fact does look like the newer materials now used in siding, and not wood. I could be wrong, but it looks quite uniform to me, rather than how aged wood would appear if it had been up a long time.

    Of course, the whole structure could be modern for all I know. It could be "reclaimed" wood on the porch, or maybe it simply aged in harsh weather. If the shot is in Charlevoix, the winters get very cold and snowy there. If in Colorado, same thing. So being from the South, it's a bit out of my experience...and I'm not expert anywhere.

    But the thought about the age did cross my mind, so I looked it up and of course, Wikipedia has the timeline for the changes in the standard sizes of lumber: Lumber's nominal dimensions are given in terms of green (not dried), rough (unfinished) dimensions. The finished size is smaller, as a result of drying (which shrinks the wood), and planing to smooth the wood. However, the difference between "nominal" and "finished" lumber size can vary. So various standards have specified the difference between nominal size, and finished size, of lumber.


    I don't know if this helps, but just some thoughts.

    While I'm loading some FRUIT BASKETS...for a special friend who clearly needs to try out his new toys on his property.

  3. koldkase

    koldkase FFJ Senior Member

    Another issue I find interesting from Kolar's "Meet the Author" lecture, before I forget about it:

    Kolar stated that Beckner "turned the case over to Lacy" [approx. quote] in 2002 when the BPD had requested a "filing" in the JBR case with Hunter's and Lacy's Offices and decided "...they weren't going to spend time on a case if it wasn't going to lead anywhere." [also approx. quote]

    I'm guessing that a "filing" is a request for an indictment or arrest or something?

    I can look it up, but I've been busy, so maybe some of you legally astute peeps know off the top of your head?

    If Kolar is saying TWICE the BPD requested that an indictment be filed, with the appropriate arrest warrant, and two DAs (Hunter and Lacy) refused to file, that's a little FACT we haven't heard before...that I remember, anyway.

    Do I remember that Thomas said he thought the BPD had enough to file a warrant or indictment...but Hunter refused?
  4. cynic

    cynic Member

    There were a few different approaches that I considered, but I settled on the following as being the most visually effective.

    I made the following assumptions.
    The height of the board in the modeling picture is 1.5 inches high.
    The edges that I chose in the measurement of the height are correct given that the top edge is somewhat difficult to determine.
    That perspective did not play a significant factor.

    I used a combination of the following two pictures for the comparison




    The yellow line is my measurement of 1.5 inches to provide scale for the comparison.


    I then matched the scale by resizing the train track to the “yellow line ruler.â€


    Now the tracks are brought into the modeling picture.


    And finally I copied the track pins from the following picture to bring them into “contact†with the marks on the legs in the final picture.


  5. Elle

    Elle Member

    These clever Aussies! I think I'll joion you in a glass of white wine, Wombat. [​IMG]
  6. Elle

    Elle Member

    Congratulations Cynic! These photos prove the train track could have been used.
  7. cynic

    cynic Member

    Thanks Elle, but in the Ramsey investigation, it seems that “proof†is like beauty, it’s in the eye of the beholder. I will say that the RDI eye is 20/20 while IDI seems to have a shattered glass eye, but that is only my slightly biased opinion, of course. :D
  8. Cherokee

    Cherokee FFJ Senior Member

    As the old saying goes ... the IDI are "blind in one eye and can't see out of the other"!

    Thanks for all your work on the train track experiment, Cynic. If the marks on JonBenet's legs ARE from Burke's train tracks, what are we to make of this? Was he in the habit of sadistically jabbing his sister with them until they left red, ugly marks on her skin? If so, was this done to make her go away and leave him alone? Or was it done out of anger if JonBenet pestered him in some way or re-arranged his train set-up?
  9. Elle

    Elle Member

    You know KK, I really think you two could pull it off! I would hire you both if I was making a movie! [​IMG]

    Moab or Cherokee removed the spare set of handcuffs I couldn't get rid of. Thank you, girls!
  10. Elle

    Elle Member

    These impressive munitions remind me of the scene I was just watching in JAG recently, cynic. They would fit in there just fine! This would frighten anyone away! :shadow:
  11. fr brown

    fr brown Member

    If the track in the video has three rails, that might be enough to guarantee that it's O gauge. Most other, if not all other, track seems to be two-railed.
  12. cynic

    cynic Member

    Kolar isreferring to a request to have the DA file charges, which in this case should have been felony murder.

    Here is Hunter after the Grand Jury dog and pony show:
    “I and my prosecution task force believe we do not have sufficient evidence to warrant the filing of charges against anyone who has been investigated at this time,” said the district attorney.
    Steve Thomas, JonBenet: Inside the Ramsey Murder Investigation, page 395

    To be clear, presenting the case to a Grand Jury does not constitute filing charges, that would be something which would follows a “true bill” from the Grand Jury.

    With respect to Steve Thomas, here are some relevant excerpts from his book.

    The district attorney and his top prosecutor, two police chiefs, and a large number of cops, although so at odds on some points that they almost came to blows, all agreed on one thing—that probable cause existed to arrest Patsy Ramsey in connection with the death of her daughter. But due to a totally inept justice system in Boulder, no one was ever put in handcuffs, and the Ramseys were never really in serious jeopardy.
    What follows is the story of how someone got away with murder.

    Steve Thomas, JonBenet: Inside the Ramsey Murder Investigation, page 13

    The threshold for prosecution, as defined by Boulder Deputy DA, Pete Hofstrom, in the early going of the Ramsey case, was as follows:
    “If experts could determine prior vaginal abuse, and we could get an expert to identify the author of the ransom note, then the investigation would have reached a “turning point” toward prosecution.”

    Steve Thomas, JonBenet: Inside the Ramsey Murder Investigation, page 244

    We had reached one of the two levels that Deputy DA Pete Hofstrom had said would mark the turning point toward prosecution—all of the experts we consulted agreed on prior vaginal abuse. We still needed the second point, an expert opinion that Patsy Ramsey wrote the ransom note.
    Steve Thomas, JonBenet: Inside the Ramsey Murder Investigation, page 254

    Commander Beckner shook his head. “We may never file a case, Steve. You need to prepare for the eventuality that this case might not be prosecuted.” That was language straight out of the DA’s office, and it sounded to me as if he were already throwing in the towel.
    Steve Thomas, JonBenet: Inside the Ramsey Murder Investigation, page 258

    After a brief burst of hope, my heart sank as Beckner out-lined their game plan.
    The grand jury might have the sole mission of helping us secure records, testimony, and evidence.
    It might not hear the entire case at all.
    It would not be used to obtain an indictment.
    And if a “runaway” grand jury somehow returned an indictment on its own, the DA would not be obligated to prosecute.
    “It would be a travesty to [indict and] lose a weak case at trial,” said Beckner, echoing the odious no-win outlook.
    I was totally bewildered. They believed they could get an indictment against the prime suspect in a murder that had captivated the interest of the world, and were not going to do so.
    In my opinion, this was just another deception to buy more time to pray for a miracle confession. They seemed willing to go to extraordinary lengths, even to distort the grand jury process, to avoid a courtroom fight with Team Ramsey.

    Steve Thomas, JonBenet: Inside the Ramsey Murder Investigation, page 308

    The DA’s office wanted us to admit openly that the police had “no prosecutable case” before a grand jury was summoned. That would be their life raft, for if things didn’t work out, they could point to those words and say, “See, even the cops said they didn’t have it.”
    “Depends on what you mean by prosecutable,” Detective Gosage observed.
    Commander Beckner instead offered a cautious compromise: “We agree that at this particular point in time, sufficient admissible evidence does not currently exist to reasonably expect a conviction.”
    Beckner also issued a press release stating, “We have worked well with the DA’s office in the last five months, and I expect to work closer with them in the months that follow.” That left the detectives shaking their heads. It was a publicity spin that all was well in Camelot.

    Steve Thomas, JonBenet: Inside the Ramsey Murder Investigation, pages 310 - 311

    With Foster’s conclusion and the panel of doctors who confirmed prior vaginal trauma, we felt we had met the criteria set by Pete Hofstrom for prosecution.
    Steve Thomas, JonBenet: Inside the Ramsey Murder Investigation, page 317

    “Don’t kid yourselves,” Commander Beckner told a couple of detectives. “Don’t think that we will ever actually handcuff somebody in this case. Should there be a charge, you can bet the DA’s office will negotiate a controlled surrender.”
    We were all living for that big payoff, and we weren’t going to get it. If a Ramsey was ever charged, they would surrender with lawyers and bail money and probably never even get out of their street clothes. “Let me tell you, we won’t be putting handcuffs on anybody,” Beckner reiterated. Another reason for not forcing the issue, he said, was that he did not want to get sued over “this thing.”
    He added that although there might be a grand jury, and probable cause existed for an indictment, the case might not get prosecuted. “Can you live with that?” he asked me. I said no, I couldn’t. I told him that under those circumstances, I most likely would leave the police department. I requested a letter of recommendation, and he gave me one.

    Steve Thomas, JonBenet: Inside the Ramsey Murder Investigation, page 326
  13. cynic

    cynic Member

    Here is the quote from Kolar:
    Mary Lacy who was the DA at the time, she was attempting to rebuild her investigative unit, by that time, in 2002, I believe, the Boulder Police Dept handed over the JonBenet Ramsey investigation to the DA’s office. Mark Beckner who was the Chief at the time felt that they were chasing dead-end leads, that it wasn’t going anywhere. They had requested a filing previously with the DA’s office, both with Alex Hunter’s office and, I think, with Mary’s office and they decided that they just didn’t want to spend any more time on the case if it wasn’t going to be prosecuted.
    (@1:57 – 2:30 in the video.)

    It’s entirely possible that Kolar is simply mistaken regarding the request to have Lacy’s office file charges, and although Kolar insists that moving the case over to Lacy was the BPD’s decision, I think there is more to the story.
    I’m certain that the working relationship between the BPD and Lacy with respect to the Ramsey case was abysmal and completely unworkable, far, far worse than the lowest lows under the Hunter administration.
    Therefore, it was probably a case of “I quit†versus “you’re fired.â€
    I find it difficult to believe that Beckner would have requested that Lacy’s office file charges, unless it was simply a pretext to justify “quitting,†because surely he would have known that Lacy would have taken the case files, set her car on fire and driven over a cliff before she would have taken the Ramseys to court.

    Also, in defense of my opinion, consider the following:

    "John and Patsy Ramsey have asked the Boulder County district attorney to find another police agency to investigate fresh leads into their daughter JonBenet's Christmas 1996 slaying."
    "If that doesn't happen, the Ramseys may sue to force the Boulder Police Department to turn its case over to another agency, L. Lin Wood, the family's attorney, said Monday."

    Daily Camera, Matt Sebastian, October 29, 2002

    and ...

    "Wood said he expects to file a civil lawsuit against the Boulder Police Department by the end of the year seeking compensatory damages for the Ramseys, and possibly seeking to transfer the investigation to another law enforcement agency."
    Daily Camera,Katherine Vogt (Associated Press) November 20, 2002

    One month later…

    Based on the above and after consultation with Chief Beckner, I have made a decision to conduct further investigation from within my office, using our investigative resources.
    We will work cooperatively with Lou Smit, the Ramseys, and the Boulder Police Department.
    Please understand that this decision is being made for one reason only, the fact that a violent child murderer is at large.

    Mary Keenan, Letter to Lin Wood, December 20, 2002

    Lin Wood: "Well, I think the timing of the decision on Friday may have been affected by my letter. I did write Mary Keenan. I've been trying for over three and a half years as the attorney for John and Patsy Ramsey to get this case out of the hands of the Boulder Police Department
    NBC Today Show, Katie Couric interview with Lin Wood, Dec 23, 2002

    I find it VERY difficult to believe that the above did not play a HUGE factor in the case ending up in the hands of Mary Lacy.
  14. koldkase

    koldkase FFJ Senior Member

    Oh, cynic, I weep...I weep....

    Thank you so much for those comparisons, all your hard work.

    Of course, I knew the bruises in the modeling photo were made by the same instrument, whatever it was. How many coincidences can people expect to find in this case about which they make ENDLESS excuses for the Ramseys?

    It's a bitter, indefensible nation that creates such an injustice committed by a rich family whose six year old was so brutally murdered by THEM, and sends so many others to prison who did no worse.


    We have no moral high ground, not in Iraq, not in Afghanistan, not anywhere.

  15. Elle

    Elle Member

    Who knows KK (?). It's possible Burke prodded JonBenét with the few train track parts which were not attached to the working track if she was annoying him while he was playing with it.
  16. koldkase

    koldkase FFJ Senior Member

    The BPD should contact the now grown children who used to play with Burke and JonBenet and find out if any of them saw any such jabbing with train tracks or did any "gouging" themselves?

    It could have been something done during innocent play by any of them, then repeated that night, or before that night, as someone else pointed out, somewhere...sorry, can't remember exactly, but thanks for the point.

    Of course, the case is not being investigated by the BPD or any other LE agency now. So that's another piece of evidence about which we'll never know the answers.
  17. Elle

    Elle Member

    Yes, KK! It could have happened with innocent "angry" play!

    It was good you posted the photograph of JB with her legs crossed sitting on the small wooden platform above the steps, showing the two marks similar to the ones on her back, although a bit faded, This put cynic into immediate action. Who knows what the ending will be to this experiment (?).
  18. cynic

    cynic Member

    So true.
    This does potentially introduce yet another disturbing level and one which Kolar is quite likely unaware of.
    There are indications that JonBenet did occasionally push Burke’s buttons and he may well have retaliated with the track (or other available means.)
    It may be nothing, but I wonder if there is something telling in Burke statement about JonBenet being “stabbed.â€
    He (Burke) stated that he thought someone had quietly carried her downstairs to the basement and that person had then either stabbed JonBenét or struck a blow to her head with a hammer.
    James Kolar, Foreign Faction: Who really kidnapped JonBenet? page 354

    You could make Burke behave by telling him no, she said, but sometimes JonBenét had to be given a “time-out†for doing things such as stomping on Burke’s Lego creations.
    Steve Thomas, JonBenet: Inside the Ramsey Murder Investigation, page 50

    The boy remembered his sister as being “nice†but added, “Sometimes she bugged me.†JonBenét would tickle him and rummage through his desk to find candy and baseball cards. Bernhard asked how he was dealing with his sister’s death, and Burke replied, “I kind of forget about it. I just kind of go . . . †and he lapsed into sounds similar to Nintendo beeps.
    Steve Thomas, JonBenet: Inside the Ramsey Murder Investigation, page 123

    Boulder Police investigators, interested in a first-person account of what had transpired in Atlanta, interviewed Kaempfer on the evening of her return from Georgia. She described Burke as being a “very withdrawn little boyâ€, who didn’t care much for hugs and would “rather you leave him alone.â€
    James Kolar, Foreign Faction: Who really kidnapped JonBenet? page 352
  19. cynic

    cynic Member

    I'm glad to help.
    You probably would have preferred to be wrong in this instance.
  20. cynic

    cynic Member

    Kolar says that it was “O†gauge track depicted in the train room video:

    Sergeant Harry Stephens, involved in the surveillance of Jay Elowski described in Chapter One, had retired from Telluride several years prior, but continued to come back and work as a reserve officer during the major music festivals. I was in the process of completing my case synopsis in late September 2006 during one of the fall festivals, and I took the occasion to show Harry a few of the video clips of the Train Room and Stun Gun Power Point slides.
    Around a month later, he called to tell me that he wanted to send me something in the mail. He thought it might be responsible for the twin abrasions located on JonBenét’s back. As promised, about a week later, a rectangular box arrived, and it contained a child’s toy.
    It was a single piece of “O†gauge style train track, the same model of train and track depicted in the crime scene video of the basement play room.

    James Kolar, Foreign Faction: Who really kidnapped JonBenet? page 384
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