John Ramsey's New Book - The Other Side of Suffering

Discussion in 'Justice for JonBenet Discussion - Public Forum' started by Tricia, Jan 18, 2012.

  1. Carol

    Carol Member

    cynic, I'm sorry to report that I caved and watched a rerun of the Huckabee show. Mostly talk of how John's faith helped him deal with the deaths of two daughters.
    Cherokee, didn't the husband/wife team who conducted the DNA test appear on TV and say the DNA exonerated the Ramseys? If so, did they explain that it was just "touch" DNA?
  2. Cherokee

    Cherokee FFJ Senior Member

    Bode Labs basically used the Ramsey case as an infomercial to drum up business for their "touch" DNA testing, which they'd only been doing for three years prior to lab analysis on parts of JonBenet's longjohns. That was the only article of clothing tested; not the oversized panties or JonBenet's top (near the neck), where the stager would have possibly touched her. There were no follow-up tests done, nor was the result replicated by another lab or independently verified. All we have is Bode Labs and Mary Lacy's word for it.

    "Touch" DNA is still not a fully-approved method of scientific inquiry. It is difficult to get a good sample due to contamination because of the nature of "touch" DNA. In addition, the longjohns had been handled by numerous people along the evidence chain. Mary Lacy refused to say if the DNA from any of those people had been tested against the alleged "touch" DNA found by Bode Labs. Her refusal to answer questions and/or release the "touch" DNA results so they could be independently verified speaks volumes.

    Lacy got what she wanted from Bode Labs (alleged DNA that wasn't a Ramsey), and they got what they wanted from Lacy (free publicity that resulted in a business boom).

    What is unsaid in all this is that even IF the "touch" DNA is truly that of another person other than a Ramsey, it doesn't preclude or exhonerate the Ramseys from being involved in JonBenet's death and/or staging of the crime scene. It could be innocent transfer. If the sample was only tested against the DNA of John, Patsy and Burke Ramsey, there are other people who could have touched those longjohns; including friends, LE and lab workers.
  3. rashomon

    rashomon Member

    There has been some discussion here about which Ramsey was the perpetrator; what evidence do you think marks a specific family member as the killer?
    Last edited: Mar 24, 2012
  4. Carol

    Carol Member

    There was a story a couple of years ago (on 48 HOURS, I think) about a murder in Fort Collins, CO, that used Bode Labs to exonerate the alleged killer many years later. At the time of the murder, the man arrested was a teenager. He was arrested when he was in his 20s. He spent many years in prison until Bode found DNA that did not match his. He was released from prison and sued the police department. I always thought this man was not the killer, but after I heard that Bode was involved, I now have my doubts.
  5. cynic

    cynic Member

    If you really want to suffer you might consider watching the Daystar interview.
    It's by far the worst and not for the faint of heart.
  6. cynic

    cynic Member

    Carol, looking at these two posts, it seems that you might be under the impression that the husband and wife team, Richard and Selma Eikelenboom, are affiliated with Bode Labs.
    The Eikelenbooms are Dutch forensic scientists who run Independent Forensic Sciences, also known as the “Crime Farm” in the Netherlands. They offer bloodstain analysis, and DNA testing among their services.
    Richard Eikelenboom recently testified for the defense in the Casey Anthony trial.
    The Eikelenbooms are working on their PhDs at the University of Denver and are looking to open a lab in Colorado.

    Their only involvement in the JonBenet case is the following:
    “Linda Wheeler-Holloway, a former Fort Collins detective who became involved in the Tim Masters DNA-based exoneration case, said she and DNA forensic specialists Richard and Selma Eikelenboom of Holland presented "touch DNA" testing to the Boulder County district attorney's office in October 2006.
    The district attorney's office never followed up, according to Wheeler-Holloway. Until Wednesday, she was unaware that Boulder County had pursued such a method.”

    Lacy has never mentioned this meeting and, as a matter of fact, attributes her knowledge of touch DNA to attending a course at West Virginia University.

    In December of 2002, the Boulder District Attorney’s Office, under Mary T. Lacy, assumed responsibility for the investigation of the JonBenet Ramsey homicide. Since then, this office has worked with the Boulder Police Department to continue the investigation of this crime.
    In early August of 2007, District Attorney Lacy attended a Continuing Education Program in West Virginia sponsored by the National Institute of Justice on Forensic Biology and DNA. The presenters discussed successful outcomes from a new methodology described as “touch DNA.” One method for sampling for touch DNA is the “scraping method.” In this process, forensic scientists scrape a surface where there is no observable stain or other indication of possible DNA in an effort to recover for analysis any genetic material that might nonetheless be present. This methodology was not well known in this country until recently and is still used infrequently

    This course allegedly inspired her to contact Bode Labs to conduct touch DNA testing on evidence selected by her and her investigators

    In October of 2007, we decided to pursue the possibility of submitting additional items from the JonBenet Ramsey homicide to be examined using this methodology. We checked with a number of Colorado sources regarding which private laboratory to use for this work. Based upon multiple recommendations, including that of the Boulder Police Department, we contacted the Bode Technology Group located near Washington, D.C., and initiated discussions with the professionals at that laboratory. First Assistant District Attorney Peter Maguire and Investigator Andy Horita spent a full day with staff members at the Bode facility in early December of 2007.
    The Bode Technology laboratory applied the “touch DNA” scraping method to both sides of the waist area of the long johns that JonBenet Ramsey was wearing over her underwear when her body was discovered.

    The case you are referring to in Fort Collins is the 1987 murder of Peggy Hettrick which was featured on 48 Hours. Tim Masters was eventually exonerated on the basis of touch DNA findings presented by the Eikelenbooms. Masters spent about nine and a half years in prison. Bode was not involved in the Tim Masters case.
    Last edited: Mar 24, 2012
  7. icedtea4me

    icedtea4me Member

    Wow. I had totally forgotten that JR was going to have a new book out. (Then again, I haven't been following the case like I once had.)

    Patsy also makes another striking revelation in her book when she tells us for the first time about her "premonition" of JonBenet's death. On Christmas Eve, she was wrapping the special look-alike Twinn doll for JonBenet. As she opened the box, for a moment Patsy had a striking image of JonBenet lying in a coffin. Patsy further revealed that that year she had decorated the Christmas tree in purple--for the first time ever--symbolic of Christ's death and atonement, because she had been struck by that color during the previous Lent season. Her own explanation for this incident was that she had unconsciously been psychic about JonBenet's impending death. However, a more logical explanation exists: Murder was unconsciously on Patsy's mind as her rage toward JonBenet and John grew. Her fear of JonBenet's death was actually a forbidden wish. This is classic psychoanalytic theory, validated by years of experience. The conscious mind disguises a secret impulse, the wish, as a fear in order to make it acceptable.--Hodges; Who Will Speak for JonBenet, pg 226
  8. Carol

    Carol Member

    cynic, thanks for clearing that up for me (although I think I'm still a little confused). What do you think of the Tim Masters' case? Those violent and disturbing pictures he sketched of women (even when he was an adult) really makes me think he has a deep hatred for women. Of course, that doesn't make him a murderer.
  9. DeeDee

    DeeDee Member

    This quote seems to fit this very well:

    Be careful of your thoughts- they become your words.
    Your words become your actions.
    Your actions become your character.

    People like that will act on their thoughts when they get the chance.
  10. Elle

    Elle Member

    KK may not have seen your post, rashomon. Nice to see you back!

    I think the evidence of the head injury which came first could have been caused by Patsy, in a rage, throwing JonBenét against the bath tub or toilet because of JB's bedwetting. Delmar England and Steve Thomas also thought this if my memory serves me right (?).
  11. Elle

    Elle Member

    rashomon, you were in close touch with Delmar too. We can never forget his garrote analysis. I'm so glad Peggy wrote her book including these.
    btw I correspond with Delmar's nephew. So in a way, I'm still in touch with Delmar.
  12. Niner

    Niner Active Member

    Okay, I know it's the Natl Enquirer... but... it says:

    For those of you have read this book - did he REALLY reveal what happened that night, or is it just the same old stuff??

    I truly doubt he's done that!

    and this:
    Finding JonBenet? They did find her...
  13. rashomon

    rashomon Member

    Elle, your still being in touch with Delmar England's family gives me feeling of comfort.
    It has been two years ago today that Delmar passed away but his commitment to getting justice for JonBenet lives on. It is here on FFJ in his many posts as EasyWriter, it is in Peggy's book and in other place on the net. The truth is out there. A scene was staged by the Ramseys to cover up a domestic homicide.

    Quite a goof by John, isn't it.
    When liars present their concocted stories, is often typical that the parts don't fit together.
  14. DeeDee

    DeeDee Member

    Don't get your hopes up, Elle. I haven't read JR's book, but I am sure it is the same old stuff. It has to be. The alternative is to admit one of them killed her, even accidentally, and they staged the crime scene.
    And we all know that JR has not admitted that.
  15. Elle

    Elle Member

    Two years ago, today, since Delmar died. Oh my! I truthfully didn't realize this, rashomon. Thank you for mentioning it. You are so right! Delmar's work does live on here searching for justice for Jonbenét. He was such a nice man, and in spite of his intelligence he had a great sense of humour. I miss his e-mails.
  16. Elle

    Elle Member

    I'm not into reading any books at the moment DeeDee, so I doubt I will ever read it. It has to be the same old story. I think there was far too much work involved in the cover up for just one person. Patsy Ramsey was not fit enough to do all that was done on her own. It had to have taken them all night to do all they had to do. Write the note; make a fake garrote and carry her body down to the windowless room etc. etc. etc.
  17. zoomama

    zoomama Active Member


    Sorry I don't know how to work the quotes thingy but when John said he "should have called every and anyone he knew...etc." He did call them. We can't know that because he had the phone records destroyed.
  18. Elle

    Elle Member

    Yes, zm! They called their friends to come over, but their friends didn't know they were being invited to a "Contamination Party." The Ramseys knew the more people present on the scene would add to the contamination of the crime scene. They knew exactly just what they were doing! We do know who was present when the police were called to the house! It has all been recorded by those who were present!
  19. Elle

    Elle Member

    I was also thinking today, it really was a very odd situation with young JonBenét Ramsey being murdered on Christmas night. How many pedophiles would have chosen a home like the Ramseys to perform their sickening disgusting act of defiling a young child? I am sure there were many more easier ways for them to perform their disgusting act; especially on Christmas night. This was a house which wasn't as easy accessible as many other homes to find a child to satisfy their disgusting habits! Many other smaller homes - easy to access, which convinces me all the more this murder of little JonBenét Ramsey was an accidental killing!
  20. DeeDee

    DeeDee Member

    NO intruder chooses Christmas Night to break into a home and molest/kidnap/kill a child. That is one night when virtually ALL children are likely to be home with their parents, and parents are likely to be up and about late.
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