JonBenet's Skull Fractures: The Weapon

Discussion in 'Justice for JonBenet Discussion - Public Forum' started by otg, Dec 19, 2012.

  1. Elle

    Elle Member

    So, you're a Lefty hm? I have golf clubs here too, but I'm not going to experiment with them or buy clay. I'll have to wait until all the snow melts and hope I can still hit a golf ball a few yards. I'll leave all the clay experiments to you younger ones! The best o' luck! The very fact you want to do this experiment tells me just how dedicated you are. More power to you!

    About the Ramsey's little dog, I wonder if the neighbours ever gave the Boulder detectives any information as to why they were taking care of it (?).
  2. BOESP

    BOESP Member

    I remember reading somewhere that Patsy said Jacques the bichon was hard to potty train and he always made messes. She said because they often traveled or were not home and because the Joe Barnhill family really loved the dog and often cared for Jacques they let him stay at the Barnhill's.

    Patsy said the only reason they had the dog was because JonBenet wanted him.

    Joe Barnhill adopted the dog after JonBenet died. It is very unusual for a relative to get rid of a dog owned by a child or spouse who has passed away even if the survivor(s) isn't a dog lover. It is seen as a psychological attachment to the deceased (or so says the psychology literature).
  3. OpenMind4U

    OpenMind4U Member

    It's VERY TRUE, BOESP! Looks like remaining Ramseys (including Burke!) had DISattachment syndrome for everything (except JB's tiara for coffin).:no:
  4. BOESP

    BOESP Member


    That family, based on what I've read and seen in their interviews, was dysfunctional in many ways.
  5. otg

    otg Member

    Part-6: The linear fracture.

    I had thought I would go next to narrowing down the size of the cylinder that I believe could have caused the shape and size of the depressed fracture. But I think instead (maybe to wrap up my case for why I think it was a cylinder, or maybe because some have already speculated on the 8” long crack in her skull), I’ll go on first to the linear fracture.

    When I started down this road, it was mostly because of the realization that the depressed fracture was an almost perfectly shaped oval, rather than the rectangle that Dr. Meyer wrote in the AR. (As wengr pointed out at WS, it’s not just an oval, but it’s actually an ellipse as close as we can tell from the only photo we have of it -- the differences being a little more technical than most here probably want to discuss. But we can talk about that later.) I wasn’t thinking about the linear crack and how it might have occurred, or why the good doctor thought he saw a rectangular hole. But when I started thinking about it, I realized why the linear crack happened. Ask yourself, what kind of force would be necessary to cause the skull to crack open with the crack (fracture line) radiating outwardly from the hole as it did.

    Several posters (on one forum or the other) have already referred to head injuries that they, or someone in their family, had at one time or another. As I recall, they all mentioned that they might have had enough force to cause a fracture, but no one had a depressed fracture that resulted in brain damage or death. While this is anecdotal, it speaks to the fact that it takes much more force to cause this type of fracture than a linear fracture, which usually does not require treatment by a doctor. In fact, sometimes a fracture (or even a hairline fracture) may have occurred, but since no serious complications develop, it is not even known that the fracture was there. The human body is an amazing creation, and it is constantly working to repair and heal injuries on its own. Unless there is damage to the brain or underlying membranes or vasculature, the bone itself will heal.

    So why or how, in this case, did the object that caused the depressed fracture also cause the linear fracture?

    Okay, it’s time for another video to illustrate what I believe happened. This one includes another experiment with food, and then an animation I put together showing from three different angles the forces involved in the head blow. I should mention that in the first segment of the animation, you'll have to imagine that you can see through the cylindrical object. Just for the record (and especially for BOESP), I haven’t yet ruled out the possibility that the cylindrical shape is stationary and JonBenet was shoved, or her head pushed into what caused the fracture. Either way, I believe the result would be the same. (We can get into that later.) The point up to here is that whatever caused the fracture was cylindrically shaped where it came in contact with her skull, and it caused both the depressed and the linear fractures.
  6. BOESP

    BOESP Member

    OTG said: "Just for the record (and especially for BOESP), I haven’t yet ruled out the possibility that the cylindrical shape is stationary and JonBenet was shoved...." :toast:

    You are the type person I'd like to see sitting on a jury. :D

    I think either way (she was struck or she struck something), it points to an adult carrying out the injury.

    Another thing. It was "blunt force," not "sharp force." That certainly could be a cylindrical shape (or rounded edge).

    One other thing that interested me in analyzing that injury was the linear fracture was both anterior and posterior from the point of entry. I'm still stumped on thinking about that. Does anyone have any ideas about that?

    Has anyone ever determined that the photo of the injured skull is positively JonBenet's. I hate mentioning this but did Meyer detach her skull in order to make more exacting photographic evidence of the injury?
    Last edited: Feb 26, 2013
  7. BOESP

    BOESP Member

    OTG, I watched your video after I posted my previous post on the linear fracture. I'll wait for the rest of the experiment, but I see some problems (hey ... you knew that was coming didn't ya???? :D)
  8. Elle

    Elle Member


    Thank you for continuing your excellent camera work.

    My first thought years ago was thinking JonBenét could have been thrown against the rounded edge of a toilet bowl or bathtub, with Patsy being in a rage over JonBenét messing up her bed for the umpteenth time. I still think it could have happened this way. I'm not giving this one up yet!
  9. Learnin

    Learnin Member

  10. zoomama

    zoomama Active Member

    OTG that demo with the cylinder vs. the skull was informative. In one way it eliminates the golf club or it's shaft but brings into play the flashlight barrel. Or it still could be the curved edge of the tub or sink or toilet. That wiped down flashlight is just to tempting to let it go entirely. It would need to be wiped down just because it was used and they thought it might contain hair or skin cells or fingerprints. Since no blood was present that they could see it just was wiped down as a precaution.

    I certainly admire the work you are doing and thank you for your efforts on behalf of JonBenet.

    P.S. Regarding the song played in the first clay video, I'm a senior who certainly recognizes it but for the life of me I can't name it. I can barely remember what day it is! LOL
  11. heymom

    heymom Member

    No, I am sorry if I misled you, Elle, by saying that "I" have clubs. I do not play golf, and it's my hubby who is the lefty - the clubs are his. I make fun of him sometimes, but honestly I think lefties are more creative people. I haven't asked him, but I don't think he would mind if I plopped a few of his clubs into some clay or some other surface. It won't harm them; they're meant to whack hard little balls long distances! And, he almost never plays golf since he is still employed more than full-time.
  12. heymom

    heymom Member

    I have to admit, when I heard you start with George Thorogood, I muted the sound. I like the song, but not in that context. So now I went back and listened to the next song. It's a wee bit before my time but it's "Sleepwalk," by Santo and Johnny. Nice pick! I remember hearing this song occasionally as I grew up, although my parents listened to polka (mom) and country western (dad) more than current dance tunes.
  13. Elle

    Elle Member

    I'm sure he won't mind you using them hm. It's all for a good cause!

    Golf putters are used a lot on floors with a carpet. If it was a golf putter which was used, I was wonderng if Burke had been given a golf putter and gadget for Christmas and he could have been playing with it and irritated with JonBenét. Just a thought!(?). Or was it John Ramsey's gift? I was a bit taken aback when John Ramsey enquired if his golf bag had been brought from his home from the Ramsey car raid by Patsy's sister. Taken there by a police car into the bargain. This was a shocker! It would be good to find out the truth!

    Good luck with your clay trial!
  14. otg

    otg Member

    I thought, although it's a bit obscure connection, the title was kind of relevant. After all, if everyone was asleep at 755 on 12/25/96, as the R's have said, then at least two family members (I think the whole family) must be sleepwalkers.

    [I can't believe you muted the sound. You wouldn't believe the extra effort that went into manipulating the length of pics and titles to try and make them somewhat synchronized with the music. But I understand. It wasn't my intent to be irreverent, just relevant.]
  15. otg

    otg Member

    Of course. I look forward to the discussion :toast:. I'm still working my way through this in hopes of trying to pin it down. I just hope you're not going to point out that I didn't include the scalp in the animation, since I couldn't figure out how to add it to the animation. (I was just glad I could get the three layers into the representation of the skull so it looked somewhat realistic.)

    Anyway, I have an idea about where it will end up, but I'm not doing this in order to prove it. If I'm wrong (as I feel now that I was before about it being a putter), I want to know, and I don't mind admitting it.

    :fight: Bring it on! :cheerful:
  16. Elle

    Elle Member

    I had never heard any of this music before! Was surprised to hear it otg, then realized it was associated and knowing how hard you try the words had to relate to what was going on. Am I right? I have come through several music spells with my sons, including Heavy Metal. I survived your music otg!:yay: Off track here! When are you opening your own web site? Liked your lovely white doors and white counter in your kitchen.
  17. BOESP

    BOESP Member

    Thanks Learnin. The six-year-old skull is pliable as well, which might offset the thickness. Angle of attack, amount of pressure, lots of things to consider.

    To me, at this point in studying her injuries, it just seems obvious that an adult had to cause this no matter how it happened.
  18. BOESP

    BOESP Member

    :bowdown:I think your work is fabulous.

    I'm a visual person (even if I have to visualize in my head). If I had read what you said in the videos I'd still be trying to figure it out.

    Don't forget to try cracking the egg on a surface (or maybe you better ask your wife to do it and you watch.) :D
  19. otg

    otg Member

    Easter coming up! Plenty of boiled eggs afterwards! :jumpie:

    Anyone else care to join me in "The Great Boiled Egg Smash and Slaughter Day"? :)

    (Of course, we'll have to designate it to be after Sunday so there are no conflicts or disrespect.)
  20. otg

    otg Member

    What a trooper, Elle -- listening to music you don't care for just to suffer through my ramblings.

    Wifee and I are plain people -- nothing fancy. And neither of us have much of a "flair" for decorating, so our idea of adding colors are the ones between black and white (you know, the greys). :)
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