Judge has ruled Ramsey Grand Jury indictment must be released

Discussion in 'Justice for JonBenet Discussion - Public Forum' started by wombat, Oct 17, 2013.

  1. Tez

    Tez Member


    I saw your fine comments on the Camera's website. I read them before I read your name, and thought, geez, that sounds like KoldKase, and I looked at the name and laughed, because I knew it was you!

    John doesn't want anything released, he doesn't want the world to know the truth about himself and Patsy. When he said release everything, I thought yes, just do it. But, I knew he was just daring them to do something, so that he can file some sort of lawsuit trying to prevent it.

    LeRoy ought to be making some sort of statement soon. He and Lacy will probably have a press conference "reminding" us that Lacy "cleared" the Ramseys.
  2. Cherokee

    Cherokee FFJ Senior Member

    Even though he looks older (despite the plastic surgery), John was born 9 Dec 1943, so he's only 69 years old. He is still living in Charlevoix, Michigan, with his latest wife, Jan.


    Date Aircraft Origin Destination Departed Arrival Duration

    22-Oct-2013 BE35/G New Richmond Rgnl (KRNH) Boyne City Muni (N98) 02:10PM CDT 05:05PM EDT Scheduled

    22-Oct-2013 BE35/G Pierre Rgnl (KPIR) New Richmond Rgnl (KRNH) 11:18AM CDT 01:52PM CDT En Route

    18-Oct-2013 BE35/G New Richmond Rgnl (KRNH) Pierre Rgnl (KPIR) 11:20AM CDT 01:51PM CDT 2:31

    18-Oct-2013 BE35/G Boyne City Muni (N98) New Richmond Rgnl (KRNH) 09:20AM EDT 10:57AM CDT 2:37

    When I last checked a couple of months ago (before doing so today), John was still flying all over the northern Midwest, like he's done since moving back to Charlevoix. He's got to keep those golf courses busy! Paying lots of "greens fees" is John's way of helping the economy.

    It's been interesting to check John's plane log and note he doesn't fly his plane to where Burke or Melinda live. I think I've seen one flight to Burke's location in the past several years, and none to Melinda's. When John was dating Beth Holloway, he flew to the Deep South quite a bit, and he also flew from Michigan to Arkansas many times (before briefly living there), so it's not like he only flies locally.

    Last edited: Oct 22, 2013
  3. wombat

    wombat Member

    Wow, Cherokee, I didn't remember that JR doesn't go where his children are. That is very telling.
  4. Cherokee

    Cherokee FFJ Senior Member

    Yes, it is.
  5. BobC

    BobC Poster of the EON - Fabulous Inimitable Transcript

  6. madeleine_ws

    madeleine_ws Member

    remember this?


    Oct. 14, 1999


    The following statement was issued Wednesday night by John and Patsy Ramsey and their lawyers:

    After almost three years of intense legal scrutiny, with the aid of a grand jury of honest and responsible citizens, it has been determined that there is simply not sufficient information to indict anyone for the murder of JonBenet. We take no satisfaction in this result because a child killer remains free and undetected.

    The Ramsey family lives in a nightmare. There has been no end to the public lynching and speculation which marred this case from the beginning. The public has been misled by a constant stream of attacks and false information from people all too eager for a headline regardless of truth. Those persons who have biased this case by leaking false, incomplete or misleading information are as corrupt as those who report it. The time has come for an accounting of those responsible for this spectacle.

    Experienced detectives were removed from this investigation in 1998. It is our request that this investigation be renewed by returning these skilled investigators to authority. This crime cannot be solved by those who close their minds to any lead which is inconsistent with their biases.

    We thank our many friends and family members for standing by us during this terrible ordeal. We also extend our thanks to the grand jurors who took so much time out of their own lives to assist the investigation.

    There is still much work to be done. We remain committed to finding our daughter's killer. With God's help, we will succeed.
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 23, 2013
  7. Elle

    Elle Member


    I hope you are being paid for all this plane tracking!? You're doing a great job!:)
  8. Cherokee

    Cherokee FFJ Senior Member

    Lies, lies and more lies! For 14 years the Ramseys have lied to us about the Grand Jury results.

    Why am I not surprised? They lied about everything from the beginning, in trying to cover up what really happened to JonBenet.

    It's no wonder John Ramsey is fighting the release of the Grand Jury indictment! It may be the first card to fall in the Ramsey's carefully-constructed HOUSE OF LIES. Once that happens, the whole web of deceit may start to unravel. John Ramsey's 17-year charade of "poor me, I'm so persecuted and innocent" is showing itself for THE FARCE it has always been!
  9. Cherokee

    Cherokee FFJ Senior Member

    Thanks, Elle, but I'm not being paid, and I wouldn't expect to be. :) The tracking is free for the past month or so, and anyone can sign up for an account with the Flight Aware company at the link. It's only if you want the logs going back for a year or more that it costs money. That's why I have to check it every couple of months because the current logs are available without charge.
  10. Tez

    Tez Member

  11. madeleine_ws

    madeleine_ws Member

    what are you saying now John?!


    It appears that the District Attorney, presumably acting at the discretion of the grand jury, prepared a series of possible charges regarding John Ramsey and Patricia Ramsey based on the fact that the child had died and that there was evidence that a sexual assault of the child had occurred," Lowenbach sai.
  12. Tez

    Tez Member

    John is saying, "File something, I paid you big bucks, now get on it!"
  13. otg

    otg Member

    Lot's of discussion going on and information provided at WS. Rather than try to repost it on FFJ, you can read it here to keep up with the latest:


    (Maybe KK will consider coming back too. We miss her. Her absence leaves us all at a loss.)
  14. Cherokee

    Cherokee FFJ Senior Member

    Be still, my heart!

    Of course, there's still time for John to file an injunction and get the indictment release stalled, but maybe he's hoping if he doesn't, the whole thing will die down again.

    John also may not have the money to take on fighting the Colorado courts for an extended period of time. Despite claiming to be a consultant (he had one or two clients), a brief try at PR for a friend's mining operation, and renovating/selling a couple of houses, John hasn't been gainfully employed since he was fired from his job in 1997.

    And all that airplane fuel he burns through is expensive!
    Last edited: Oct 23, 2013
  15. Cherokee

    Cherokee FFJ Senior Member

    More from the link:

    He ruled that only pages signed by the foreman of the grand jury would be considered "official actions" of the grand jury and would thus be releasable.

    John Ramsey had written a letter to Garnett on Sunday saying he objected to the release of the indictment without the entire grand jury record also being released.

    But in the order, Lowenbach said grand jury transcripts and other evidence did not constitute "official action" and would not be released.

    "The court is sympathetic to the position of Mr. Ramsey but has nonetheless concluded that as an 'official action' of the grand jury, the 'indictment' signed by the foreman of the grand jury must be disclosed," Lowenbach wrote. "The request of Mr. Ramsey to release the entire record of the grand jury cannot be granted. Such an action would set a precedent that would impede other grand juries in performing their functions under statute and rule."

    John gambled with his letter to Garnett and lost! He KNEW all of the Grand Jury records, transcripts and evidence CANNOT be made public, so it was easy for him to say "release it all."

    Next up: Garnett's revocation of Lacy's bogus and worthless DNA exoneration!
    Last edited: Oct 24, 2013
  16. wombat

    wombat Member

    Now I know what I am doing this weekend...where's the champagne smiley again?

    Like they are saying over on websleuths, all the "but they were exonerated" and "but there was small foreign faction DNA" will be repeated ad nauseum, but something that shows that the Ramsey's have always lied is going to be in our hands. Yay, to say the least.
  17. RiverRat

    RiverRat FFJ Sr. Member Extraordinaire (Pictured at Lef


    This IS Happening!!!

    This is NOT Another False Alarm!!! Bees ~ Brush off the dust quick, the moment we have been practicing for is within Sight!!!

    :cloud9: I am NOT Dreaming, I am NOT Dreaming!!!

    Yessssss ~
  18. BOESP

    BOESP Member

    I'm going to speculate why John Ramsey wanted all the paperwork released.

    If only foreman-signed indictment pages are made public then John looks just as guilty as Patsy. If all the paperwork is released I'd speculate the evidence presented to the Grand Jury pointed to Patsy with John there only in the capacity of keeping things covered up once he knew what happened. In this pretend scenario John wants the main blame on Patsy and he can plead and beg mercy for having supported his sick wife, and maybe his son. After all, he wanted to keep what was left of his family together even if Patsy was the responsible.

    By withholding evidence from the public he looks as guilty as Patsy and probably looks the most like the perpetrator of the sexual assault/violence.

    The above is just a pretend scenario but it sounds good to me. :angeldev:
  19. koldkase

    koldkase FFJ Senior Member

    Well, I'll be busy eating CROW for the NEXT HOUR...in honor of Judge Lowenbach, I will chew it with a smile.

    An honest judge in Colorado...what a concept!

    So we can thank Brennan and his group of reporters who sued for this record, Garnett for clearing the way by letting the judge make the ruling so there can be no question of legality, and now Judge Lowenbach for being a decent human being who is willing to do his job with integrity.

    As Chero says, there may still be a few payoffs up John Ramsey's sleeve, so I still can't pop the champagne until we see what Friday brings.

    Oh heck, sure I can! This case hasn't a good day in the Halls of Justice in Boulder in a very long time.

    We may never get another.

    So CARPE DIEM! :toast:

    Attached Files:

    Last edited: Oct 24, 2013
  20. koldkase

    koldkase FFJ Senior Member

    Awww...I figured y'all were grateful to get rid of an old grouch like me.

    I took a break so I wouldn't start a riot in familiar delicate Southern Belle fashion, but now I'm feeling guilty since you said this so kindly. :blush:
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