Judge has ruled Ramsey Grand Jury indictment must be released

Discussion in 'Justice for JonBenet Discussion - Public Forum' started by wombat, Oct 17, 2013.

  1. Cherokee

    Cherokee FFJ Senior Member

    Ha ha ha, I can think of a few more "d" adjectives, and quite a few "non-d's"!

    You are so right. If nothing else, at least this exposes the many lies the Ramseys and their Spin Team have told through the years.
  2. ACandyRose

    ACandyRose Super Moderator

    Thank you Rat !!

    That Grand Jury web page is so old. I haven't updated it since 2008!!

    But it does document the "Chain of Events" from 1997 to 2006.

    I'm happy that I was able to preserve so much of this case history so we can reference back.

    ACR :genie:
  3. Cherokee

    Cherokee FFJ Senior Member


    If Lin Wood's lips are moving, he's lying. Just reading the NAME "Lin Wood" makes me want to retch. He wouldn't know THE TRUTH if it hit smacked him upside the head with a tire iron!

    Hmmm ... sounds like a good idea!
  4. otg

    otg Member

    And a big AMEN to that! Thank you so much, Tricia. And thank you, Cherokee, for the reminder.
  5. Cherokee

    Cherokee FFJ Senior Member

    ACR, it is SO GOOD TO SEE YOU!

    I cannot thank you enough for everything you have done to document the Ramsey case on your website. You are a treasure!

  6. madeleine_ws

    madeleine_ws Member

    I was thinking about the same thing yesterday and wanted to comment but didn't know how exactly to put it. (re ML using the wrong TERM in the first place!)

    second,why did she "exonerate" only the Ramsey's??it's not like they were the only people on the suspect list,no??why didn't she also clear FW's name,Santa Bill's name,etc??
  7. madeleine_ws

    madeleine_ws Member

    this stupid "exoneration" thing makes me bang my head whenever I hear about it.It was wrong on so many levels.

    Even IF the DNA proves (it's just a possibility out of many anyway) that there was another person at the scene that night (how can you even prove WHEN it was deposited,anyway...) how the heck does ML know that it wasn't a Ramsey accomplice(friend,doctor,dunno,you name it,lots of possibilities since the phone records are "missing")????since the REST of the evidence points at THEM!

    ETA:by accomplice I mean someone called over AFTER the fact,accomplice in the staging/cover-up/crime scene cleaning, not murder
  8. Cherokee

    Cherokee FFJ Senior Member

    And why doesn't the media, who so blindly swallowed Lacy's "exoneration" ASK THESE SAME QUESTIONS?!!!!

    Anyone with critical-thinking skills can see the SAME HOLES in Lacy's actions, SO WHY DOESN'T ANYONE WITH PRESS CREDENTIALS say that and push for a revocation of that worthless piece of paper that John Ramsey is hiding behind?!
  9. ACandyRose

    ACandyRose Super Moderator

    Amen !!
  10. madeleine_ws

    madeleine_ws Member

    and please forgive me for repeating myself ...but did our good dr.Beuf give a DNA sample?I know they tested lots of Ramsey friends,etc but since there is no list I will keep asking....
  11. RiverRat

    RiverRat FFJ Sr. Member Extraordinaire (Pictured at Lef

    Ironic isn't it...I don't think I was ever this excited as a kid on Christmas Eve...

    Out of all the holidays to use as the Perfect (Murder, Perfect Town) Comparison to My Feelings right now ~ I am as Fan of Irony though so works for me!
  12. madeleine_ws

    madeleine_ws Member

    they don't do research no more,it's not about the truth anymore it's about the rating and the ads...this is the "copy/paste" generation of "journalists":puke:
  13. Cherokee

    Cherokee FFJ Senior Member

    So right, and I've said the same thing myself!

    Thank God for the few left like Charlie Brennan!!! Now THAT MAN is a real journalist and a light shining in the darkness of today's dumbed-down, celebrity-chasing media.
  14. madeleine_ws

    madeleine_ws Member

    and it's not only the younger ones...I was amazed that some old school ones (A.Cooper,B.Walters,etc) kissed JR's @ss when they invited him to talk about his new "masterpiece" (TOSOS)...YUK
  15. Carol

    Carol Member

    Charlie Brennan was just interviewed on FOX News. Then Judge Andrew Napolitano, FOX's legal expert, was interviewed. He thought it was strange that the grand jury voted to indict the Ramseys when grand juries basically do what the prosecutor wants them to do. And the prosecutor obviously did NOT want the Ramseys indicted.
  16. ACandyRose

    ACandyRose Super Moderator

    Reviewing my Ramsey Grand Jury web page, I particularly like this part:

    Steve Thomas Deposition (Atlanta, Georgia) 09/21/2001
    Wolf vs Ramsey Civil Action File No. 00-CIV-1187(JEC)

    (Grand Jury Discussion)

    17 Q. Did you ever receive any
    18 information about grand jury testimony or
    19 evidence in the case?
    20 A. Never.


    7 Q. Do you have any other documents
    8 about this investigation, other than those
    9 documents? Do you?
    10 A. Oh, I'm sorry. If I understand
    11 the question correctly, no, as I said, not
    12 that I recall because post-August '98 began
    13 the grand jury. And certainly I don't have
    14 any information from the grand jury room.


    4 Q. (BY MR. WOOD) You said very
    5 clearly to Mr. Hoffman you do not know the
    6 state of the evidence with respect to the
    7 JonBenet Ramsey investigation, as you sit here
    8 today, the state of the evidence as of
    9 September 2001, true?
    10 A. After leaving the police
    11 department, yes, that concluded my official
    12 participation. I have followed the case
    13 through the media, but as far as being privy
    14 to anything that occurred in the grand jury
    15 or continued evidence testing, I'm unaware of
    16 that.
    17 Q. You knew the state of the evidence
    18 as it existed in the case as of March 2001,
    19 true?
    20 A. That was during the period which
    21 -- no, the grand jury had concluded -- no, I
    22 -- no, I wasn't inside the police department
    23 reviewing evidence at that time either.
    24 Q. But what you did know and you had
    25 actual knowledge of was that a grand jury had

    1 met for some 13 months and had not issued an
    2 indictment against John and Patsy Ramsey,
    3 right?
    4 A. I don't know that. Do you know
    5 that?
    6 Q. Sir, was an indictment issued? Do
    7 you have information there was an indictment
    8 of my clients that nobody has bothered
    9 telling them or me about?
    10 MR. HOFFMAN: Actually, Lin,
    11 Patrick Burke has information that he should
    12 have told you about which he announced to the
    13 media that according to him the grand jury
    14 actually took a straw poll. Why don't you
    15 ask Patrick Burke.
    16 MR. WOOD: Let me tell you,
    17 Darnay, that won't count against my time.
    18 MR. HOFFMAN: Okay.
    19 MR. WOOD: But you're right, it
    20 was a straw poll; it was a vote not to
    21 indict. Thank you for bringing something to
    22 my attention that I already knew.
    23 MR. HOFFMAN: Okay.

    24 Q. (BY MR. WOOD) Would you answer
    25 my question, sir? It's pretty simple. You

    1 know that no indictment was issued by the
    2 grand jury, true?
    3 A. I don't know what the grand jury
    4 did.
    5 Q. I'm not asking you what they did
    6 in terms of whether they voted or not, sir.
    7 MR. DIAMOND: I think he's asking
    8 you --
    9 Q. (BY MR. WOOD) I'm asking you
    10 whether they issued an indictment to indict
    11 John and/or Patsy Ramsey?
    12 MR. DIAMOND: -- are you aware of
    13 any public report of such an indictment.
    14 A. No.
    15 Q. (BY MR. WOOD) You also know that
    16 after the grand jury was dismissed that Alex
    17 Hunter stated publicly that all seven of the
    18 prosecutors in the case unanimously agreed
    19 that this was not a case where they felt
    20 that evidence was sufficient to justify at
    21 that time a prosecution. You know that, too,
    22 don't you, sir?
    23 A. That Hunter --
    24 Q. Made that statement publicly?
    25 A. Made the statement that his

    1 advisors supported that decision?
    2 Q. Seven prosecutors, not his
    3 advisors, seven prosecutors, you know that,
    4 don't you, sir?
    5 A. I know that statement was made.


    24 Q. Do you know of any prosecutor who
    25 is familiar with the evidence that has

    1 concluded that the evidence shows beyond a
    2 reasonable doubt that Patsy Ramsey is guilty
    3 of the homicide of her daughter?
    4 A. No, because the prosecutors privy
    5 to that evidence are bound by grand jury
    6 secrecy and none have violated that with me.


    13 Q. Why did you not, when you had old
    14 Barry Scheck, a nice guy, Henry Lee, all
    15 these VIPs there, why did you not include the
    16 intruder evidence in the presentation to
    17 objectively give those individuals both sides
    18 of the case?
    19 A. Because the Boulder Police
    20 Department's position was, as I understood it
    21 and understand it, the VIP presentation was
    22 to show that there was sufficient probable
    23 cause to arrest Patsy Ramsey and for the DA's
    24 office to move it forward through the use of
    25 a grand jury with that end in mind.

    1 Q. Of an indictment which is a
    2 finding by a grand jury of probable cause to
    3 charge or arrest, right?
    4 A. Yes.
    5 Q. You've been in the business long
    6 enough to know that the grand jury can, as
    7 they say, indict a ham sandwich, right? It
    8 doesn't take much evidence to indict or
    9 arrest, does it, sir?
    10 A. My understanding of probable cause
    11 is facts and evidence and circumstances that
    12 are within the knowledge of a police officer
    13 that would lead a reasonable person to
    14 conclude that, A, a crime was committed and
    15 B, that a particular individual was involved.
    16 Sometimes, depending on the case,
    17 that can sometimes be a great threshold.


    24 Q. You state in your book there were
    25 27 reasons for a grand jury and it's at page

    1 309. But my question is, were those 27
    2 reasons for a grand jury correlate to the 27
    3 remaining tasks that were referred to in that
    4 June '98 press release by the Boulder Police
    5 Department?
    6 A. Let me look at 309 real quickly.
    7 308, 309?
    8 Q. It's on 309 and I've got a copy
    9 of that press release where he says there
    10 were 27 tasks remaining. I'm just wondering
    11 if that's the correlation.
    12 A. Oh, if I understand you correctly,
    13 did these 27 reasons correspond with the 27
    14 tasks left on the to-do list?
    15 Q. Yes.
    16 A. No.


    6 Q. What I want to know is if you can
    7 date that for me? "'The case is not being
    8 handled well,' said the CASKU agents."
    9 A. Shortly before I believe the
    10 Ramseys' April 30, 1997 interview.
    11 Q. Can you identify the three agents
    12 for me?
    13 A. Supervisory special agent Bill
    14 Hagmaier, special agent Mike Morrow, and their
    15 partner and the third special agent, his name
    16 just escapes me at the moment.
    17 Q. And those three agents prior to
    18 April 30, 1997 said that the intruder theory
    19 was absurd, Hofstrom needs to act like a
    20 prosecutor not a public defender. Don't do
    21 tomorrow's interview and get a grand jury as
    22 soon as possible, right?
    23 A. Yes.
  17. RiverRat

    RiverRat FFJ Sr. Member Extraordinaire (Pictured at Lef

    Isn't that soooo annoying, ACR?! Suing, Steve ~ Grilling Steve like that on the grounds of the GJ NOT signing an Indictment but knowing they did ~ How Low Can Ya Go ~ :snake:

    I read somewhere that Hunter has No Comment ~ on some legal grounds that he wants to hide behind and pretend he is a law abiding citizen & officer of the court ~ again ~ I refer back to Said Serpent....:snake:
  18. Tez

    Tez Member

    Hey RR! I saw that this morning...Yep, what a fine time to be quiet...LOL
  19. RiverRat

    RiverRat FFJ Sr. Member Extraordinaire (Pictured at Lef

    Does he NOT know we are sitting here waiting, Tezzie?!?! Give us something, even if it's something simple enough like a Hunter Fairy Take to hit out of the ballpark without breaking a nail!!!
  20. BOESP

    BOESP Member

    Gumby, you rock. :highfive:

    P.S. You left out "dirtbag."
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