Keenan vs. Santa

Discussion in 'Justice for JonBenet Discussion - Public Forum' started by Spade, Nov 9, 2003.

  1. Spade

    Spade Member

    This is the 1998 interview that I like to call Santa Bill goes under the bus:

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    18 JUNE 25TH, 1998
    25 MARY KEENAN: I just have a list of
    1 questions.
    2 DAN SHULER: Because you were writing
    3 those down. What's the purpose of this whole
    4 thing? Okay, the purpose is we want to talk to
    5 you to gain additional information about Bill
    6 McReynolds, which has kind of peaked our interest
    7 a bit. And we want to do everything we can to
    8 solve this case for you.
    9 So what we'd like to do is, Mary Keenan has a
    10 lot of questions that she has after viewing the
    11 interviews about Bill and I know you have some
    12 concerns yourself about Bill, and we'd like to
    13 bring this out in the open so we don't forget
    14 what we're doing and what we're focusing on. So
    15 we don't forget any minute item. All right.
    16 You want to just talk a little bit about Bill to
    17 start?
    18 JOHN RAMSEY: Well, we met him on the
    19 mall around three years before December '96. He
    20 was walking around in a Santa suit passing out
    21 candy. We stopped and talked.
    22 PATSY RAMSEY: We were in a (INAUDIBLE)
    23 deli, he came in.
    24 JOHN RAMSEY: Is that -- okay.
    25 PATSY RAMSEY: We were having
    1 breakfast.
    2 And we talked. I believe he was employed by the
    3 downtown Boulder Chamber of Commerce or something
    4 to be on the mall and greeting people and
    5 whatever.
    6 JOHN RAMSEY: And, I don't know that it
    7 was the same year, I don't know that it was, that
    8 we invited him to our house.
    9 PATSY RAMSEY: Yeah, I think so; '94,
    10 for a Christmas party.
    11 JOHN RAMSEY: Okay. And the whole
    12 procedure was, he would come in and the kids would
    13 all be there. And we'd (INAUDIBLE) and Patsy had a
    14 list of gifts that he's pass out. He usually had a
    15 little saying or something kind saying, something
    16 silly: oh, you've been really good, did this, or
    17 you've been bad, you did this. I guess we had
    18 gifts for the adults sometimes.
    19 So he would sit and give out these gifts, and the
    20 kids would sit around and he'd read them a story.
    21 PATSY RAMSEY: He also came to adult
    22 parties. We had tons of pictures sitting Santa's
    23 knee, playing that whole role.
    24 DAN SHULER: Would that be at the same
    25 time or at different times?
    1 PATSY RAMSEY: Well, some Christmases
    2 we had three or four different parties and one
    3 might be primarily adults, and he would come just
    4 to be part of kind of like a little feature at the
    5 party, and all the ladies would sit on his knee
    6 and get their picture taken and whatnot.
    7 And then typically closer to Christmas, like
    8 Christmas Eve, like in the year of '96 , we'd have
    9 just a few close friends who had children. And we
    10 had Santa come and we'd do the naughty and nice
    11 list, and the gifts and all that.
    12 JOHN RAMSEY: But JonBenet, of course,
    13 was fascinated with him because he was Santa Claus
    14 and I remember one year she led him around the
    15 house and showed him a bunch of things, I don't
    16 know what. But she just took him by the hand and
    17 led him around.
    18 '95, I guess we called him and invited him back
    19 for the regular party. '96 we weren't going to
    20 have a party. He called us, I guess you probably
    21 heard that, and said that Charles Kuralt was doing
    22 a special on him and he wanted to bring him to our
    23 party because it was one of his favorites. And
    24 will we have it.
    25 PATSY RAMSEY: I mean, I really hadn't
    1 planned on it, but you know, he'd do it for free,
    2 and I said, "I suppose I could. So we decided on
    3 the 23rd. He suggested we have it earlier because
    4 he had another engagement that evening.
    5 JOHN RAMSEY: And Mrs. Claus came with
    6 him on that visit. That's the only time she's been
    7 to our house.
    8 PATSY RAMSEY: Yes.
    9 JOHN RAMSEY: I remembered thinking
    10 that
    11 she was really kind of --
    12 PATSY RAMSEY: Drippy.
    13 JOHN RAMSEY: -- a drip. She really
    14 wasn't with it. She was just there, almost acting
    15 kind of irritated to be there. Didn't smile much
    16 at all.
    17 PATSY RAMSEY: I thought she was there
    18 because he was he --
    19 JOHN RAMSEY: He came in and said he
    20 was frail and his wife was there to help him.
    21 DAN SHULER: Was he frail?
    22 JOHN RAMSEY: Not if he was in New York
    23 a week later and off to Europe a few weeks later.
    24 PATSY RAMSEY: No.
    25 JOHN RAMSEY: I mean, I don't think.
    1 The hypothesis in my mind was, it was all a big
    2 act.
    3 DAN SHULER: What year was it that
    4 JonBenet took him around the house and showed him
    5 the house?
    6 PATSY RAMSEY: Well, it was the
    7 preceding year of this; so it would have been
    8 probably '95.
    9 JOHN RAMSEY: Did she take him around
    10 at all that, maybe, in '96? Could you remember?
    11 PATSY RAMSEY: No, because he wasn't
    12 there very long. He just came to the living room
    13 there and sat in that chair.
    14 JOHN RAMSEY: Where was Mrs. Claus?
    15 PATSY RAMSEY: She was behind him,
    16 there.
    17 MARY KEENAN: What was the story with
    18 Charles Kuralt and did that materialize?
    19 PATSY RAMSEY: They never came to our house.
    20 However, there was an article in the Camera about
    21 -- cause I thought, when he called about that, I
    22 thought: that's a little strange. I mean, why did
    23 they pick him of all the Santas in the world or
    24 whatever. And then, lo and behold, it was in the
    25 paper that --
    1 JOHN RAMSEY: Well, he might have told
    2 the paper the same thing.
    3 PATSY RAMSEY: I don't know. We can go
    4 back and look at that timeframe for the paper
    5 article.
    6 JOHN RAMSEY: In December '96.
    7 MARY KEENAN: Do you remember what you
    8 paid him and how you paid him?
    9 PATSY RAMSEY: Check. Usually $20, $25,
    10 $20 to $50.
    11 MARY KEENAN: What did you know about
    12 his surgery?
    13 PATSY RAMSEY: Just this letter that
    14 said
    15 he had open-heart surgery. And then I got this
    16 when we got home for the lake that year. And
    17 subsequently, a few, I don't know some days later,
    18 I stuck my head into the little bakery, you know,
    19 down there at Basemar Shopping Center, where is
    20 son is a baker. And I said, "How's your dad? How
    21 was his surgery?" And he said they'd almost lost
    22 him a couple of times. That it was pretty tense.
    23 MARY KEENAN: And had it been by
    24 Christmas or had it been several months, three or
    25 four months?
    1 JOHN RAMSEY: Well, it says right here,
    2 "I'm going into, next Tuesday, St. Joseph
    3 Hospital," and it's August 23rd. So way August.
    4 DAN SHULER: So, if I'm understanding
    5 right, the first time he was in your home was
    6 the Christmas season of '94?
    7 PATSY RAMSEY: Um hmm.
    8 DAN SHULER: He returned in '95, then
    9 again in '96. Now, was he in your home any other
    10 times from '94 through '96?
    11 PATSY RAMSEY: Well, '94, two days
    12 after Christmas -- I remember this because it was
    13 after this was the year we had the big Christmas
    14 tour of our house. Okay. And he showed up at the
    15 door a couple days after Christmas with a small
    16 gingerbread house which the bakery, his son, had
    17 made. And he knew how much we loved Christmas, and
    18 he wanted to give this to us.
    19 So I invited him in. I said, "How am going to
    20 explain that you're here to the kids." And he
    21 told the children that he was Santa's brother who
    22 lived in Netherlands and took care of the reindeer
    23 throughout the year.
    24 DAN SHULER: Okay.
    25 PATSY RAMSEY: And that Santa said what
    1 a good time he had had at our house and all that
    2 stuff.
    3 DAN SHULER: Did JonBenet see him when
    4 he brought the gingerbread house at that time?
    5 PATSY RAMSEY: Um hmm. Yeah.
    6 DAN SHULER: And what was her reaction
    7 to him?
    8 PATSY RAMSEY: You know, not like --
    9 because he wasn't like Santa Claus at that time.
    10 He looked sort of kind of like Santa Claus but.
    11 They didn't --
    12 DAN SHULER: And did you tell her that
    13 story?
    14 PATSY RAMSEY: Yeah. He told Burke and
    15 JonBenet.
    16 DAN SHULER: Did Burke still believe in
    17 Santa Claus at that time?
    18 PATSY RAMSEY: Yeah.
    19 DAN SHULER: And, what about later?
    20 PATSY RAMSEY: Well, --
    21 DAN SHULER: When did he start --
    22 PATSY RAMSEY: We've never really even
    23 discussed that. Cause I've always said, when they
    24 quit believing, he'd stop coming.
    25 DAN SHULER: Oh.
    1 PATSY RAMSEY: So it was to their advantage
    2 to continue to believe.
    3 JOHN RAMSEY: Plus you get gifts from
    4 Santa and gifts from mom and dad.
    5 PATSY RAMSEY: He did too. As a matter of
    6 fact, sometimes I'd say, "Well, what did you get
    7 me?"
    8 DAN SHULER: Did you ever run into him
    9 outside your house during Christmas season:
    10 downtown, in the mall, wherever he might be
    11 working?
    12 PATSY RAMSEY: I saw him at a Christmas
    13 parade. He was at a Christmas parade.
    14 DAN SHULER: Which year?
    15 PATSY RAMSEY: It would have been '95
    16 probably. It would have been '95.
    17 DAN SHULER: Was JonBenet in the Christmas
    18 parade?
    19 PATSY RAMSEY: She was in the Christmas
    20 parade.
    21 DAN SHULER: And what was that contact like?
    22 PATSY RAMSEY: I mean I just saw him on the
    23 float; he waved or something.
    24 DAN SHULER: Did he come over and see you,
    25 or did he come over and see JonBenet?
    2 DAN SHULER: Did you notice, what you were
    3 to think back on now, as any unusual affection
    4 that he had towards her?
    5 PATSY RAMSEY: Well, this '96 Christmas when
    6 he was there telling the story about, well his
    7 rendition of Christmas sort of, and how -- and I
    8 remember sort at the conclusion, sort of, and I
    9 mean (INAUDIBLE) this little story he spins, you
    10 know. But I remember him specifically, and here in
    11 a room full of children, say, "JonBenet, where is
    12 Santa," and I'm not sure if he said, "Where is
    13 Santa," or "Where is Christmas kept all year long,
    14 JonBenet?" And she said, "In your heart." And he
    15 said, "That's right."
    16 And I thought: well, how did she know where it was
    17 kept. Yeah. I mean, it was kind of like something
    18 he had told her before. I mean, it just kind of
    19 hit me at that moment. He was like: JonBenet, and
    20 she was like: in your heart.
    21 DAN SHULER: (INAUDIBLE) the sprinkle
    22 gesture. I think that John had referred to it was
    23 kind of like the dust that make the reindeer fly,
    24 is how he phrased it?
    25 PATSY RAMSEY: Well, Santa has this glitter
    1 in his beard. And I think that prompted JonBenet.
    2 She knew that he kept glitter in the craft shelf
    3 in the basement there. I think she took him
    4 downstairs to give him the bottle of this Disney
    5 fairy dust to sprinkle.
    6 And we had several bottles of it because I think
    7 they used it for some promotion at the office one
    8 year. Cause you brought a couple bottles home from
    9 Frontier or something like that. Cause you and my
    10 dad brought a bottle over. We had a couple of
    11 them, two or three. And I think she may have given
    12 him another one this '96 Christmas.
    13 DAN SHULER: Could you describe that bottle?
    14 PATSY RAMSEY: It's just like a little genie
    15 bottle, like a little --
    16 DAN SHULER: Hourglass?
    17 PATSY RAMSEY: Well, not even like a an
    18 hourglass, but like a vinegar curette or
    19 something, sort off.
    20 DAN SHULER: Wider at the bottom?
    21 PATSY RAMSEY: Wider at the bottom, tapers
    22 through the top, cork in the top.
    23 DAN SHULER: That's what Burke had described
    24 to me when we were talking.
    25 PATSY RAMSEY: Yeah.
    1 DAN SHULER: Did she give that to him on the
    2 23rd?
    3 PATSY RAMSEY: I believe she gave him a
    4 second bottle then. Because then at the memorial
    5 service, Father Rol asked, I think, and I mean I
    6 was pretty out of it, but I think he asked if
    7 anyone wanted to say anything or had any fond
    8 memories, or something, of JonBenet and up walks
    9 up Santa Claus, as Bill McReynolds at this point.
    10 He's not in red and white. And I can't remember
    11 what he said.
    12 JOHN RAMSEY: I don't remember either. We
    13 have a video of it, but (INAUDIBLE) of giving us
    14 back this bottle of fairy dust. We aught to be
    15 sure you have that video so you can look at it. I
    16 assume that Ellis' office has it?
    18 (INAUDIBLE)?
    20 UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: Jennifer believes,
    21 in fact, that it has been turned over. But we'll
    22 check and be sure.
    23 JOHN RAMSEY: Okay.
    24 DAN SHULER: The presents; how would
    25 you give the presents to him to pass out to the
    1 children?
    2 PATSY RAMSEY: I left them in a kind of a
    3 garbage bag out by the front door hidden. And then
    4 he would come fill his bag with them so he had
    5 them as he came in the door.
    6 DAN SHULER: And what about the prearranged
    7 notes? Would he rehearse through? Did you
    8 (INAUDIBLE) to him?
    9 PATSY RAMSEY: No, I would just float
    10 that to him. I mean It was just written out and
    11 he'd just read it.
    12 DAN SHULER: You mean like it was just
    13 Santa's list?
    14 PATSY RAMSEY: Right.
    15 DAN SHULER: Would he bring like any small
    16 items himself to pass out to the children other
    17 than what you provided for him?
    18 PATSY RAMSEY: It seems like he may have
    19 brought candy canes, or had asked me to have candy
    20 canes to give to them. Seems like I remember candy
    21 canes.
    22 DAN SHULER: If you happen to think of
    23 anything like that, let us know, like later on.
    24 Cause we have an interest in that. What about to
    25 any of her pageants that she had? Would he ever
    1 show up to any of those?
    2 PATSY RAMSEY: No, I never saw him.
    3 DAN SHULER: Would he ever show up to any
    4 other functions of hers that you were aware of?
    5 PATSY RAMSEY: No. Well, he kind of stood
    6 out in a crowd, so he wouldn't have been able to
    7 hide. I never saw him.
    8 DAN SHULER: Did he ever go to any school
    9 Christmas pageant or anything like that? Now was
    10 he the Santa Claus of the Boulder theater?
    11 PATSY RAMSEY: I'm not sure. Like that
    12 Christmas pageant they had there?
    13 DAN SHULER: Yes.
    14 PATSY RAMSEY: I don't remember. I'm don't
    15 know.
    16 JOHN RAMSEY: I don't know for sure, but
    17 that kind of --
    18 PATSY RAMSEY: They probably tape of that, I
    19 know.
    20 JOHN RAMSEY: But that kind of rings a bell
    21 in my mind.
    22 PATSY RAMSEY: Could have been.
    23 DAN SHULER: when he had the children
    24 passing out presents and things like that would he
    25 whisper anything into their ear or anything as he
    1 was passing out presents, or would he have them
    2 sit on his lap? How would he pass them out?
    3 PATSY RAMSEY: Well, he usually sat
    4 stationery in the chair and he had this bag and
    5 they were gathered kind of at the foot of his --
    6 we probably have pictures of it -- and he'd just
    7 kind of: Luke and he'd reach over. A couple times
    8 maybe a couple would come over and sit on his lap.
    9 DAN SHULER: Would he ever talk to the
    10 children softly? Do you recall if he would whisper
    11 something in their ear, that you recall?
    12 JOHN RAMSEY: I don't recall any overt
    13 whispering or anything like that. He was very soft
    14 spoken.
    15 PATSY RAMSEY: Down on their level, you
    16 know.
    17 DAN SHULER: Sure.
    18 MARY KEENAN: Did he ever sing?
    19 JOHN RAMSEY: He sang songs.
    20 PATSY RAMSEY: He sang songs, yeah.
    21 MARY KEENAN: You talked about '95 at the
    22 Christmas parade. What about '96 Christmas parade?
    23 PATSY RAMSEY: See, I don't know. Cause I
    24 wasn't in town. My parents took JonBenet in their
    25 car, you know. She rode with several of her small
    1 colleagues there. So I don't know if he was there
    2 or not.
    3 DAN SHULER: Now Burke recalled being in the
    4 Christmas parade himself, with the scouts or
    5 something like that?
    6 PATSY RAMSEY: Right.
    7 DAN SHULER: He said one year they got to
    8 ride and the girls had to walk. And the next year
    9 the boys go to (INAUDIBLE), it was vice versa. And
    10 there was a sailboat or was it at boat that they
    11 decorated ?
    12 PATSY RAMSEY: They decorated, right.
    13 DAN SHULER: Was that the '96 year?
    14 PATSY RAMSEY: That was the '95.
    15 DAN SHULER: The '95.
    16 PATSY RAMSEY: Right.
    17 DAN SHULER: In '96, was he involved in
    18 the parade also?
    19 PATSY RAMSEY: No. He and Nathan -- just
    20 watched, but he wasn't in the parade. He wasn't
    21 scouting that year.
    22 DAN SHULER: In '96, okay. So JonBenet
    23 was in a car?
    24 PATSY RAMSEY: A convertible, correct.
    25 DAN SHULER: And what about in' '95?
    1 PATSY RAMSEY: '95 was when we did the
    2 sailboat. She was Ms. Little Ms. Colorado, or
    3 something or the other.
    4 DAN SHULER: Okay.
    5 PATSY RAMSEY: She sat on the sailboat
    6 and sang "(INAUDIBLE) Lollipop", and it was
    7 decorated like (INAUDIBLE) lollipop.
    8 DAN SHULER: Okay.
    9 PATSY RAMSEY: And the boy scouts were
    10 decorated like packages.
    11 DAN SHULER: Right. That's what you were
    12 telling me.
    13 PATSY RAMSEY: And that Santa had, and
    14 they handed out lollipops to the kids along the
    15 street.
    16 DAN SHULER: Okay. I wasn't quite sure
    17 which year that was. What about the video? Well
    18 not the video, but the tape. Tell me a little bit
    19 about that?
    20 JOHN RAMSEY: I didn't listened to it.
    21 PATSY RAMSEY: I haven't listened to it
    22 either.
    23 JOHN RAMSEY: I couldn't bring myself to
    24 listen to it. But I passed it on to Ellis, and
    25 he's given it to you guys (INAUDIBLE).
    1 DAN SHULER: Do you remember, for
    2 clarification, just when he said that to you?
    3 PATSY RAMSEY: Well he had given one to
    4 us "Santa's Simplest Gift" or something the
    5 previous year.
    6 DAN SHULER: '95.
    7 JOHN RAMSEY: I don't remember.
    8 PATSY RAMSEY: Well I never listened to it.
    9 I just put it in the tape drawer. But the next
    10 year he said he had included JonBenet's name in
    11 it, in the story, in some updated version or
    12 something. I listened to it and it wasn't.
    13 DAN SHULER: How good was his Santa suit?
    14 JOHN RAMSEY: It was marginal, as I recall?
    15 DAN SHULER: Did it look fairly authentic?
    16 JOHN RAMSEY: Yeah.
    17 PATSY RAMSEY: Yeah.
    18 JOHN RAMSEY: It had been worn; it was a
    19 worn Santa suit, to my recollection.
    20 DAN SHULER: Okay. Some Santas wear
    21 accessories and things like that. Did he wear any
    22 accessories like gloves or other things on his
    23 boots?
    24 JOHN RAMSEY: I don't -- gosh.
    25 PATSY RAMSEY: It seems to me like wore
    1 those little (INAUDIBLE) or gold -- you remember?
    2 JOHN RAMSEY: I don't remember. We have got
    3 pictures.
    4 PATSY RAMSEY: We've got pictures.
    5 JOHN RAMSEY: Because we took a lot of
    6 pictures. We'll look at all the pictures we have
    7 and send them to you.
    8 DAN SHULER: All right. That would really
    9 be helpful. Now would that be for the '96 one that
    10 you have the photographs for?
    11 JOHN RAMSEY: We gave those to the police.
    12 They're on a roll of film that I just gave them.
    13 Mr. Ellis should still have some pictures on him.
    14 DAN SHULER: Okay. Do you remember his boots
    15 at all, off the top of your head?
    16 JOHN RAMSEY: They weren't -- I don't
    17 remember them not being consistent with his
    18 costume. They weren't big ugly ones or something
    19 like that.
    20 DAN SHULER: Other than his reindeer, do
    21 you know what he showed up in?
    22 PATSY RAMSEY: I think I opened the door
    23 prematurely and they were coming out of a little,
    24 kind of a little hatchback car. I don't know my
    25 cars very well. But small, with the back end sort
    1 of lift up.
    2 DAN SHULER: Like a little compact type
    3 of car?
    4 PATSY RAMSEY: Yeah.
    5 MARY KEENAN: Do you remember the color?
    6 PATSY RAMSEY: Well, it was dark. I'm
    7 (INAUDIBLE) say it was white or something.
    8 MARY KEENAN: What car would you compare it
    9 to if you had to?
    10 PATSY RAMSEY: I don't know my cars real
    11 well. Like a Pinto hatchback or something like
    12 that.
    13 MARY KEENAN: Smaller?
    14 PATSY RAMSEY: Smaller.
    15 JOHN RAMSEY: One of the cars I noticed
    16 driving by was a white, could have been a Pinto. I
    17 don't know that I got a good look at who was in
    18 it.
    19 MARY KEENAN: Did you notice if it was one
    20 person or two?
    21 JOHN RAMSEY: I think one is what I
    22 remember.
    23 MARY KEENAN: And what was your initial
    24 thought?
    25 JOHN RAMSEY: Just thought I saw him drive
    1 by twice on Cascade and 126th, and there was
    2 hardly any traffic
    3 MARY KEENAN: What time?
    4 JOHN RAMSEY: Early. Sevenish, probably. It
    5 was early in the process.
    6 DAN SHULER: So you noticed a small
    7 white car?
    8 JOHN RAMSEY: Um hmm.
    9 DAN SHULER: Hatchback type?
    10 JOHN RAMSEY: It could have been. But it's
    11 possible. I don't remember it specifically. But it
    12 was a small white car.
    13 DAN SHULER: Okay. Several times?
    14 JOHN RAMSEY: I want to say twice.
    15 MARY KEENAN: Twice in one direction, or
    16 down and back?
    17 JOHN RAMSEY: Possible twice in the same
    18 direction. I mean it was a little suspicious to me
    19 at the time, but it wasn't enough to really
    20 (INAUDIBLE) in on it.
    21 DAN SHULER: Talk a little bit about the
    22 harp. You mentioned about the harp.
    23 JOHN RAMSEY: That was in a letter, and
    24 you have that letter.
    25 MARY KEENAN: Um hmm. (INAUDIBLE).
    1 JOHN RAMSEY: Is one of these in
    2 handwriting?
    3 MARY KEENAN: I can't read that.
    5 this letter. (CONTINUING READING LETTER) I think
    6 what he was trying to do was to get this woman,
    7 she was like a journalist, he was trying to --
    8 (CONTINUTING READING LETTER). I don't know how I
    9 got that harp thing. But I'm sure --
    10 PATSY RAMSEY: Was that in a magazine?
    11 JOHN RAMSEY: Well, maybe.
    12 PATSY RAMSEY: There was a picture and he
    13 had a scarf around his neck. It was in a People
    14 magazine article, I think.
    15 DAN SHULER: He was in People?
    16 PATSY RAMSEY: I think it was a People
    17 magazine. It had several people they've talked
    18 with, you know. And he and his wife, and they had
    19 the bottle of the fairy dust, and he had this
    20 scarf around his neck.
    21 JOHN RAMSEY: Now see here, he talks about
    22 three other innocent children who lost their lives
    23 too early. Now does the tape talk about Harvey and
    24 the harp?
    25 PATSY RAMSEY: I don't know. I never
    1 listened to the harp, to the --
    2 JOHN RAMSEY: That might be where it is. The
    3 tape was described to me by; I haven't listened to
    4 it.
    5 DAN SHULER: Okay.
    6 JOHN RAMSEY: And that may be where I got
    7 the harp part out of.
    8 DAN SHULER: Okay. What is the date on here?
    9 Oh, February 14 of 1995.
    10 PATSY RAMSEY: Um hmm.
    11 MARY KEENAN: Wrong year.
    12 PATSY RAMSEY: Um hmm.
    13 MARY KEENAN: Two years off. (INAUDIBLE).
    14 I noticed that too. Did he ever talk to you about
    15 his family at all?
    16 PATSY RAMSEY: Just that he has a son who
    17 is a baker.
    18 JOHN RAMSEY: He had a daughter or a
    19 daughter's friend who was kidnapped on Christmas
    20 or near Christmas or something like that.
    21 MARY KEENAN: Did he tell you about that?
    22 JOHN RAMSEY: No, we heard that later. I
    23 also think I saw him once on television, not
    24 remember that. And I was, "Oh, yeah. I forgot
    25 about that We needing a break." Something like
    1 that. Even after the memorial service this was the
    2 last guy we would have thought about. And these
    3 funny things start to happen.
    4 DAN SHULER: So he's been trying to
    5 communicate with you more since JonBenet's death?
    6 PATSY RAMSEY: Um hmm.
    7 JOHN RAMSEY: Um hmm.
    8 DAN SHULER: Do you recall if he ever took
    9 any photographs of her? Or let me rephrase it. Not
    10 even taking photographs of her, but asking for
    11 some photographs of her.
    12 PATSY RAMSEY: He asked me. I think I took
    13 a picture of them one year at the parade, and he
    14 said, "Oh, I would love to have a copy of that."
    15 or something.
    16 DAN SHULER: Had he ever seen a portfolio
    17 of JonBenet? Or photographs that would have been
    18 publicized or make any sort of comment that he had
    19 seen a photograph in some sort of publicity?
    20 PATSY RAMSEY: No. Not that I remember.
    21 MARY KEENAN: What did JonBenet tell you
    22 about the tour she took him on?
    23 PATSY RAMSEY: Nothing. She just said she
    24 gave him fairy dust, you know.
    25 SHUL: Also it seems in the letter that he
    1 made comment that she took him on a guided tour to
    2 the house and he mentions unexpectedly memorable
    3 was being taken to the basement. Is that typically
    4 where the fairy dust was kept?
    5 PATSY RAMSEY: Yeah. That was where all the
    6 glitter and glue and craft paper
    7 DAN SHULER: Okay. Which room was that?
    8 PATSY RAMSEY: That was beyond where the
    9 train was; the train and the room to the corner.
    10 DAN SHULER: That was where the window was
    11 broken, right?
    12 JOHN RAMSEY: Yes.
    13 DAN SHULER: Okay.
    14 MARY KEENAN: Did she also take him upstairs
    15 to her room?
    16 PATSY RAMSEY: I think so.
    17 JOHN RAMSEY: Yes.
    18 PATSY RAMSEY: To show him her Christmas
    19 trees.
    20 DAN SHULER: Were you aware she was taking
    21 him on the tour?
    22 PATSY RAMSEY: Yeah. Yeah.
    23 DAN SHULER: Did you have a sense of how
    24 long it took, how long they were off together?
    25 PATSY RAMSEY: Five or ten minutes. I mean,
    1 there were people all over the house. I mean, it
    2 wasn't like they were just together.
    3 MARY KEENAN: So when you were talking to
    4 JonBenet about Christmas or reading stories did
    5 she ever comment that Santa Claus does such and
    6 such?
    8 MARY KEENAN: And did you ever hear
    9 about any secret visits from Santa Claus?
    10 PATSY RAMSEY: No.
    11 JOHN RAMSEY: The only thing we heard was
    12 supposedly the mother of Costanek --
    13 PATSY RAMSEY: Yeah, Costanek. Yeah.
    14 JOHN RAMSEY: Barb Costanek .
    15 PATSY RAMSEY: Yeah.
    16 JOHN RAMSEY: Said that JonBenet told her
    17 Santa was playing there on the 25th. He had told
    18 her he would be at their house.
    19 PATSY RAMSEY: Not that day of the 25th.
    20 JOHN RAMSEY: okay, what was it?
    21 PATSY RAMSEY: The 24th.
    22 JOHN RAMSEY: Okay. At their house. And she
    23 said that Santa was going to come visit her -- no,
    24 no, no. I think it was --
    25 MARY KEENAN: After Christmas?
    1 JOHN RAMSEY: After Christmas. So I think
    2 the day after Christmas. So the 26th or something
    3 like that. Barb apparently said: no, you mean
    4 tomorrow. She said no, it's going to be a special
    5 visit the next night, or something like that.
    6 DAN SHULER: Right.
    7 JOHN RAMSEY: Are you kind of aware of that?
    8 DAN SHULER: Yes.
    9 MARY KEENAN: Would he know, would you have
    10 told him or would JonBenet have told him that you
    11 were leaving for Charlevoix in the morning?
    12 JOHN RAMSEY: It's possible we may have.
    13 PATSY RAMSEY: It's possible, I guess. But I
    14 don't know when. I mean, that night he just came
    15 into the chair and sat down and the kids were
    16 right there, and he didn't --
    17 JOHN RAMSEY: Did he ever call on the phone
    18 for the kids or anything like that? (INAUDIBLE)
    19 the house --
    20 PATSY RAMSEY: Gee, yes. I do remember that
    21 he did.
    22 DAN SHULER: Did he call the children on
    23 the phone?
    24 PATSY RAMSEY: Yeah. He said -- My God, I
    25 just vaguely remember he called and said -- I
    1 think it was just when he called me, and I said,
    2 "Santa wants to bring over some things."
    3 DAN SHULER: Did they ever question that?
    4 PATSY RAMSEY: Well, I said he's coming to
    5 our party. I don't think they actually spoke. Then
    6 they might have.
    7 JOHN RAMSEY: I just vaguely seems like I
    8 remember them talking to him on the phone.
    9 PATSY RAMSEY: Could have been.
    10 DAN SHULER: Would the children ever answer
    11 the phone themselves?
    12 JOHN RAMSEY: Oh, yeah.
    13 PATSY RAMSEY: yeah.
    14 DAN SHULER: As far as (INAUDIBLE) hang up
    15 calls while you were living at the house? First I
    16 want to say that I recall reading that somewhere.
    17 PATSY RAMSEY: Yeah. (INAUDIBLE) so many
    18 things it's hard to remember.
    19 MNK: It talks about one in the morning?
    20 JOHN RAMSEY: Oh, yeah. We one hang up call
    21 in the eight to ten period while we were waiting
    22 for the call.
    23 MNK: Did anybody track that one?
    24 JOHN RAMSEY: I don't know.
    25 DAN SHULER: I believe that it was Linda
    1 that reported in one of her reports, said that
    2 prior to Christmas, you were getting some hang up
    3 calls.
    4 JOHN RAMSEY: We may have.
    5 PATSY RAMSEY: We may have. I can't
    6 remember.
    7 DAN SHULER: You don't remember?
    9 DAN SHULER: I wasn't sure.
    10 JOHN RAMSEY: Didn't Linda answered the
    11 phone for us once when she was there?
    12 PATSY RAMSEY: Oh, Linda my friend. I was
    13 thinking Linda Arndt.
    14 DAN SHULER: Oh, no. I'm sorry.
    15 JOHN RAMSEY: I was too.
    16 PATSY RAMSEY: You mean Linda my cleaning
    17 lady?
    18 DAN SHULER: I'm sorry.
    19 PATSY RAMSEY: Yes, she answered the phone.
    20 UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: Do you remember
    21 getting any phone calls on the 25th or the phone
    22 ringing on the 25th?
    23 PATSY RAMSEY: No. I just remember being in
    24 the laundry area all day wrapping presents mostly.
    25 No.
    1 DAN SHULER: What struck odd about Bill, now
    2 thinking back on everything?
    3 JOHN RAMSEY: Well, he was very effeminate;
    4 he wasn't a jovial Santa Claus. He was kind of a
    5 gay Santa Claus; I don't know how else to put it.
    6 He always use to Ho, Ho, Ho.
    7 PATSY RAMSEY: Not in a deep voice.
    8 JOHN RAMSEY: It was kind of -- this is not
    9 Santa Claus. (INAUDIBLE).
    10 PATSY RAMSEY: Give me a ho, ho, ho.
    11 JOHN RAMSEY: Yeah. So he was a bit strange
    12 that way. And he never got out of that act, and I
    13 never saw him any different than that. Even when
    14 we'd be coming to the door and we'd always be
    15 talking to him, as adults.
    16 PATSY RAMSEY: Yeah. He was always playing
    17 the roll of the (GESTICULATING EFFEMINATELY).
    18 DAN SHULER: So you saw him several times
    19 out of the Santa suit, right?
    20 PATSY RAMSEY: No.
    21 JOHN RAMSEY: No. It was always --
    22 PATSY RAMSEY: He was always circulating the
    23 party. He wouldn't say, "Hey, can I have a beer."
    25 JOHN RAMSEY: He was this very (INAUDIBLE),
    1 just very --
    2 DAN SHULER: More of a (INAUDIBLE)?
    3 JOHN RAMSEY: Shirley Temple was more of a
    4 man than he was.
    5 MNK: When he talked to you, did he mention
    6 any other places that he was going to be Santa?
    7 PATSY RAMSEY: No, but he said that the
    8 night of the (INAUDIBLE) that he had another
    9 engagement after that, and that he had been with
    10 the TV crew, going around to events.
    11 DAN SHULER: And Mrs. Claus wasn't very
    12 jovial, right?
    13 JOHN RAMSEY: No.
    14 PATSY RAMSEY: Mrs. Claus was not, no.
    15 JOHN RAMSEY: I thought she was not happy
    16 to be there.
    17 PATSY RAMSEY: No. I just presumed she was
    18 there to keep him from falling or something. That
    19 was the only impression I got.
    20 JOHN RAMSEY: But she had on Mrs. Santa kind
    21 of thing.
    22 DAN SHULER: White wig and everything?
    23 JOHN RAMSEY: No.
    24 PATSY RAMSEY: No.
    25 JOHN RAMSEY: Just a red --
    1 PATSY RAMSEY: Like a little apron or
    2 something.
    3 JOHN RAMSEY: Yeah.
    4 DAN SHULER: Would he wear a wig?
    6 JOHN RAMSEY: No, he had a real beard.
    7 UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: Who else do you all
    8 know that you know that may have used him?
    9 JOHN RAMSEY: I tell you who you got to talk
    10 to is Pam Archuletta. She was head of United Way.
    11 She said they interviewed him and decided that he
    12 was really a weird duck, and they wouldn't use
    13 him. She has some very strong opinions about him.
    14 I can give you Mike's office number. It's
    15 877-4282, that's Mike Archuletta. Yeah, we've
    16 talked about him after the fact and she had some
    17 very strong feelings about him. (INAUDIBLE).
    18 MARY KEENAN: Do you remember what she said
    19 about him?
    20 JOHN RAMSEY: It just supported some of the
    21 things that we're hearing. A pedophile , you know.
    22 DAN SHULER: Other than making toys during
    23 the year, what did he do for a job?
    24 PATSY RAMSEY: It seems like we asked him
    25 that one time and it seems like he said -- did he
    1 say that he rode a motorcycles or was that that
    2 man in Atlanta?
    3 JOHN RAMSEY: It was one of the Santas.
    4 PATSY RAMSEY: We had a Santa in Atlanta
    5 too. I mean when we lived in Atlanta before.
    6 JOHN RAMSEY: He was the one in Atlanta.
    7 He was kind of cool.
    8 PATSY RAMSEY: Yeah, he was.
    9 JOHN RAMSEY: He would say he was going to
    10 ride his motorcycle to California.
    11 DAN SHULER: What would be your best guess
    12 about his financial condition?
    13 JOHN RAMSEY: Well, based on how he was
    14 dressed at the memorial service and what these
    15 investigators who visited him said, he didn't have
    16 a nickel to his name. In fact, we had heard
    17 through our investigators that he had some
    18 financial problems at one time. Does that ring a
    19 bell?
    20 UNIDENTIFIED VOICE: My belief was that he
    21 was for many years a (INAUDIBLE) professor at CU,
    22 which is not a particularly well-paying job; it's
    23 certainly not courthouse. I believe that he's been
    24 retired for some time. I don't know John. We can
    25 certainly get you what else we've got.
    1 DAN SHULER: All right. Nothing urgent but,
    2 if you all are about done, there are a lot of
    3 people holding up waiting to do a diversion plan
    4 to get you out of here.
    5 We can certainly continue again, if you really got
    6 some other important areas to cover. But you if
    7 you're near the end I think you should kind of
    8 move.
    9 MARY KEENAN: Well, I think we will probably
    10 have some more questions. But after we think about
    11 it and listen to the tape if (INAUDIBLE).
    12 DAN SHULER: What I want you to do, and if
    13 you wouldn't mind, is to focus your thoughts on
    14 this particular area. Jot down thoughts that you
    15 have about it, what are some concerns. It would
    16 help us and give us some ideas that you think that
    17 you'd like to see us explore.
    18 JOHN RAMSEY: The things that started
    19 concerning us were, he started to fit kind of the
    20 profile that Douglas had given us of somebody
    21 who's been hanging around us; they kind of like
    22 the limelight, he was on the Today Show; he was
    23 interviewed on television; and then he split.
    24 He fits. He's been in the house, could have been
    25 jealous of, you know, if we had more money than we
    1 did. I mean, Patsy, Christmas at our place looked
    2 liked (INAUDIBLE) cause she just loved Christmas.
    3 It wasn't a modest Christmas, you know. So it was
    4 a big deal.
    5 MARY KEENAN: I have one other question.
    6 You said you stopped in several times; just poked
    7 your head in for a second?
    8 PATSY RAMSEY: Um hmm.
    9 MARY KEENAN: And you'd heard about the
    10 daughter. But do you know anything more about the
    11 daughter, where did she move to, what did she do?
    12 Does he ever talk about the daughter?
    13 PATSY RAMSEY: Uh uh. That was the first
    14 I'd heard about a daughter when all this came out:
    15 about the play, and the daughter that --
    16 JOHN RAMSEY: I know Dan Glick and Sharon
    17 Keene-Osborne from Newsweek had (INAUDIBLE) real
    18 hard. They might be someone good to talk to.
    19 DAN SHULER: Right.
    20 JOHN RAMSEY: Because they thought he
    21 was the one from earlier on. There's Valentine's
    22 Day too, incidents: hearts.
    23 PATSY RAMSEY: Hearts.
    24 DAN SHULER: Would he ever draw with paints
    25 on the children?
    1 JOHN RAMSEY: Not that I ever saw.
    3 in the original?
    4 JOHN RAMSEY: He used blue and black.
    5 UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: Nothing unusual like
    6 pink or red?
    7 JOHN RAMSEY: No.
    8 MARY KEENAN: (INAUDIBLE) the other one.
    9 Do
    10 you recall if that was a milk carton or some other
    11 (INAUDIBLE)?
    12 JOHN RAMSEY: No, I don't. We probably have
    13 the original, right?
    14 UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: I suppose so, yes.
    15 PATSY RAMSEY: Did we ever get her
    16 handwriting samples?
    18 JOHN RAMSEY: You see, that's one thing I
    19 would like to because I don't know how you'd get
    20 it. We tried to pull together anything of them we
    21 had, which would probably be just as horrible as
    22 that. Did we have our guys look at that?
    23 UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: I believe so.
    24 JOHN RAMSEY: I think we did.
    25 UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: I think you all did.
    1 JOHN RAMSEY: Okay. Maybe it's written down.
    2 But I'm would also be curious about Mrs. Claus.
    3 According to our investigators when they went up
    4 to talk to them, they said he was pretty cordial,
    5 but she was very controlling and told him to shut
    6 up.
    7 UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER:: Mary, do you want
    8 any of this to write, or do you write any of this
    9 down?
    10 DAN SHULER: Would you?
    12 DAN SHULER: I would appreciate it. And
    13 then if you have any thoughts who would be good to
    14 speak with.
    15 UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: Other contacts.
    16 DAN SHULER: Right.
    17 JOHN RAMSEY: Something that I thought of
    18 when Bryan came into, I'll think of somebody else
    19 to talk to.
    20 PATSY RAMSEY: Oh, there's Scott Gibbons
    21 next door. I had written a note to myself that one
    22 year he saw Santa coming in, and so he caught him
    23 on the way out and asked him to come over and stop
    24 off at his kids for five minutes.
    25 DAN SHULER: And did he?
    1 PATSY RAMSEY: I think so.
    2 UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: Did he give you any
    3 references when you hired him that first
    4 Christmas? Did you to talk to anyone down by
    5 the mall?
    6 PATSY RAMSEY: No. I mean, just the fact
    7 that he was the mall Santa Claus, and we had used
    8 a Santa Claus from the Ridges in Atlanta.
    9 MARY KEENAN: He worked for DBI Downtown
    10 Business.
    12 MARY KEENAN: As Santa.
    13 PATSY RAMSEY: As Santa, yes.
    14 UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: Okay, we'll go. You
    15 check what you got and let us know anything you
    16 still need from us in terms of video or pictures
    17 that we may have that you don't.
    18 JOHN RAMSEY: What kind of comments were
    19 made in Europe? Do you have any memory about that?
    20 MARY KEENAN: I don't know what the
    21 comments were at all. I was told by someone else
    22 that a woman called while they were in Spain. She
    23 met them, ran into them, and he was talking about
    24 JonBenet's death and making inappropriate
    1 DAN SHULER: Now what those comments were,
    2 I don't know.
    3 PATSY RAMSEY: Wow. That's really,
    4 (WHISTLE).
    5 JOHN RAMSEY: Cause that was shortly after
    6 her death. For a guy who could hardly walk in the
    7 door, then he was in the City of New York on the
    8 streets a week later and then off to Europe.
    9 PATSY RAMSEY: Right.
    10 JOHN RAMSEY: I don't buy it.
  2. AK

    AK Member

    Thanks, Spade

    This is truly one of the lowest displays of evil out of the Ramseys' mouths. They can apologize daily and it will never be enough.
  3. BobC

    BobC Poster of the EON - Fabulous Inimitable Transcript

    Evil and senile

    What gets me here is how J and P just can't seem to pull it together long enough to say whether Mc Santa was said to be coming on the 24th, 25th or 26th. I mean they've had seven years to ask this "friend" which date of many she was referring to but obviously they haven't bothered.

    So what's important in this whole tacky charade is that the first two dates of Santa's "coming visit" have the most innocent of explanations--after all Santa either comes late Christmas eve or early Christmas day! The fact that these two parents haven't bothered to get a confirmation on what Jonbenet actually (supposedly) told this friend says it all, doesn't it?

    Once again we have vague allegations from the Ramseys, always stopping short of actually saying it outright, as they try to frame others for this crime.

    I certainly hope that posters who have have bought the Ramseys' sugar and light routine recently will read this exchange while drinking a double espresso.
  4. Vic

    Vic Active Member

    not senile

    Just mean-spirited, hateful and evil.

    Slamming a poor old guy who picked up a few odd $20 bucks here and there to play Santa in his old, used santa suit.

    With recent heart surgery, but hey, he was probably faking the ill health thing. It probably endeared him to all the other gay Santas...

    Being married to a "dippy" woman. Wow, haul out the cuffs and book 'em. I'd rather be dippy than be Patsy Ramsey.

    Cheap bastards, too. 20 - 25 bucks? I'll bet that went a long way towards heart surgery.
  5. "J_R"

    "J_R" Shutter Bug Bee

    Re: Thanks, Spade

    14 PAGES 626 - 666

    PAGES 626 - <b>666</b> Coincidence? Just askin'
  6. LurkerXIV

    LurkerXIV Moderator


    Patsy Ramsey is such a friggin' b!tch!

    When is she gonna get hers?

    Oh, Great God of Karma, where are you? Ms. Patsy B!tch is long overdue for a big shot of whoopa$$!
  7. BobC

    BobC Poster of the EON - Fabulous Inimitable Transcript

    I feel lynch-mobby

    "Shirley Temple was more of a man than he was."

    Says John "macho man" Ramsey. I can only hope to be as manly as JR someday.
  8. Shadow

    Shadow FFJ Senior Content Moderator

    These are the GOOD Christians that Lou Smit fell on his knees and prayed with!! Help me Jesus my :(:(:(...
  9. Niner

    Niner Active Member

    NO! and they weren't Hi-Techs either!

    Huh? Bill had a reindeer - or was this guy being factious?

  10. Niner

    Niner Active Member

    anyone know 'what' these "inappropriate comments" were?? Be interesting to know - anyone??
  11. LurkerXIV

    LurkerXIV Moderator

    Cheese 'n Crackers!

    Who was in charge of the interrogation here? Cordial John or Redlightrunner Keenan?

    And Patsy...still whistling "Dixie"!
  12. Deja Nu

    Deja Nu Banned

    Oh My God

    Mrs. Santa should sue the friggin' size 12 panties right off Patsy's fat :(:(:(...or John's head...Who DO these people think they ARE???? Notice all the "ladies" who sat on Santa's lap for pics didn't find him so uncomfortable. Hell, I'd rather sit on a gay Santa's lap than have a pedophile for a father....Those WERE your Israeli sweater fibers, not Santa's, right JR? Remind me to beeyatch-slap Keenan when I see her...Rest in peace with JonBenet, Santa Bill!
  13. BobC

    BobC Poster of the EON - Fabulous Inimitable Transcript

    "Now that I am barely breathing, I know all the answers...
    Is it all part of a great design?
    Is this life we're living
    all part of a Great Design?"

    Nona Hendryx 1985
  14. BobC

    BobC Poster of the EON - Fabulous Inimitable Transcript

    Has anyone heard from Hergus?
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