Lassoing The Truth

Discussion in 'Justice for JonBenet Discussion - Public Forum' started by EasyWriter, Mar 11, 2006.

  1. EasyWriter

    EasyWriter FFJ Senior Member

    The intent of this post is to prove a point: Literally every
    person reading this has the experience and knowledge to extract
    the fundamental truths of the case without any “expert help.â€
    Whether they want to and do so or not is another matter.

    Various backgrounds and various experiences translates to various
    areas of knowledge. Due to my background, I happen to know a
    great deal about ropes, cords, knots, handles and that sort of
    thing. By some, I have been called an “expert†in the field. So
    has Van Tassel who probably has difficulty tying his own
    shoelaces. Forget the “expert†BS. This is a layman’s case. No
    “experts†required.

    Envision a five year old child getting into the cookie jar after
    being told not to. He accidentally drops the lid and it breaks
    into two pieces. He takes some bubble gum and sticks the two
    pieces back together as best he can. The bubble gum oozes out
    each side and you can see the cookies through the crack in the
    lid. He hopes and expects this to hide the truth.

    This is the mental level indicated by the staging in the Ramsey
    case. This person did not know any more about the materials and
    construction than the five year old did about “staging†a cookie
    jar. This person may know a lot about a lot of things, but cords
    and knots are not two of them. That this child-like staging has
    for over nine years fooled a long list of “experts†in and out of
    LE leaves me shuddering. The theories propagated and promoted in
    order to deny simple facts of physics are of such outlandish
    nature as to put The Brothers Grimm to shame.

    http://www.acandyrose.com/garrote5.jpg

    Without considerable experience, a written description is not all
    that easy to grasp. Fortunately, we have photos. These, combined
    with your knowledge, makes what happened not difficult to
    understand at all. First, get and hold in mind the overall scene.
    The elements combined reveal the intent to portray a kidnaping,
    sexual assault and murder by strangulation. Bound and gagged is a
    classic in kidnaping. Now, look at the “bindings†and see what
    they tell you.

    One loop was tied so loosely around the wrist, Dr. Meyer removed
    it without cutting or untying. The other loop apparently came off
    when the body was moved prior to Dr. Meyer’s arrival. This loop
    is much larger than the other loop. Neither compressed upon a
    wrist; hence, no binding. The knot of one loop is different from
    the knot of the other.

    How is all this to be explained? Do you conclude these non
    functional “wrist ties†and differences in knots were by
    conscious intent? If so, what do you believe the perpetrator
    intended to gain by this? If the intent was not to bind, what was
    the intent? If the intent was to bind, what accounts for the
    abysmal failure to accomplish the task?

    Since I don’t have the actual evidence, let’s do a bit of
    ‘supposin’ and see how it shakes out. Suppose you had the large
    loop in hand and tried to tighten it to the wrists, but found
    that it was knot-locked and would not move, therefore, could not
    be compressed upon the wrist. Do you think this was intentional?
    If so, for what purpose? If the intent was to compress upon the
    wrists and bind, why the failure?

    At this juncture, we know the wrist binding attempt came up
    negative. If you cannot find a reason for this being purposely
    done, what remains but bundling ignorance of the perpetrator?
    Suppose you wrap the cord around the wrist, then loop it over
    itself, followed by one or two loop turns to make the knot. Now
    you pull the leads intending for it to go down to the wrist, but
    the loop knot compresses upon the cord and stops. You pull harder
    trying to get the cord to compress the wrist. It doesn’t happen.
    It’s stuck, and stuck tight. What now? You can’t get the knot
    loose to start over; and even if you could, you wouldn’t know how
    to do it right. What do you do? Just leave it? What next? Go to
    the other wrists and try again, but still not knowing what to do?
    Is this how the knot with a bow turned up, but not binding the
    wrist either? (BTW, the usual purpose of a bow is quick release.
    What, the perpetrator had planned to use it again? :))

    Looking for yourself and breaking it down to the ultimate
    simplicity, a claimed kidnaping with the body in the house
    immediately loses a lot of credibility. A “binding†that does not
    bind if by intent is self-contradictory; and if not by intent
    clearly exposes a bungling amateur totally ignorant of materials
    and construction? Why if not from desperation to hide the truth?
    How does a long-gone “intruder†fit into this scene?

    http://www.acandyrose.com/garrote4.jpg

    The cord embedded deeply into JonBenet’s neck is often cited as
    evidence of the “brutality of the murder.â€

    “A deep ligature furrow encircles the entire neck.†(Autopsy
    report)

    Hello out there is RST land. Can you read? Can you say, encircle?
    Do you know what the term, encircle, means. Please take out a
    long piece of string from your DEFECTIVE DETECTIVE KIT. Tie or
    make a loop around a round something several inches and diameter.
    Now pull. What happens? Do you observe that the maximum force is
    one eighty degrees from your pulling position with corresponding
    dissipation of force around the rest of the neck except the very
    back of the neck where the string pulls away and does not touch
    the neck at all.

    As the primary question in the course, PHYSICS FOR FOOLS, pray
    tell dear Rambots how in the hell does pulling the handle create
    a circumferential furrow? Second question: If pulling the handle
    does not work to create the circumferential furrow, what is it
    purpose? Third question: How was if used? The idiots over at
    double B have been chasing their tails for year with theories
    about the function of the handle and none fit the evidence.
    Simple reason: The handle had no function except to satisfy the
    aberration of the perpetrator who was a ignorant of “garrotingâ€
    as she was of “wrist ties.†It just came in mind that a handle
    was a needed finishing touch.

    What did create the furrow? I’ll say it again: The post mortem
    swelling meeting the resistance of a fixed diameter cord; which
    in turn means, the size of the noose could not be reduced to
    effect circumferential strangling. According to Dr. Meyer, the
    cord was tied at the midline of the back of the neck. This means
    the attempt to tie tightly exerted the primary force one eighty
    degrees away, meaning the front of the throat. This is one of the
    reasons that I have always considered the possibility of barely
    alive and some strangulation taking place; but as primary - never
    happened.

    Am I mistaken about no “experts†needed? Is not the physics
    described within your range of knowledge? Without y “expert
    opinionâ€, don’t you grasp the flaws clearly revealing the
    staging? “Bubble gum case†- Right?
     
  2. rashomon

    rashomon Member

    Wow Easywriter, there's quite a discussion going on about those knots and loops over at Websleuths, lol! ("Double Loop Knot" thread).
    I asked the posters if they had read your analysis of the knots and the garrote. No one obviously had. But some seem to have read it now, and one or two got pretty emotional over the whole thing.
    Their emotion can be explained imo because you analyzed these knots very convincingly as totally unprofessional and as the work of a bungling amateur, and also said that they are not listed in any knot book and that this was hardly surprising.
    This of course questions any intruder/kidnapper scenario for one would at least expect from kidnappers that they know how to tie knots which function.

    One poster at Websleuths stated:
    I know next to nothing about knots - my question:
    Is a slip knot a knot in which the size of the loop can be controlled by pulling at the ends?
    Is a double loop knot a slip knot too?
    The way I understood your anylysis of the bigger wrist ligature was that once a double loop knot is pulled tight, control over loop size ends, and that it was no longer possible to adjust the size of the ligature to fit tightly around the wrist. Therefore, this loop is not adjustable anymore.

    And what would be the point in tying someone with a slip knot which stays adjustable, I ask myself. For couldn't the person easily free himself from the ligature then?
    TIA for your help!
     
  3. Elle

    Elle Member

    Good question Rashomon, but in this case, JonBenét was already dead, and Patsy Ramsey didn't think of this at the time of tying the knots, did she? No one else thought about this either in LE, because the Ramseys are still walking free out there.

    Having said that, tying the wrists with slip knots in a real kidnapping would be really stupid, if the person was still conscious.
     
  4. EasyWriter

    EasyWriter FFJ Senior Member

    lol is right. In reference to some (not all) of the posts, I have
    never seen that much absurdity crammed into such a small place
    before. If they knew how silly they look against a backdrop of
    the facts, they would cease the nonsense immediately. Of course,
    they don’t know that they don’t know, so they keep on.

    Have you seen anyone quote from my analysis, then try to show
    error by description of how and why such and such is wrong? I
    suspect not. The ususal is arbitrary declaration claiming error
    if it doesn’t suit what they believe; no quote and argument; just
    “you’‘re wrong†as if the words are magic and dismiss the
    unwanted truth. There is also the usual demand for “credentialsâ€
    as if truth comes via authority. In other words, they will do
    and say whatever it takes to evade the facts. In other words,
    nothing new at all. Rather pitiful, isn’t it.

    “I asked the posters if they had read your analysis of the knots
    and the garrote. No one obviously had. But some seem to have read
    it now, and one or two got pretty emotional over the whole thing.
    Their emotion can be explained imo because you analyzed these
    knots very convincingly as totally unprofessional and as the work
    of a bungling amateur, and also said that they are not listed in
    any knot book and that this was hardly surprising.
    This of course questions any intruder/kidnapper scenario for one
    would at least expect from kidnappers that they know how to tie
    knots which function.†(Ibid)

    Excellent summation. I have no idea of how may photos of knots
    have been put up for comparison, but the one I found the most
    amusing is the photo of the raft lashing that “looks something
    like†some tie at the crime scene.:) They never even noticed that
    the “wrist ligatures†had two different kinds of ties.

    “One poster at Websleuths stated:
    Quote:
    The loops incidentally are made with slip knots, so the size of
    the individual loops in the photos is irrelevant. They are
    adjustable.†(Ibid)

    Funny, funny, funny. Why then were they not “adjusted†down to
    the wrists? It is precisely the slip knots that were utilized in
    a manner to render the loops non adjustable. Typical RST: Long on
    declarations. Short on facts.

    “I know next to nothing about knots - my question:
    Is a slip knot a knot in which the size of the loop can be
    controlled by pulling at the ends?†(Ibid)

    There are too many variables to answer your question with a
    simple yes or no. This will be explained in detail by what is to
    follow. What you are reading in most places about a slip knots
    shows no understanding at all. They invoke the term slip knot and
    imagine this relates to reduction of noose size to effect
    strangulation. In another place and time, it could, but in this
    situation of staging, the slip knot is precisely what precludes
    reducing loop size for strangulation. They know the name, but not
    the construction and physics - and PHYSICS NEVER LIE. :)

    The active phrase is “slipping knot†for slipping is exactly what
    it does. The knot in focus is usually tied from one end of a
    given length of cord or rope; one end as opposed to both ends
    utilized in tying a shoelace. The slip knot is made by wrapping
    cord around itself in a manner to create a knot. The issue is
    slipping how and where, to do what. In one place, it will
    accomplish what is intended. In another where ignorance is
    paramount, it can and often does result in the exact opposite of
    what is intended. The slip knots in the staging are totally
    inappropriate for the circumstance. Indeed, it is one of the
    major factors that expose the fraud.

    “Is a double loop knot a slip knot too?â€(ibid)

    Yes, single, double, triple, etc., goes to number of turns around
    itself. The basic construction is the same.

    “The way I understood your anylysis of the bigger wrist ligature
    was that once a double loop knot is pulled tight, control over
    loop size ends, and that it was no longer possible to adjust the
    size of the ligature to fit tightly around the wrist. Therefore,
    this loop is not adjustable anymore.†(Ibid)

    Your understanding is correct if you are referring to pulled
    tight firmly compressing the cord. Perhaps it would be more clear
    if you understood exactly how and why this happens. The
    explanation also explains the structure of a slip knot.

    On another forum, there is a thread, “Is this the knot.†It is an
    ongoing part of a silly nine year ghost chase. Not surprisingly,
    the confusion is maximum. There is a drawing of a small fixed
    loop with the end of the cord run through it to create a free-
    moving adjustable noose. This is the principle utilized in calf
    roping and numerous other operations. This is proper construction
    for a lasso, etc.

    The drawing of the small fixed loop and larger noose is all well
    and good, but it has nothing to do with the crime scene. There is
    no such construction in the crime scene. The tie and the knot
    around the neck does not even remotely resemble the drawing.
    Further proof is that if the cord around JonBenet’s neck was
    free moving, it would have moved away, not embedded in the neck
    during post mortem swelling. Also, pulling does not produce
    circumferential pressure whether slip of not slip.

    As a primary aid in understanding the cord and knots at the crime
    scene, construct the most basic slip knot. Take a long piece of
    string. Put one end over a horizontal bar, post, ect. Bring it
    under and back to you on the left of the main cord. Some distance
    from the end of the cord you brought back, grip between finger
    and thumb. Now bring the end of this section up and over the
    right side of the main cord. Now bring it over the thumb and
    finger holding that section of the cord. Bring it back through
    the hole created. You now have a single knotted turn around the
    main cord. Around the cord allows it to slip. You may pull and
    get it to slip down to the bar.

    This is not the end of it. There are many variables that must be
    understood in order to accomplish what you wish to accomplish.
    Although you may pull and slip this loop down to the bar, there
    is no means to remove it except to get something under the loop
    and pry it loose. How difficult this is depends on how hard the
    cord is pulled and how hard the knot is. This is a fundamental
    knot I have used thousands of times in various applications,
    including tying a horse to something, except I finished with a
    half bow for quick release. So, a slipping knot is merely a wrap
    round and loop back through the opening creating the finished
    product. The slip knot, or the double loop knot refers to the
    construction of the knot itself, not how it is utilized to create
    a loop, or tie a horse.

    To speak of a slip knot and imagine that’s the end of it reveals
    ignorance of the variables in construction AND application. I
    cannot emphasize strongly enough the importance of the variables.
    With the same construction, the behavior of a 1\8" nylon cord and
    a 1\2" Manila rope are drastically different. Look at the photo
    of the large loop. Notice the end of cord is wrapped around
    itself creating the wrist loop. Further notice that the edge
    appears to be turned up a little. This is because the cord is
    compressed by the slipping knot when pulled tightly. If this
    material were a large round Manila rope, it would still compress
    and reduce the slipping factor in some measure. If it were a
    small, soft round cord, the compression would be more pronounced
    and slipping much more difficult. Since this cord is not round
    and is a small, soft synthetic, the compressing creates flanges at the
    junction that makes slipping literally IMPOSSIBLE once the leads
    are pulled tightly.

    How did this happen? I don’t have a video of Patsy’s performance,
    but the large loop evidence that didn’t reach the wrist gives me
    a pretty good idea of the physics of the failure.

    Take one end of the cord and bring it around the wrist. To make a
    loop, it must then be looped around itself. Following the over
    and under, the short part of the U is brought under and over the
    bottom with the end going through the opening creating a slipping
    knot. In this photo, I cannot tell if there is one or two loops.
    It doesn’t matter because the physics are the same.

    At the time the slipping knot is loosely made, the cord will slip
    and the wrist loop could be carefully worked down to contact the
    wrist. However, if someone doesn’t know the physics and there is
    a pull of the leads (angle of pull a factor as well) with the
    loop a long way from contacting the wrist, the slipping knot
    slips down and compresses the main cord and the slipping ball
    game is over. It is locked. It is not going anywhere. THIS is
    what the photo reveals as evidence. Only the most green of the
    green would make this blunder. It clearly reveals that this
    person is a rank amateur attempting something without a clue as
    to how to go about it. Does this read desperation, or what?

    The cord around JonBente’s neck shows the same basic construction
    except that two turns are clearly visible. With minor variation,
    it reveals the same error and same fatal locking effect as the
    “wrist ties.†( BTW, I found that in duplicating these ties and
    knots, a large, flat shoelace from a work shoe is an acceptable
    substitute in appearance and performance.)

    As for the notion of “four loopsâ€, “ankles bound†and that sort
    of stuff, all I can say is, “Good golly, Miss Molly, did your
    optometrist die?†“Hmmm, off your medication again, right?†Or -
    “Don’t you know LSD is illegal?â€

    “And what would be the point in tying someone with a slip knot
    which stays adjustable, I ask myself. For couldn't the person
    easily free himself from the ligature then?â€

    This is just one of the many flaws in the staged crime scene.
    The first clue is that proper binding of wrists is wrists close
    together with wrap around and finish between wrists to create
    effective handcuffs. If for some reason, the hands are wanted
    apart, it is as you said, you don’t bind with something that will
    slip off. The perp didn’t have to worry about that because the
    â€ties†never got to the wrist. Do you think the RST is having fun
    trying to make something clever out of pronounced ignorance and a
    consummate mess? :)

    “TIA for your help!†(Ibid)

    I thank you. I am most pleased to see someone take an interest
    and devote time and energy to understanding this very very
    critical evidence. Had LE taken such an interest, the Ramseys
    would have been put in jail a long time ago.
     
  5. Jayelles

    Jayelles Alert Viewer in Scotland

    On the subject of knots... one thing we have on common with the ramseys is that we are a sailing family. With the exception of my daughter, we've all taken sailing examinations and of course, knot tying is an important part of this. I'm not certain if the Ramseys took exams - but I'm guessing "not" on the basis that they do tend to be rather vocal about their achievements and I think we'd have heard if they had taken and passed sailing exams.

    However, knot tying is very, VERY important on a boat and I simply do not believe that the Ramseys males at least weren't well versed in this. It astonishes me when they continually distance themselves from every teensy bit of evidence in this case.

    Another point about knots is that anyone can make a complicated looking knot with a bit of cord. Years ago, I went into my son's bedroom to find that he'd spun a web out of knitting yarn and it covered the entire room. I ended up cutting it all off with scissors as I couldn't begin to untie any of it. He was about 8 years old at the time.
     
  6. rashomon

    rashomon Member

    LOl, my kindergartners do this too from time to time. When watching them, I'm often amazed at their creativity and ideas when it comes to constructing such an intricate web of loops and knots. When they do that, the kids are very focused and concentrated. They know exactly what they want to do.

    But I think the person who tied the ligature around JB's hands was not focused at all. That person was nervous and panicky, rushed for time, and hastily trying to put some kind of ligature around a dead (or almost dead) child's wrists and neck.

    From Steve Thomas' book (p. 41):

    "A single loop of white cord was around the right wrist, tied on top of the sleeve but so loosely the doctor easily slid it free. There were 15 1/2 inches between that loop and a loop on the other end, which once apparently had bound the other wrist."

    So one loop had already come off and the other was so loosely around the wrist the doctor could easily remove it.
    Those loops seem to have had had no function at all in terms of restrainment: I'm a layperson, but tying a loop on top of the sleeve seems to be a very stupid thing to do: for theoretically, the person only needs to tug at the sleeve with the other hand (fifteen and a half inches allowing free movement), and the sleeve can be removed from under the ligature, making room for the hand to free itself.

    All this proves to me that the cord was tied on a person who was not conscious, i. e. who needn't have been restrained to keep her from moving or running away. But what's the point in tying up a dead person? None at all, unless the perp wants to dump her in a river, but then he would have tied up the whole body differently (after wrapping it in a bag for example).

    These ligatures scream staging, and they scream poor staging.
     
  7. Moab

    Moab Admin Staff Member

    Welcome to the forum! I wholeheartedly agree with you!

    :aprop:
     
  8. Elle

    Elle Member

    I agree with all you have to say too, Rashomon, and yet the Ramseys are still free.
     
  9. Elle

    Elle Member

    I took a macramé course when it was all the craze years ago, Jay Of course I had to follow instructions, and there was a teacher there, but my plant hangers were more complicated than the staged garrote.

    For sure the Ramsey males must have known how to tie knots on their boat.

    That must have been one big Charlotte's web in your son's room. :)
     
  10. wombat

    wombat Member

    Hi Rashomon. Great hat, by the way. Appropriate!!

    I believe Mr. Ramsey stated once or twice early on, to BPD, that he started to untie JonBenet when he "found" her.
     
  11. EasyWriter

    EasyWriter FFJ Senior Member


    "Very stupid thing†is representative of the whole
    staging fiasco. I cannot imagine a staged crime scene that looks
    any more staged than the Ramsey one. Blunder after blunder marks
    it as the most inept staging in history. Were it not such a
    tragic situation, it would be amusing to watch the RST try to
    spin the fatal flaws into something clever.

    The evidence, which evidences a messed up mind in panic, is, by
    the RST, “interpreted†as the work of a mastermind intruder
    manipulating the investigators. When truth is exposed in such
    measure and clarity that not even the RST can deny it, they learn
    nothing. They simply do a double shuffle to dance around the
    truth by denying the truth while admitting the truth.

    For years, they have talking on and on about the kidnaped scene,
    bound, gagged and “garroted†to death. The bindings that didn’t
    bind have been exposed to the point of no logical denial. This is
    just one example of the gross incompetence of the perpetrator. It
    just one more item of evidence exposing the staging and pointing
    right at the Ramseys. I know it. The RST knows it, but they still
    deny the truth. At another forum, the incompetent “wrist tiesâ€,
    are addressed in the thread, "Why the fake "bindings"?"

    How clever to substitute the word, "fake" for grossly incompetent. Now ain't that just too cute? :) Well, maybe not so clever at that. Anyway you slice it, they have just admitted the crime scene is not what it appears, and not what they have been claiming for years. What next?

    By all means, tune in. I’m sure you will amused at the extended cleverness
    of an intruder who "faked" the wrist bindings. Don’t go away. There
    is more to come. It is literally impossible to get a
    circumferential furrow out of a pulled noose, slip or non slip.
    Sooner of later, they will have to admit this. I just can’t wait
    for the next thread, “Why the fake "grroting?â€
     
    Last edited: Mar 14, 2006
  12. EasyWriter

    EasyWriter FFJ Senior Member

    My name is Grebbs, Sgt. Matt Grebbs. I’ll explain the LINEUP to
    you. Each of the suspects will be numbered. I will call off the
    name, number of charge. If you are sure, or not to sure, have
    them held. The questions I ask are merely to get a natural tone
    of voice. Do not pay much attention to their answers as they
    often lie.
     
  13. rashomon

    rashomon Member

    Thanks for the welcome, wombat. I'm glad to have been directed to this great forum by poster Little (who is also a moderator on the Crime and Justice JB message board).

    In terms of your post: suppose it was like John Ramsey said, i. e. that he started to untie her hands. But one ligature was still around her right wrist when Dr. Meyer first saw JB's body at the autopsy.
    And that ligature was loosely tied on top of her sleeve (I think there are also pictures which show this). Would any kidnapper tie a ligature on top of a sleeve? Certainly not. Would any kidnapper leave 15 1/2 inches space between the hands of a person whom he wanted to tie up? Certainly not, because the person then could move both her hands and try to loosen the ligatures.
    Did the investigators ever call in a rope expert? For if not, chances are that they didn't know more about knots and loops than average laypeople.
    I hope I didn't dream this because the name was so funny ('Tassle' for a rope expert, lol!), but I read in a post that this Mr. Tassle allegedly examined the ligatures. What were his conclusions?
     
  14. EasyWriter

    EasyWriter FFJ Senior Member

    LASSOING THE TRUTH ADDENDUM

    The thing about contradictions is that they compound; and in the
    compounding, eventually show up as so absurd that heretofore
    staunch supporter of an idea abandon it in favor of what they
    believe to be a more tenable position. This is what you now see
    happening on some forums. When it is exposed with such definitive
    clarity that the “wrist bindings†bound nothing, the “defense
    shift†is to admit to this fact, admit that it was staging, but
    still weave scenarios alleged to exonerate the Ramseys. At least,
    one such person appears to hold this notion. This person has no
    desire to question me, yet, presumes to question my logic in
    attaching the Ramseys to the staging. Although, I have already
    explained this at least a dozens times, I am not at all averse to
    doing it again.

    The question not asked and answered by this person is how do you
    attach the staging to an intruder. There is a natural law that
    states an individual must always act in what the individual
    believes to be in self interest with the intent to gain and\or
    protect. The outcome may not be what is hoped far and intended,
    but the natural law does not vary. Of course, this poses the
    question as to what a long gone intruder intended to gain or
    protect by staging. Notwithstanding all the scenarios of unknown
    and projected psychological prompting, the simple truth is a long
    gone intruder would have no motivation since no gain or
    protection could come from such action.

    The staging tries to project the picture of kidnaping, bound and
    gagged, sexually assaulted and murdered. Staging, by definition,
    is an effort to hide the truth. In this case, to hide the skull
    fracture as primary by setting the kidnaping, binding and
    strangulation scene. If long gone, or caught, staging would not
    lessen the crime to benefit an intruder; hence, no motive. The
    only person who stood to gain is not someone long gone, but
    someone present who intended to gain by drawing attention away
    from the skull fracture as primary. Add to this the gross
    incompetence of the staging and it comes up desperation to
    deceive.

    Keep in mind the scalp was not lacerated, so the severe skull
    fracture was not immediately visible. Had the cause of death been
    ruled death by strangulation without notice of the skull
    fracture, the staging would have successfully diverted attention
    to where it was desired. In the alternative between death by
    strangulation and death by severe head trauma, the stager chose
    to present strangulation. This translates to evidence that the
    stager had a negative view of the skull fracture and did not want
    this as an issue with questions to answer. What else but
    culpability motivates a person to go to such lengths as to try to
    stage a crime scene without even minimal knowhow? Who else but
    one or more of the Ramseys stood to gain or protect by the
    staging?

    Also, consistency is the nature of evidence. In addition to the
    obvious inept staging, all the staging material whose source is
    known was attached to and found in the Ramsey residence. The
    evidence includes the dead body of JonBenet. Staging, indeed, the
    most incompetent staging imaginable, logically points nowhere
    except directly at the Ramseys.
     
  15. rashomon

    rashomon Member

    EW, according to your theory, the Ramseys had truly thought that JonBenet was already dead when they staged their garotting scene, because they knew how severely she had been injured by the blow to her head.
    Which is why I have no doubt at all that they knew the head injury would be detected during the autopsy.
    I think their staging was a desperate attempt to muddy the waters: make it appear like a bizarre and sexually motivated crime, vaguey hoping that the investigators would buy the head-bash as part of the staged crime scene too: for example, a perp finally bashing JB's head in to quicken her death.
     
  16. EasyWriter

    EasyWriter FFJ Senior Member


    Yes, I do believe they believed JonBenet was dead from the head
    trauma. However, I believe you attribute forethought to them
    which is not in evidence anywhere in the staged crime scene. I
    doubt that they thought of autopsy at all. The note was written
    not from a psychology of “what will they believeâ€, but from a
    psychology of “what I want them to believe.†You can tell by
    several oddities in the note that there was no anticipation of
    probable reaction. As I mentioned in my note analysis, this
    reveals a mental condition of lack of capacity for empathy.
    Anything even approaching exhaustive explanation of this mental
    malady would be very lengthy, so, I won’t get into it here.

    Every day, I shake my head in disbelief as I observe a simple
    case extended beyond nine years with no official resolution. The
    official investigators would have to move up a few notches to
    reach the level of the Keystone Cops. Never before in my life
    have I witnessed such effort to evade irrefutable facts. The
    thinking skills, rather the lack thereof, are truly amazing in
    the most negative way. The lack of rudimentary observation, basic
    comprehension, and elementary deduction are most disturbing.

    If you sleep through the night, awake to a cloudless sky, but
    observe water dripping from trees and running down the street,
    you have a pretty good idea it has been raining though you did
    not see it happening. You can deduce it had been raining from
    your knowledge of certain entities and knowledge of the
    relationships between those entities. Your knowledge is knowledge
    of cause and effect. This is the thinking you use every day to
    survive and accomplish goals.

    The official investigators in the Ramsey case took a different
    tact. There was (and is) no effort to examine the evidence and
    follow effect back to cause. To the contrary, actual evidence is
    simply ignored to the end result of endless theories that have
    nothing to do with the evidence, nor resolution of the case. If
    this mental mess is deliberate, it’s rather scary. If not
    deliberate, it’s more scary.

    Consistency is the nature of truth (evidence). What this means is
    that regardless of the scope and type of the endeavor,
    identifying even one truth sets the course of the inquiry. To
    reach a correct conclusion, all else must relate to this truth in
    a non contradictory manner. Suppose we isolate an area and see if
    we can extract a reference truth from it.

    The photo of the cord embedded in JonBenet’s neck has been
    distributed and viewed on an international scale. What does this
    evidence tell? Does it tell of a brutal murder and vicious
    strangulation as is usually declared? Or does the evidence tell a
    different story?

    For the cord to embed in the flesh, one of two things had to have
    happened? 1. The size of the loop had to meet the neck and
    decrease diameter with force to embed. 2. The size of the loop
    remained the same while the size of the neck increased to meet
    the loop with pressure and embed. Which is true? How does the
    answer effect the direction of inquiry and ultimate conclusion?
    How do we find the answer? By utilizing the other evidence in
    thinking manner that does not contradict any other evidence, nor
    contradict any natural law of physics.

    Actually, the answer is practically self-revealing. Even if a
    loop had been constricted to embed, when released the lack of
    pressure lets the loop move away from the neck. The permanent
    circumferential embedding (and degree of embedding) could have
    come about only by a non slip loop acting as resistance against
    an expanding neck due to post mortem swelling.

    Verifying evidence: No direction of pulling, or force of pulling
    the noose can effect circumferential strangulation. So, even if
    there were a adjustable size noose, circumferential furrowing is
    literally impossible with it. Add to this the undisputed fact
    that the loop was tied around the neck and all the evidence
    converges upon the fact of a non slipping loop dismissing the
    idea of strangulation by reducing the size of the loop. It just
    didn’t happen. If she were still barely alive, some possible
    strangulation in tying, yes. Circumferential strangulation by an
    adjustable noose, no way.

    This is not “just my opinion.†It is physical evidence subject to
    testing and verifying beyond a shadow of a doubt. Any theory
    predicated upon the idea of an adjustable noose is not derived
    from the evidence. Any claim of duplicating the construction of
    the staged crime scene and effecting an adjustable noose is
    either a deliberate lie, or a mistake due to dismissing the truth
    the physics tell. Sure, you may loop knot one cord around another
    and get it to slip - IF you don’t pull it too tightly. However,
    IF it is pulled tightly and severely compresses the cord, the
    slipping is over. This is exactly what Dr. Meyer’s report and the
    photos show.

    There is more if you like. Hair entwined in the cord and knot
    around the neck tells of effort made to tie closely as opposed to
    making an adjustable noose and putting in over the head. Hair
    entangled in the cord used in mummy wrapping the handle tells
    that this was done after the tie around the neck. Since the tie
    was made closely and the handle added last, it tells of no intent
    to tighten the “garrote†by pulling the handle, which would not
    have worked to do so anyway. All the direct evidence and all the
    corroborating evidence leaves not even a whisper of evidentiary
    doubt that the loop around the neck was of a non slip
    construction, therefore, labeling as false any and all theories
    that contradict this irrefutable evidence.

    I have no doubt things will go on pretty much as before. The RST
    will keep on evading and denying the truth. They string together
    false claim after false claim, silly scenario after silly
    scenario and amusingly claim “based of facts.†I dream of a day
    in court and the “show me†environment. Where will the RST be
    then? Ans. Anyplace but court.
     
  17. rashomon

    rashomon Member

    EW, I'm not sure if the Ramseys believed JB was dead - but all this is speculation.
    And you are right that the crime scene doesn't indicate that they might have had a following autopsy in mind. But the crime scene doesn't exclude such a possibility either (that they tried to build the head injury into the scenario). We just don't know.
    But no doubt did the perp realize that JB was very severely injured and would probably die from that injury, or at least remain severely brain-damaged. The person who delivered the head blow to JB did not want to take responsibility for the action by turning himself/herself in to the police. That was the main motive imo, and that motive was so strong that I think any concern for JB's life played second fiddle. And everything which was done after inflicting the head injury flowed from that decision: the perp wanted to save his/her hide.

    You said that this is a simple case, and I too think it initially started as a simple case: a parent snapped and lost it and irrepairable damage was done.
    One can read about cases like that in the paper almost daily.

    But what makes the case a standout is the amount of (poor) staging which subsequently was done there, and the failure (or unwillingness) on the part of LE to identify as a staging a situation unparalleled in criminal history (as far as I know): a dead body found in the home together with a ransom note.
    The ransom note with its political message not adding up with the garrote and sexually motivated crime staging scenario; Kidnapping for ransom not adding up with the staged garrote scene either.
    And what's the point in leaving behind a ransom note if the kidnapper obviously could not abduct the child at all?
    All this is a jumbled mess, and come to think about it, indeed, the mess was so big that it is simply inconceivable that anyone in LE could have swallowed all these contradictions without realizing that it was exactly the total mess and inconsistency in the staging which pointed to no one else than the parents themselves: they desperately tried to stage a scene (in severeal stages I think) and fouled it up.
    And still got away with it despite all the mistakes they made because no one held their feet to the fire; instead they got kid glove treatment right from the start until the present day.

    EW, interesting observation on your part that the ransom note points to a mental condition lacking capacity of empathy.
    This would point to a sociopathic personality structure, and I think a person like Patsy would fit that profile perfectly. For only a sociopathic personality type lacking empathy would for example put her child through pageants in which the children are trained to act like precocious Lolitas. Pageants like that are a form of child abuse imo.
    Once, after a pageant, JonBenet was chilly in a restaurant and wanted to put her jacket on. Patsy refused: "You're still on show", she told JB.
    Lack of empathy indeed. And that lack of empathy showed in many other things which Patsy did.

    Another thing: in one of your posts, you mentioned (Im paraphrasing) that it is possible that 'some strangling' was done when the cord was tied around JB's neck.
    I have diffficulty with the word 'some' here: I always thought that 'strangle' was something definite, like e. g. pregnant: one can't be 'a little' pregnant.
    Therefore I thought whenever the word 'strangled' is used, it means that the person died from asphyxiation caused by strangling. But I'm no native speaker, and may be wrong.
     
    Last edited: Mar 15, 2006
  18. Elle

    Elle Member

    Little is well known on this board, Rashomon. She was the one who told me about you, as I posted before. She was very impressed with your posts.

    I can see what she means by the above post. Excellent!
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 17, 2006
  19. EasyWriter

    EasyWriter FFJ Senior Member

     
  20. The Punisher

    The Punisher Member

    I agree with that assessment.


    They call me the Punisher because I leave the guilty in torment, withering in the face of their own darkness. No one can help you when the darkness falls. No one will catch you if you slip.
     
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