Lawyering JonBenet

Discussion in 'Justice for JonBenet Discussion - Public Forum' started by Spade, Sep 5, 2006.

  1. koldkase

    koldkase FFJ Senior Member

    I once saw an attorney from Denver on TV discussing the fact that he worked in Security for Lockheed Martin at the time JB was "kidnapped," and that their protocol in the event of a "terrorist kidnapping" was that every exec working for that company would be at risk, notified, go into an immediate, pre-designed protection by security provided by the company, etc.

    But this lawyer said NO ONE CALLED HIM OR NOTIFIED HIM about the threats in the ransom note on Dec. 26th. He didn't understand why, and he said this outright.

    He said that this was a breach of the company's own kidnapping protocol.

    You see, what almost nobody talks about anymore (because what info do we have about it, though it once was discussed somewhat) is that the kidnapping of any LM executive's family by a "foreign faction" already had a plan in place for a company response. This is not some aberation, after all. In many third world countries, or even countries like Italy, kidnapping is in fact a well-structured and long dealt with industry. It's why Mercedes has its D class of cars with bullet-proof glass and construction, like the one Princess Diana was in when she was in her fatal crash. Very rich and powerful people who travel the world over use these cars for a reason. They travel in countries with unstable governments, where different terrorist groups engaging in civil war and military coups use kidnapping to finance their existence, buying weapons, ammo, etc.

    A company like Lockheed sells weapons the world over. Our country, as everyone knows, buys plenty of fighter planes, etc., from it. Other countries do, as well.

    I suggest if you really want to know how corruption works, rent the movie with Nicolas Cage where he portrays an arms dealer. Believe's fiction in the most elemental ways. It's truth in the worst way.
  2. Watching You

    Watching You Superior Bee Admin

    Okay, I don't get it. Why would these entities protect John Ramsey, who was a little fish in that vast ocean. Who was Ramsey to Hal Hadden? Who was the real power player in all this? Bynum? Hadden? But, why?

    Money? Ohmygawd, they did it for money? Is that what happened?
  3. heymom

    heymom Member

    Maybe Ramsey had some information that would damage someone else if allowed to leak out. That would gain him some special treatment. And money doesn't hurt either. But the political favors speak to something in addition to money.

  4. Spade

    Spade Member

    My Opinion

    IMO no bribe money has ever changed hands in this case, other than Haddon kicking over Kobe's rape victim to LinWad so Kobe could pay her off and LinWad would get a cut.

    IMO It was all done "in the best interests of the child"; the unprosecutable child/children that were responsible for JonBenet's death.
  5. koldkase

    koldkase FFJ Senior Member

    The BPD could not see them or have access to them because Hunter REFUSED TO GET A SUBPOENA FOR THEM.

    It's that simple.

    Even if the records could eventually be thrown out of court, they could be subpoenaed and LE could SEE what calls were made to and from the house on the night a child was murdered.


    Think about it. Would you consider it POSSIBLE that the killer might have contacted the Ramseys in some way? To check to see if they were home, for instance? As a stalker, maybe? Claiming to be a cable company salesman?

    If you were the parent of such a dead child, WOULDN'T YOU OR YOUR SO-CALLED INVESTIGATORS BE ASKING THOSE QUESTIONS?

    NO WAY that there weren't legitimate reasons for those records to be supoenaed by LE IMMEDIATELY.

    There is NO ARGUMENT for that not being done.






    And to make themselves FEEL HUMAN, INSTEAD OF LIKE THE MONSTERS THEY HAVE BECOME IN THEIR GREED AND LIES...they convince themselves it was AN INTRUDER! Now, no REASON to get the phone records and hound the poor, poor, innocent Ramseys....

    Chit! Now I've gone and got started again.... :rage:
  6. koldkase

    koldkase FFJ Senior Member

    I think it was as simple as John Ramsey worked for Lockheed Martin, and LM didn't want the world press to be reporting that an executive who worked for them had a molested daughter six years old murdered by her father/mother/brother/some or all.

    It's not good publicity.
  7. koldkase

    koldkase FFJ Senior Member

    But Spade, why would some benevolent power, for "the best interest of the child/children," then go after countless other innocent people to cover up what was not prosecutable at any rate?

    That makes no sense to me. Child records would be sealed forever, anyway. Why offer up so many bus victims when simply having the child counseled in private with records sealed would be so easy?
  8. Spade

    Spade Member


    IMO they all went pathological or more bluntly they became baffled by their own BS.
  9. amster

    amster Member

    ugh....David Lane on O'Reilly.....Boulder is a city of "tolerance". But Lacy screwed up and will probably be gone.

    "Getting the government off our back" is the motto in Boulder.

    This guy is Churchills lawyer...not a peep about Tracey.
  10. JoeJame

    JoeJame member

    I've always believed this was a big conspiracy......relating to politics and/or religion. Isn't that the world in a nut shell, concerning most everything? but it is terribly sad when the death of a 6 yr. old is allowed to be handled in this way. Our world is going down hill and has been for a while. I believe if all the truths were to ever be told/known in this case, we'd all drop our jaws to the floor in horror.. I always say be the change you want to see in other people, but with each passing day, that becomes much harder for me. Especially when innocence is made to suffer.
  11. wombat

    wombat Member

    No, regarding this entire post.

    Especially this part. No. This knoll is not that grassy.
  12. Spade

    Spade Member


    Are you saying that I am lying? Let me repeat myself:

    "A good friend came very close to getting his hands on the 12/25/96 phone records for John Ramsey, Mike Bynum, Peter Hofstrom, and Bryan Morgan. However, the records are sealed by order of the White House."

    You may disagree with my opinion but please don't attempt to dispute my account of a personal experience. Why lie in a case where the truth is more bizarre than anything you can dream of?
  13. JoeJame

    JoeJame member

    I believe it!!! That is exactly what I believe. The truth in all of this is going to be way more bizarre than any of us can imagine....I'll bet my bottom dollar on it. thanks for the info spade.
  14. wombat

    wombat Member

    I don't think you are lying. I believe you when you say that a good friend came close to getting phone records, whoever that friend is. I wish he got the records, then we wouldn't have had this Karr fiasco. What I don't believe is that the "White House" interfered in the investigation of the JonBenet murder case.

    I can dream of very bizarre things, have been involved in nasty politics, and have been affected by bigger crimes than this one, and I know that Big Presidents Do Bad Things. Rumors fly, conspiracy theories crop up, and the simplest explanations go by the wayside.

    I guess I reacted to the cloak-and-dagger tone of your post. Plus I am a Clinton fan, full disclosure. (Bad, bad wombat!!)

    Access Graphics was a distributor of servers for AutoCAD, and of other now-obsolete hardware for 90s-era programs. It was bought by Lockheed to fit into their design business, after Access got a contract to distribute Sun Microsystems servers etc. Lockheed only held the company for a couple of years before selling it to GE, where it still resides.

    I don't for a minute think that John Ramsey had anything to do with ICBMs or some of the other fun things Lockheed builds. He was a purchased asset that was divested when the company revised its business concept. The company had "one billlion dollars in sales" over a few years, with a margin, I am GUESSING, of ten percent over that time, maybe. These are not Halliburton dollars.

    Regarding Hal Haddon - I read and understand all the posts here that point arrows at his firm for blocking the investigation. Phone calls were made, and another rich white guy was protected. I would bet the proverbial left nut of BobC that all of that was more about separating John Ramsey from his $7 million net worth than anything else.
  15. Spade

    Spade Member


    I was told directly that access to the phone records for the numbers requested was blocked by the White House. Hal Haddon is a dot the i and cross the t kind of guy. That truly is why he gets the big bucks.

    Edited to add: Full disclosure: I am also a big fan of Bill Clinton. IMO Money had nothing to with this coverup. Haddon convinced everyone involved that they were acting in the best interests of the child. However, I will guarantee you that the child was NOT JonBenet Ramsey.
  16. koldkase

    koldkase FFJ Senior Member

    Well, maybe, wombat.

    But I don't think it's any accident that the Ramseys were able to keep their phone records out of the hands of LE, and when a year later they "turned over" selective records, surprisingly, the month of Dec. on one cell phone was blank, though the months before on that phone had plenty of activity. Of course, without a subpoena, LE did not get to see those previous months of phone records, either. Not any of the Ramseys phone records were gotten by subpoena. A year went by, and the Ramseys CHOSE which records they handed over to LE then. To this day, no subpoena for the Ramsey phone records has ever been requested by a Boulder DA.

    Sorry, this is NOT POSSIBLE IN ANY MURDER INVESTIGATION IN THIS COUNTRY. Not without POWERFUL STRINGS being pulled. I don't believe John Ramsey had that kind of money.

    The White House? I have no idea. If Spade has seen/heard something about this, I'm willing to listen and grateful for him sharing.

    But I believe not that AG was some top defense contractor's important little secret, but that Lockheed Martin is like any huge, powerful government backed war machine: they do what they want, when they want it, for any reason they choose to do it.

    I, too, am a Clinton supporter. I believe he was a great president and I don't find a man getting a blowjob a national issue I care about. I don't believe Spade has stated that Clinton was asked to help cover up a child murder in Colorado. A lot of people work for the White House and the President. Spade gave no details, so I have no idea what he saw or believes. I do believe that if you know the right people, things get done for you.

    And that is what I think happened in this murder case. I also believe that Haddon's firm could have done the whole deal right there in Colorado all by itself, because it's the land of the rich and famous, ski resorts, uber celebrities, where the golden rule will always apply: he who has the gold rules.

    But I have to say that I have never seen such a legal mess in my life, and whatever the truth is, I doubt any of us would even believe it if we knew all the facts.
  17. sue

    sue Member

    Even hearing that the Ramseys got "lawyered up" within a week of the 'kidnapping' was shocking and just not what you expect innocent people to do. Hearing that the 'lawyering' might have happened even before her body was 'discovered' is just mind boggling.
  18. wombat

    wombat Member

    You were told directly BY WHOM? Who was told BY WHOM that the numbers were blocked BY WHOM at the White House? Without sources, I regret that I can't discuss this as anything but rumor. JMO.

    I love a good high level conspiracy as much as the next guy, but I need more here.....


    Editing - KoldKase beat me to the post - Love the blowjob reference!!!

    Really, I can buy that some feds helped Haddon and/or did his bidding, but the original post was ...shhhh....I know somebody who knows somebody who says the White House is involved. I say, please tell me who and why, or I can't play.

    I can tell that Spade has some juice, I would like to hear more. With plausible attribution.
  19. koldkase

    koldkase FFJ Senior Member

    In that case, I guess we know if Lacy simply blundered into an "intruder" arrest, she must have been given her orders before the first press conference: dump it.

    Because no way was a defense attorney going to try to defend Karr with the world watching its every move and NOT ask for things the BDA NEVER DID in ten years of ALLEGED investigation.
  20. koldkase

    koldkase FFJ Senior Member

    Oh, our minds have been boggled for years over this case. Even O.J. didn't have it this good.
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