Let's throw down, jams

Well, DeeDee, I'm not sure how you missed Team Ramsey's denials about the "hair" being Patsy's, but maybe we're definding "Team Ramsey" differently. The swampsters have never stopped denying that hair came from Patsy. For years. And years.

As for the blood on the pillowcase, it's clear to me that JB's blood was found on the pillowcase and I put my argument in a thread, which I linked. If you don't see it, then I guess we differ there.

Your theory that the paintbrush was left inside JB is interesting, but I've seen no evidence at all to support that, at least that I can remember, and remembering is not so easy anymore, so there's that.... I believe the autopsy dirrectly disputes it, as well. I have seen it theorized that the tip of the paintbrush was left inside her and is "unrevealed" evidence, but again, that's pure speculation without any support I've seen, so it's hard to do more than say so, unless you would share your sources to back that up.

I agree, of course, about the prior molestation. And your idea that the strangulation was done so it would be a visible means of death is interesting. I haven't seen that one before. I'm going to ponder that. Thanks for sharing.

 

Lay the Jam down...

Lay the Jam down boys
Lay the Jam down
Toss it on toast
Or rye or a stale loaf
But lay the Jam down

Bar-B-Q her liver
Until it does quiver
But keep away the young
As you roast her forked tongue

Lay the Jam down boys
Lay the Jam down
Do not look back
As the Pirate makes tracks
At old Hickory town
To lay the Jam down

gl Koldkase, dancing with her happy feet:

 

HAAHAHAHAHAHA!!! Priceless Greenie!

 

Gosh, Greenie, how did you manage to get a video of me performing? I thought security was napping! :sleep: :sleep:

 

I am sure Team Ramsey denied it (and plenty more) but I merely said I didn't recall seeing where. I didn't recall reading about the pillowcase either, and as far as the paintbrush, it is only one of several theories I mentioned, not necessarily mine. I know there are others who think that the missing piece was left inside, though I am not among them. I think there was a splinter, though. Since all of my mentioned paintbrush theories are just that- theories (speculation if you like)- obviously there are no sources.
I do feel that although the autopsy does mention cellulose, I feel that means a splinter or shard of wood. Not the whole paintbrush piece. BUT- I do not rule out the fact that if a paintbrush piece WAS found inside her, that the coroner could have deliberately left it out, simply mentioning "cellulose". The DA's office (among others) could have pressured Mayer to withhold certain findings. And I am sure Boulder isn't the only district where that happens from time to time.

 

staging

Well staging this crime as a sexually motivated crime would make some since no matter who was doing the molesting could get by with it if LE would believe the staging. Even the garrote could lend credibility to that scenario according to Wecht. BUT then we have a RN that doesn't have anything to do with sexual motivation and that makes me wonder if 2 people where staging and they didn't know what the other was doing.

 

Actually, I don't see this as a crime staged to portray a sexually motivated killing. On the contrary- the wiping of the pubic area and the redressing and covering of the body seem to me as if any sexual molestation was being HIDDEN, not advertised. The vaginal trauma and injuries were not discovered until the autopsy. Had that not been the case, nothing about the appearance of the body would indicate a sex crime. The garroting alone is not an indication of an erotic asphyxiation, as garroting in and of itself is not a sexual crime. It CAN be, but in that case I would expect the body to have been left in such a way as to "advertise" that sexual molestation had taken place. If this crime had truly been an intruder/pedophile sex crime, JBR would have had much more evidence of that, as killer pedophiles usually like to "display" their actions. There would certainly have been no attempt to redress, coverup, and wipe down the body. IF the evidence could have been traced to someone known to JBR, that was reason enough to cover up any evidence of sexual molestation, both previous and immediate.

 

I have to agree with you here, Dee Dee. To have gone to the great lengths the perpetrator/s went to, to cover up previous molestation, it seems they did their best to make it look like a pedophile attack; even having a go at creating a garrote and failing in this attempt according to Delmar England's garrote analysis.

http://www.acandyrose.com/05262001delmaranalysis2.htm

I have never been able to see John Ramsey in this role of molesting JonBenét and thought it may have been one of the brothers (?). John Ramsey did have a mistress while married to his first wife, therefore I felt John molesting his youngest daughter was not in his league(?). Other posters have stated their reasons why I could be wrong(?). I still have trouble accepting it was John.

 

My first thought would not necessarily be JR. I waver between that and the brother(s). The only other thought I have about JBR's internal injuries and the bleeding that occurred (and was later found to have been wiped away) would be that it was caused by PR's overly zealous douching of her daughter after soiling accidents. That is also a possibility, and having caused such an injury with resulting bleeding that would definitely be something PR and JR would want to cover up.

 

For All!!!

Speaking of ACR......Tis The Season......Hint, Hint........it would be a shame to NOT be able to reference her site by this time next year, so if we have any Secret Santas out there.....Now would be the time to Ho Ho Ho!!!

 

SO SAY ALL OF US, RR! After all the hard work BJ has done for the justice of JonBenét Ramsey!

 

The Rest Of The Story...

Post murder, it seems to me that the Rams did everything imaginable to distance themselves from any hint of molestation. If I remember correctly, JR said (paraphrasing): “The thing that hurts me the most was the talk of her being molested. “ We commented on how odd that statement was. He was not hurt the most by her death, but by any hint of molestation. (Which he never admitted happened) If a parent looses a child and the Coroner states that she has been molested, wouldn’t ANGER be the obvious reaction of an innocent parent? (Anger and a determination to find out who did this dastardly deed?) Yet, no one in the Ram family displayed ANGER. It seems to me that the entire “cover-up“ was an elaborate attempt by the Rams to distance themselves as far as possible from any involvement in the molestation factor. They were (and are) still in denial; denial that they had anything to do with JBR’s death, but, even greater is their denial that any molestation ever took place; let alone their involvement in same.
The unconscionable absolution of the Rams by Lacey BROADCASTS to the uninformed world that the Rams are†innocent, after all.†Only those who have taken the time and effort to study the facts know differently. The entire RST have the kind of evil blood on their hands that can NEVER be washed away with soap and water, or any known chemical. Although invisible to human eyes, these sinful stains cannot be hiden from spiritual entities on the other side. (Especially a little girl, buried six feet under, in the cold, clay soil of a Georgia cemetary.)
gl

 

staging

I mention sexual molestation staging because of the handle of the paintbrush that was used - some people think that was used to hide other previous molestation. There are those who believe that an ambulance wasn't called and staging begun because of fear that the sexual molestation would be discovered. If so, there would need to be some sort of staging to lead away from a member of the family being involved in that aspect.

Perhaps the stager believed if the molestation were covered up by wiping her down and redressing her that the vaginal trauma wouldn't be found by an ME but that would be a dream. So the best way to stage it if someone wanted to point away from the family would be as if a pedophile did the crime and not as if a kidnapper did it. I guess maybe they believed staging it as a kidnapping with the body still in the house was the way to go and the molestation would not be found but that was a really lame idea (that apparently worked)

 

Sometimes, we have to forget what we already know to look at how the perpetrator viewed events and the crime.

We know the results of the autopsy report, but no one in LE had that luxury when they responded to the Ramsey's 911 call.

Patsy Ramsey specifically told the 911 operator, "We have a kidnapping." She didn't say, "My daughter is missing" or "My daughter is gone." Patsy set up the idea it was a kidnapping from the very beginning.

When LE arrived at the Ramseys, they were immediately shown the "ransom note." Patsy had also called over a bevy of friends to be present while the Ramseys allegedly waited for the kidnappers to call, even though the ransom note said JonBenet would be "beheaded" if the Ramseys so much as talked to a dog.

The Ramseys played their part, and finally, John had to "find" the body for LE. Those evil kidnappers hadn't beheaded JonBenet, but they had APPARENTLY strangled her with a ligature. There was no head wound visible, and the "gentle molestation" also wouldn't be found until the autopsy.

To everyone present when John brought up JonBenet's stiff body, in full rigor mortis and already smelling of decay, it looked like she was dead as the result of a kidnapping gone bad. (It is hard to believe John had the nerve to "ask" if JonBenet was dead with her stiff as a board in his arms, but he needed a reason to disturb the crime scene. He had to pretend to know JonBenet wasn't dead, and that he was trying to bring her quickly for EMT care.)

The Ramseys had already lawyered up, and they quickly left the house, never to return. The contamination of the crime scene, the moving of JonBenet's body, the LE mistake of not separating John and Patsy immediately and questioning them alone, and the allowing of Burke to leave the house without questioning gave the Ramseys time to get away with the "kidnapping scenario." When the autopsy results became known later, it was too late. The Ramseys refused to cooperate with LE, and justice for JonBenet was doomed.

It was ASSUMED JonBenet had died of strangulation until ME Meyer found the fatal head wound after pulling back JonBenet's scalp. So convincing was the staging idea of strangulation, no one had even considered there might be another component to JonBenet's death. In addition, the "gentle molestation" of JonBenet's private parts was not found until the autopsy.

Meyer found bifringent material consistent with something on one of Patsy's paintbrushes. Because there was some bleeding present and other damage, Meyer concluded the paintbrush was inserted. It also could have been a gloved finger with a speck from the paintbrush on the glove - especially if the gloves were used to construct the ligature with the broken paintbrush handle.

Meyer reported evidence of prior molestation/damage to JonBenet's vagina, which made the more recent damage looked like an attempt to cover up prior molestation that, if found, could be blamed on the kidnappers. All evidence of the recent molestation had been cleaned up, and the lower half of JonBenet's body wiped down, so that there were no fingerprints and evidence as to who had done the "cover-up" molestation.

The ligature had worked to keep attention away from JonBenet's fatal head wound. The cover-up molestation worked to confuse the issue of previous and multiple molestations/continual damage. Until the autopsy, none of this was known. The day the Ramseys walked free from JonBenet and the house on 15th Street, the botched kidnapping scenario had worked. It did exactly what it was supposed to do - buy them time; enough time to get behind their wall of lawyers and stay there.

 

Never mind jameson

I am *SO* going to miss the Mame and Eve show when the doubleBB closes.

 

True. It's like watching the closing of a really, really bad theater production, peopled with "actors" who don't know that they can't act nor that the script itself is horrendously bad. Instead of improving their skills through analysis of their failures, they reinforce their illusions and bask in the sycophantic flattery of their equally clueless relatives and friends who have no idea what good theatre is. In this case, the swamp cast is hamming it up to the end.

Kind of like jams and her "play", I can follow up with that analogy.... She seems to have no ability to discern between good playwriting and the truly AWFUL. Since hers is decidedly in the latter category, that's a huge gap of judgment missing there.

And that is exactly where the RST and IDIs live: in that HUGE gap of judgment, unable to discern between logic and illogic, between fact and speculation.

Still, I won't believe the show is over until I've thrown my last tomato and the fat lady has sung. :curtsey:

 

And THAT, my dears, is that. That says it all.

 

Did you swallow a dictionary wummin? :floor:

 

Oh my. Have I misspelled and misused a dozen words again? Sorry, the spell check in my head is crashing on a regular basis now.... :doh:

 

Cherokee, that's a good summary of this murder. I have recently had an "aha" moment about that paintbrush, but everytime I try to write about it, I get frustrated and just let it go. I've done this so many times now, I can't remember if I did actually post about it. I guess it doesn't matter anymore anyway, as it's just a new thought I have about the events of that night, and usually everyone has their own ideas already.

Like Barbara, I feel the ransom note is the one piece of irrefutable evidence that will always point to Patsy, IMO, and your analysis of it has been so devastating to the online spin of the RST, they ignore the ransom note altogether in their desperation to "clear" the Ramseys. While the note got the Ramseys out of the clutches of LE initially, it is a two-edged sword that will always haunt them as THE testimony against the Ramseys, written by Patsy herself.