Madeleine McCann thread?

Discussion in 'Madeleine McCann' started by heymom, Nov 3, 2009.

  1. heymom

    heymom Member

    I have searched and searched the forum and cannot find any trace of the Madeleine McCann thread. Can someone point me to it?
  2. zoomama

    zoomama Active Member

    Dear Heymom, It's been 1 1/2 years later and I'm looking for the same forum or any archives for Madeleine McCann also and don't find anything either. I have it on good authority that no threads are removed from here so I'm stumped.

    Moderators?????? Any help here? Thanks in advance.
  3. Moab

    Moab Admin Staff Member

  4. Jayelles

    Jayelles Alert Viewer in Scotland

    Wiki rebuttal of some case myths

    One of the problems with the case is that there was strict judicial secrecy surrounding the case in the early days and the tabloids published a lot of very damaging misinformation. Unfortunately, this spawned a hate campaign led by former (ie failed) solictor Tony Bennett who was also a failed politician (he was ejected from no fewer than three political parties). Bennett and his small group of followers continue to spread their bizarre theories on the social networking sites and are proud to claim 710 signatures of support on a petition which has been running for almost a year now (the McCann's petition has almost 70,000 signatures now). I should mention that Bennett's petition has approximately 50 signatories who obviously think they are signing the McCann petition.

    Anyway, I have been involved in creating a wiki rebutting 50 claims about the McCann case which Bennett claims are "facts" which the British media aren't telling us about the McCann case. I can say, hand on bible that I didn't come across a single quote in this leaflet which had been given correctly. He paraphrases forum posts and claims them as quotes by the McCanns. He even invented an entire telephone conversation between Gerry McCann and Clarence Mitchell and uploaded it onto the internet. Case followers will know it's a fabrication - an attempt at "humour" but nowhere does Bennett offer a disclaimer to the effect and casual readers might be duped into thinking it is authentic. He also wrote a sick parody of a Christmas carol about Madeleine and has made lewd suggestions about a photo of her.

    Here is the rebuttal

    Sadly, Bennett's latest disciple is non other than self-educated US profiler Pat Brown. She has written an ebook about the case outlining what she describes as an "imagined scenario". Her ebook is introduced with a disclaimer warning the reader not to misinterpret her opinion as fact. She also emphasises the fact that she has not worked on the case and has not interviewed anyone involved in the case. With the exception of Kate McCann's book and the police files (which she clearly has not read in any depth) her list of references are purely anti-McCann.

    If you read her ebook, please also read my rebuttal of it:- Brown

    Her theory quite simply is a very far-fetched conspiracy theory which requires the reader to disregard over 20 witness statements.

    If you want a quick reference Ramsey case comparison - think E2 and her Santa did it and all those "clues" which she saw in everything Santa and Janet ever did.

    The first time I Pat brown came to my attention, was when I read a blog post she had written in October 2007. IN it, she slammed Kate McCann for never having directly appealed to Madeleine's abductor. At the time of this blog post, the McCanns (including Kate on her own) had appealed directly to the abductor on no fewer than three occasions. The first was the day after Madeleine disappeared and was captured by TV cameras to become an iconic clip about the case. The second smilarly so, when Kate McCann made her appeal in English and then in Portuguese "Please don't hurt her..."


    Brown was selling her ebook on Amaxon for £2.12 a pop. Too late, I put a tracker on her sales and I missed her peak sales period. However, over the past three weeks she was making about £100 per week of it. A few days ago, Amazon pulled it worldwide because the McCanns took legal action against it for defamation. Brown wants to convince the world that Madeleine is dead and that we shouldn't be looking for her. The McCanns are desperate that people believe she is alive and findable because whilst they accept it is possible, there is no proof that she is dead. The anti-McCanns remain convinced that she is dead because of the dog "evidence". This is depsite the dog trainer himself warning that the dogs are just a tool. The "cadaver" dog actually alerts to cadaver odour AND blood from a living person. Neither dog is capable of distinguishing between individual human beings. Only the discovery of a corpse can verify the accuracy of the dogs. IN a recent case of a missing person in the UK (Shannon Matthews), the cadaver dogs alerted in the apartment of a relative. It later transpired that the cadaver odour had come from the furniture which was second hand and whose previous owner had died. Fortunately, Shannon was found alive and it could be determined that this had been a false alert.

    Pat brown is desperate to sell her ebook. For several weeks she has been trying desperately but unsuccessfully to get an interview with the media about it. When her book was pulled by Amazon, she was urged to make it a free download. Instead, she has uploaded onto some other ebook sites and she is still charging for it. I have a fundamental issue with people who sell misinformation as she is doing.

    For starters, she suggests that Gerry McCann found Madeleine dead when he did the first check at 9.05pm (this was half an hour after they left the children asleep in the apartment). Brown's theory has Gerry not returning to the restaurant, but rather sitting in the apartment for twenty minutes whilst he tried to decide what to do about the Madeleine "situation" (Brown's words). She then suggests he ran through the streets of Paraia da Luz with his daughter's corpse before dumping it on a beach more than half a mile away. She suggests he was seen by an Irish family called Smith at 10pm. We know he ordered his meal before her went to do his check. Brown does not address this uneaten meal or why no-one was worried about his non-return to the table.

    Brown believes that Kate McCann was oblivious to her daughter's demise until she did her check at 10pm (no explanation re Kate's concern about her husband's non return/uneaten meal or why she did her own check at 10pm when Gerry had not returned from his!). Brown then has Gerry McCann miraculously back at the apartment (at the same time as she has the Irish family seeing him half a mile away STILL with Madeleine). Now Gerry is telling Kate and their seven friends that poor Madeleine is dead and that he has disposed of her body. Without hesitation, Brown has all of the friends instantly agreeing to cover up Madeleine's death and the police are called immediately. She offers as a motive for this callous conspiracy that they were concerned that they would get into trouble for leaving their children unattended. She does NOT explain why all nine of them immediately told the police that they had done just that.

    It's an absurd theory which has the McCanns moving their daughter's decomposing body three times - the last being to take her to either Spain or England. Brown believes it's quite feasible that they put Madeleine's (by now putrifying) body into a rucksack and took it home in the plane to bury it in another happy-to-cover-up-a-child's-death relative in England.

    Cause of death? Brown suggests an overdose of Calpol sedative tablets for toddlers. That Calpol is not a sedative was one of the earliest myths to be debunked seems to be of no concern to her. It has been pointed out to her on the forums and she is dismissive of this fundemental blooper saying "Well there is Calpol Night"... Yes, there was Calpol Night and it came on the market in September 2007 - Madeleine went missing in May 2007. To this she reponds - well some other sedative then.... THAT pretty much sums up her concern with doing the research and getting her facts right. If anyone points out her misinformation (and there is plenty of it) she calls us "haters". Well I am a hater of misinformation that's for sure. If you are going to accuse someone of covering up a heinous crime, please base it on facts. Please don't try to make a buck or a thousand from "imagined scenarios" about people who are trying to find a missing child.

    What really floored me about Pat Brown though is that several weeks after publishing her ebook accusing Gerry McCann of callously dumping his daughter's body rather than seeking medical help, is that she posted a totally different theory on facebook saying that THIS was her theory. Instead of Gerry working alone whilst his wife dined obliviously nearby, she had Kate raising the alarm that madeleine was missing and then all of the friends returning to the apartment and finding Madeleine's body. Stunning!

    The fact is that there are more than a dozen witnesses who are not connected to the McCanns who verify that Gerry McCann was raising the alarm and running about the apartment complex looking for Madeleine in the minutes after 10pm. Apart from the obvious contradiction Brown makes where she has Gerry being spotted by the Irish family at 10pm half a mile away from the apartment and still carrying Madeleine, it would take him some time to reach the beach from the witness point, dispose of a body and then get back to the apartments.

    She also asks ther eader to completely disregard the eyewitness sighting of Jane tanner - Why? Because Tanner was a friend - every reason to lie. She misleads the readers when she says that tanner did not tell the McCanns about her sighting in the days following the abduction. This is grossly misleading. Tanner did not DISCUSS her sighting of a man carrying what could be Madeleine McCann away from the apartments. She DID inform police of it immediately and the police told Gerry McCann fairly quickly (I don't have precise times but he knew about it the same night). Tanner says she didn't discuss it because she didn't want to add to their torment re the implications of this. The way that Brown portrays it, it's as though hasn't informed anyone of her sighting.

    Basically, her theory does not add up. The McCann group were not all close friends of the couple. Despite the obvious unlikelihood of these people IMMEDIATELY agreeing to cover up a child's death and kicking into action IMMEDIATELY to make it seem as though they were looking for her, they have no motive for risking a potential jail sentence for people who weren't close friends.

    Brown allows no time for shock, disbelief, arguments, anger at gerry for dumping her body on the beach... This is not a Ramsey situation where they had all night to form a plan. Brown has them doing it instantly. She says herself that from a profiler's perspective, there is no way the McCanns could have gone to dinner and behaved normally if they knew their daughter was dead. There are several independent witnesses who say the McCanns appeared quite normal that night - laughing and joking with their friends.

    I am stunned this evening to learn that Brown is to be interviewed on Websleuths radio. I sincerely hope that Tricia will ask her to address the infeasibility of the "imagined scenario" she wants to sell to the American public.

    Edit to add link to blog about contradicting theory:-
  5. Little

    Little Member

    I just bought Pat Brown's book on her thoughts on the case. It will be interesting to see her perspective on it.
  6. Jayelles

    Jayelles Alert Viewer in Scotland

    I'd be really interested to hear your perspective on it Little. It would be particularly interesting if you give a second perspective after reading the rebuttal.

    http://madeleinemythsexposed.pbwork...the Disappearance of Madeleine McCann (UPDATE

    What is most interesting about Brown's ebook is that it has been harshly criticised by both sides of the debate. This is what the HardlineMarxist had to say about it (she is one of the foremost anti-McCann campaigners)

    The fact is, Brown basically says in her ebook that IF the McCanns and their friends are all conspiring to cover-up a child's death and IF we disregard their statements on the grounds that they are all lying....then THIS might have happened... And she goes on to outline a theory which is not based upon established facts and evidence. For that matter, she could have given any theory at all (one of the more outlandish theories touted by the anti-McCanns is that Madeleine died before they went on holiday and that the McCanns had a "substitute Madeleine" with them! If you disregard everyone's statement, you can come up with a whole bunch of "imagined scenarios".

    Unfortunately, Brown also ignored the fact that there are dozens of statements from staff and guests at the hotel which, when pieced together, corroborate the McCann & friend version of events which is why the final report states:-

    At the end of the day, there is a child who is still missing and given the international aspect to the case, she could be anywhere. It is therefore vital that people all over the world continue to believe that she could be alive and findable like Elizabeth Smart, Jaycee Dugard and Shaun Hornbeck (?). The deluge of misleading information about the case has been bad enough without people adding to it with "imagined scenarios" which ask us to disregard established facts.
  7. Little

    Little Member

    IMO right now it comes down to what people want to believe. There's no Madeleine to prove or disprove, which leaves forensics, experienced investigators, known actions of the parents, established facts and verified evidence. Advocates from either side are not evidence of anything but people with a view point and doesn't advance the search for the truth of what really happened to Madeleine. Pat Brown has seen a lot of the ugly in this world. Maybe that influences her view point. I haven't read her book yet but will read it with an open mind. I'm hoping Goncalo Amaral's book will be published in English sometime.
  8. zoomama

    zoomama Active Member

    I have to say Little that you said in a very good manner what I've been trying to say about this case. I have read Pat Brown's book and I was left with lots of questions. The most important question is what happened to Madeleine. And the very fact that no one can answer that is troubling for both sides. I have no idea if the McCanns are being truthful in all of what they say. They are guilty of some kind of child neglect for leaving their children unattended in the house during the evening hours while they dined with friends. Not once but on 5 evenings if I remember what they said. Who would do that in a situation that wasn't in their own backyard and their own house? (I guess it goes on all over the universe) For some reason they have polarized folks both from their own home town as well as here in the US. That is a shame for them.

    IN an interview on Webleuths radioblog last evening with Tricia and Levi Page, Pat Brown told of her being banned from Amazon. She doesn't blame Amazon at all since they are a business and have to protect themselves. Her book was a self published book so there is no "big" publisher to protect either her or Amazon for any liabilities. So they banned her when the law firm from England felt she was in error. I am over simplifying the case because it does get complicated and I can't even touch that. Pat Brown offered theories but didn't accuse the McCann's. I am not defending either her or the McCanns. I have no opinion about either side simply because I don't know enough to make an intelligent opinion. So hopefully no one will fire away at me for this response.
  9. Little

    Little Member

    I can't get past the feeling/opinion/theory, whatever you want to call it, that the McCanns were less than truthful. Whether that was due to feeling guilty about leaving 3 very small children to their own devices while they were out dining with friends, or whether there is a more sinister reason, I obviously have no idea. To me, things just don't square up.

    Pat Brown's book being pulled due to pressure from the McCann's attorney ratchets up my suspicion. They had the (now) ex PM Gordon Brown stepping in very early in this case. To me, another red flag. They certainly had some friends in high places stepping up to deflect any criticism. That doesn't make them guilty, but it also doesn't make them innocent.

    I couldn't agree more zoomama that the priority here is a missing little girl.
  10. Sabrina

    Sabrina Member

    I recently bought Pat Brown's first book and it tells about her background. It is quite interesting as I was surprised she is not former FBI. She rather is a self educated profiler who studied and took every course she could find (by trade she was a houswife/deaf signer/interpreter) after there was a murder in her small town-- she suspected her boarder and went to the police and they wouldn't listen to her. She then after educating herself, set up a website and was contacted by media during the DC sniper case because she is located closeby in MD! She became an instant success as a TV guest and subsequently does most of her work probono. I really think she brings up great points and makes alot of sense, I really like her.

    I did not follow the McCann case too much but I tried to find the book, I guess it is only available as a download? (and not on Amazon)
  11. zoomama

    zoomama Active Member

    Sabrina, yes it is only on a download for an e-reader device. Amazon dropped it from their inventory on the kindle. (I was lucky enough to get it while it was still available.) It's too bad that I can't share it with you. She does bring up some good points. She isn't out to crucify anyone.
  12. Little

    Little Member

    Wednesday, February 1, 2012

    Press Release: Cease-and-Desist Letter issued to Gerry and Kate McCann, parents of Missing Madeleine McCann


    Gerry and Kate McCann, parents of the missing Madeleine McCann, find themselves for the first time at the other end of a potential legal action. Top defense attorney, Anne Bremner, counsel to the Friends of Amanda Knox and the families of Rebecca Zahau and Susan Cox Powell, has issued a cease-and-desist letter (content posted below) on behalf of American criminal profiler Pat Brown whose book, Profile of the Disappearance of Madeleine McCann, was removed from sale by Amazon following a claim by the McCanns that the book was defamatory. In recent years, the McCanns have instructed their solicitors, Carter-Ruck, to send numerous cease-and-desist letters to people who have publicly questioned their possible involvement in their daughter’s disappearance nearly five years ago while on family holiday in Portugal.

    Next week, on February 8th, retired solicitor Tony Bennett faces English prison as the McCanns’ fight to shut down his efforts to bring focus to aspects of the missing child case that point to the parents’ possible involvement. Also, the McCanns have sued the detective on their daughter’s case, Dr. Goncalo Amaral, for libel and have had his book, Truth of the Lie, pulled off the worldwide market. The trial is scheduled in Portugal for April. Now, Pat Brown has fought back for the cause of freedom of speech and justice, alleging that the McCanns have interfered with her right to conduct business and have damaged her professional reputation with their successful removal of her book from sale. On Monday, Pat will leave for Portugal to continue her quest for truth and justice in the case of Madeleine McCann.

    Source & entire story here:
  13. zoomama

    zoomama Active Member

    I for one wish Pat Brown much success with her quest across the pond. Again I have no bets for either side except for truth and the finding of Madeleine or getting at the truth of what happened to her.

    Right now for me the story of what happened that night she disappeared is a bit hazy. But I still feel that the 7 other adults present have some knowledge and should come forward once and for ever.
  14. Little

    Little Member

    I agree zoomama. IMO the McCann's cluttered up this case due to their involving any big name they could to run interference for them. That's what brought down the speculation that they and their friends knew more than they were saying. They didn't let the investigation run its course but instead were so arrogant in thinking that they should be above suspicion when the most important thing in the world to them should have been locating their child. Anything they went through paled in comparison to what she may have been going through. I don't feel sorry for them at all, I feel sorry for Madeleine, who IMO was abandoned both before and after.
  15. Jayelles

    Jayelles Alert Viewer in Scotland

    There is no doubt that Pat Brown is a good speaker and one of her strengths is that she makes a convincing case regardless of what she's speaking about.

    First of all, I have no desire to tread on anyone's toes or to cause any tension here where I consider many of you to be good forum buddies. I know this case has divided opinion here but I would beg you to keep an open mind about the depth of Pat Brown's knowledge about the McCann. The fact is that she has no supporters on the pro side of the McCann case and relatively few on the anti side because of her proven, dubious famiiliarity with the basic facts of the case (like saying the McCanns dismiss the Smith sighting when the opposite is true and that they "fled" Portugal when their flights had been booked well in advance to coincide with the expiry on their accomodation lease).

    Pat Brown doesn't have one coherent theory of what happened. Rather she has a load of "imagined scenarios" which she throws out but which don't actually connect with each other under scrutiny. She believes that the Gerry McCann went back to the apartment to check on his children and use the bathroom and that he found Madeleine unexpectedly dead behind the sofa in the living room. Instead of seeking medical help or even calling his wife, he decided instead to run through the streets of the town to the beach and dump her body.

    Brown then theorises that when Kate McCann (legitimately) found Madeleine missing at 10pm, Gerry told her that Madeleine had died suddenly and that he'd gotten rid of her body. She goes on to suggest that he propose they pretend an abductor took her in case they got into trouble for leaving the children unattended. According to Brown, Kate immediately agreed to this as did all seven of their friends and that they have all kept up the pretence for five years now.

    She has never attempted to explain why all of the group immediately told the police that they left their children - the very reason she gives for their cover-up "pact". In fact, she does not respond to questions about her theory in general.

    When it comes down to it, if you are going to make up theories as to what happened, you could pretty much make up anything - including an alien abduction. But all anti-McCann theories require some element of conspiracy whether it's the group covering up for Gerry or the British and Portuguese governments covering up for the group. Intruder theories require no conspiracy - just a guy seizing an open opportuity to snatch a child.

    Popular anti-McCann theories are that the McCanns and their friends were taking part in a government cloning experiement that that the Madeleine seen in Praia da Luz was a clone. Others believe she never actually existed and that every photo of her is photoshopped. Fantastic? I wish I wasn't being serious here - these are the lengths some people go to in order to make the evidence fit a McCann did it scenario.

    Pat Brown doesn't like the McCanns but she has also admitted in a radio interview with Jom Bohannon that if they were to be up in court tomorrow, she would have to defend them because there is no evidence they did anything wrong. She says her theory is only an "imagined scenario" and that if it has no merit, the McCanns should just roll their eyes and laugh it off.

    Her trip to Portugal
    Regarding her trip to Portugal, she lost a lot of credibility with her first "report" because she stated that no "intelligent abductor" would risk entering the McCann apartment because :-

    1) The complex was well lit
    2) The McCann apartment is very exposed - a "veritable fishbowl".

    She did not take account of the fact that following Madeleine's disappearance, there was an extensive and highly publicised upgrade to the lighting in and around the complex - including spotlights over the apartment itself.

    Nor did she take account of the fact that since Madeleine's disappearance, the trees and shrubbery which virtually concealed the apartment entrance, have all been cut down - making it a "veritiable fishbowl" five years on.

    It was an embarassing blooper and one which brought her under severe fire from both camps and she spent considerable effort sanitising it. However, you can read a comparison of the before and after versions here:-

    She also argued that a child predator would never have chosen a holiday resort to stalk a victim but would instead have preyed in one of the residential parts of town or "any" nearby village. I ask what those members here make of that? Which makes a preferable stalking ground for a predator - a holiday resort full of transient holidaymakers and workers, or a residential area/village where people live all year round and know their neighbours?

    Brown proposed that the McCanns may have hidden Madeleine's body in an existing grave and whilst in Portugal, she searched for possible burial sites. Incredibly, she investigated several by digging into them. You can read about this at the link below. I'm not sure what the view on digging in graves is in the US, or in Portugal, but there are laws against it here (archaeologists require permission).

    (NB - the owner of the Regrets and ramblings blog is Bren Ryan who owned the biggest anti-McCann forum of all - the3Arguidos).

    Legal Actions
    Claims that they take legal action to silence anyone who doesn't agree with their version of events are completely false. The only time the McCanns take legal action is when someone's actions threatens the search for Madeleine. Any cash they win in settlements goes straight into the Madeleine search fund.

    To date, they have sued:-

    1. A few newspapers who published over 100 false stories about the case (including that Gerry wasn't Madeleine's biological father).

    2. Goncalo Amaral, the detective who lead the case in the earliest days and who was removed from it. Amaral wrote a book which accused the McCanns of covering up Madeleine's death. The McCanns sued him for defamation and won the right to have the sale of the book stopped in the interim. After a couple of unsuccessful appeals, Amaral won the right to have the books restored to sale until the libel trial (a human rights judgement). The libel trial was due to take place in February, however Amaral's lawyer resigned at a fairly late stage of proceedings and the case was postponed to allow him time to find a new lawyer.

    3. The McCanns have also taken action against controversial British ex-lawyer, ex-politician Tony Bennett who wites and distributes leaflets which accuse the McCanns of covering up Madeleine's death. Bennett capitulated to this action but is currently facing 153 contempt of court charges. If anything, the McCanns have been really patient with Bennett and have issued warning after warning when he broke his agreements. They have also made it clear that they don't want him imprisoned, they just want him to stop his campaign of harassment against them.

    4. In August 2011, the McCanns sent a letter to Amazon complaining that Pat Brown's book which proposed they covered up their daughter's death was defamatory. Amazon immediately withdrew the book until both parties had resolved their differences. Brown never contacted the McCanns or their lawyers to find out what the precise objections were and she continues to sell the book through other outlets such as Barnes and Noble and Smashwords.

    If someone writes a book accusing you of a horrible and heinous crime whilst simultaneously stating that this is just "imagined" and that there is no proof, how should you react? Especially when people are believing that theory has merit?

    The now
    Five years on and Kate McCann is still running the Missing Madeleine campaign full time. She also fund raises for the Missing People charity. She has learned to deal with the hate mail and death threats saying quite simply that none of them come close to the pain of losing Madeleine. Gerry returned to work late in 2007 because he needed to support his family. He is a consultant cardiologist working for the NHS (state medical care). He is involved in many heart projects and some cutting edge developments too.

    Scotland Yard are performing a review into the case because there was no centralised investigation. The Portuguese Police (PJs) had files, the McCann investigators had files, the Leicestershire Police in England had files but we know from past experience (i.e. Yorkshire Ripper case) that you can only successfully complete a jigsaw if you have all the pieces in one place. They took several months to gather all the data from the different sources, collate it, analyse it and now they are developing some lines of enquiry. They are reputed to be using some state of the art reconstruction software which enables them to feed in all the witness statements and then perform "what if?" scenarios.

    Last week came the fantastic announcement that the Portuguese Judiciary are also to conduct a review of the original investigation with new investigators (fresh eyes).

    What the press don't report
    There are a lot of shocking facts in the files which have received little press coverage - for example:-

    There were several break-ins in the Ocean Club apartments in the weeks preceding Madeleine's disappearance. One was only just previous and was into the apartment directly above (Mrs Fenn). The occupant disturbed the intruder and he ran off. In another, the bold thief made off with a plasma TV!

    Several months before Madeleine's disappearance, a woman who was babysitting in the very same apartment heard a noise outside of the apartment and went to investigate. Hearing a rustle she was alarmed and thought it was a rodent, but saw that it was instead a man lurking in the shrubbery. This incident also took place on a Thursday night which the babysitter recalled as "Tennis Night" at the complex. Madeleine was taken on a Thursday evening.

    Goncalo Amaral himself commented on these incidents and said that the Hotels played down such crimes - presumably because they aren't good for business. In the case of the burglaries, there was no sign of a forced entry and police felt that the instruders had obtained copies of the apartment keys.

    I'd be happy to supply sources/links for these if anyone is interested as the documentation is in the case files.

    Another generally unreported fact is that there were a number of incidents in the vicinity prior to Madeleine's disappearance where an intruder broke in and assaulted a child in a holiday apartment bed. Here is the Telegraph (a respectable British newspaper) reporting on cases listed in the Portuguese police files:-

    The fifth anniversary is approaching as is Madeleine's ninth birthday. A number of initiatives are planned including the publication of several abductor theories which fit the facts. Significantly, these abductor theories require none of the conspiracy elements which all of the McCann did it theories depend upon.

    If anyone is interested, I will be happy to update you on these.

    Sorry this is long. Hope it doesn't upset anyone :)
    Last edited: Mar 18, 2012
  16. Jayelles

    Jayelles Alert Viewer in Scotland

    One other thing that's been lost in reporting is that the 7 McCann "friends" weren't all especially close friends of the couple.

    The McCanns were very friendly with one couple and one of the other couple were also friendly with that same couple, but didn't know the McCanns especially well. The 7th "friend" was a grandmother who was tagging along and not a friend of the McCanns as such.

    They had no motivation whatsoever to help them cover up a heinous crime and risk prosecution and professional and personal ruination for themselves.

    I know that if we were invited by some friends to join a group of their friends for a holiday and one of the crowd's child was to suddenly die and the parent asked me to cover up the fact that they'd callously dumped the child on a sewage covered beach, I'd immediately and unhestitatingly report them to the police! I would not risk everything by becoming an accessory to what might have been murder.

    I see that another missing child has been found alive after 8 years in the US. He/she? was kidnapped by a babysitter apparently. It just goes to show how we should never give up :)
  17. Jayelles

    Jayelles Alert Viewer in Scotland

  18. zoomama

    zoomama Active Member

    Hi Jayelles, once again your passion for the truth is evident. I have said from the start that I am not on one either side of this story but only want the missing Madeleine to be found. It has been some time now since I read Pat Brown's book and I've forgotten much of it in any detail. But I do recall that she wasn't so much accusing the McCann's as trying to get to the truth. The police investigations were not the most thorough to begin with. And perhaps that is the basic problem here. If one is on one side or the other there are some muddied waters to cross I feel. I'm shocked with what some of the rag type papers have put out there as to theories as you have reported them. This beautiful precious child must be found. I pray that she will be and that peace and harmony will return to her family.
  19. Jayelles

    Jayelles Alert Viewer in Scotland

    Hi Zoomama. Brown certainly said she was trying to get at the truth, but I'm not sure how she hoped to achieve that by disregarding almost 20 witness statements in order to present her "imagined scenario".

    There's a partial rebuttal of her book here complete with misinformation, contradictions etc:-

    http://madeleinemythsexposed.pbwork...the Disappearance of Madeleine McCann (UPDATE

    Personally, I think it's unhelpful to investigations when people in the public eye put out "fictionalised scenarios" (as Pat Brown sometimes describes her theories). Perhaps it's a cultural thing because our pro-judice laws forbid it in case it impacts on justice being served.

    Especially in missing person cases, a lot depends upon public awareness. None of us are under any disillusions that Madeleine maybe dead - is probably dead. But until there is concrete proof of that, I think it's important to keep a positive outlook - i.e. keep looking.

    We hear these wonderful stories about Jaycee Dugard (sp) and Shaun Hornbeck and Elizabeth Smart. Okay, most of them are in America but it goes to prove that some abductors do keep their captives alive and that it only takes one alert and public spirited soul to free them.

    There's Elizabeth Smart married and positively glowing with health and happiness. I know that she's such an inspiration to families like the McCanns.

    Thank you for being a wonderful person and keeping your mind open! X
  20. Jayelles

    Jayelles Alert Viewer in Scotland


    Regarding my passion for the truth. I suppose it boils down to a bit of a fear about how misinformation can literally destroy peoples' lives. This is partly one of the themes of the Leveson enquiry (has that been reported in the US?).

    The media report a false story which whips up public feeling against a person. Later on, it seems that no amount of rebuttal or retraction will fix the damage because once a myth is "out there" it will circulate cyberspace for all eternity.

    There are still a bunch of people who hate the McCanns and who will never forgive them for leaving their children alone in the apartment whilst they ate. No matter how close the restaurant was, no matter how frequently they checked - the McCanns will always be the demons in some people's eyes (seemingly, even moreso than the person who took Madeleine).

    There was a time when that bothered me, but not now. I can accept it and even respect it if they are honest enough to admit it (and a few do). A lot of these people will still say they hope Madeleine is found alive so we have some common ground!

    However, I have saved examples of where someone has admitted that they hope Madeleine is dead because her parents don't deserve for her to be alive. Personally, I find that disgusting.

    I don't have a particular "thing" for the McCanns other than a strong sympathy for their plight in missing a precious child. I've never tried to contact them. I don't make fan posts about Kate in the way that I used to see some of the RST post about PR.

    I don't defend their decision to leave the kids alone but I will say that what they did was more than what a baby listening service would have provided and they are not illegal in Europe. However, I do feel incredible dismay when I read about the efforts to hurt them by a small group of people. They've had horrible things sent to them through the post and they've had people entering their property with goodness knows what intentions. They have two small children at home still and have had to get police protection on occasions and turn their home into a virtual fortress. Some people say well why don't they move? To me the answer is obvious. That is Madeleine's home. Her bedroom is untouched. If and when she comes home, she may remember it and that would help in her rehabilitation back into her family.

    Bottom line is I don't understand the need to keep hurting this family five years on by creating "imagined scenarios" which don't fit the known facts of the case, aren't going to help with the investigation, could possibly hinder the investigation and which serve only to poison more minds against the victim's family. I worry that a "vulnerable" mind will be reached and poisoned and that this time someone will succeed in a violent act against the family.

    So yes, if that's a passion for truth and justice, I am deffo guilty as charged :)

    ETA - Pat Brown has spent considerable time hanging out with some seriously dodgy characters on the social networking sites. Sometimes she asks them for information about the case:- Campaign#PatBrownnbsp

    We know that there are a couple of journalists researching what the media call the "hate campaign" against the McCanns and it's possible that there may be a tv programme about it too in the wake of the Leveson Enquiry where journalists admitted making up stories about the couple.
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