Madeleine McCann thread?

Discussion in 'Madeleine McCann' started by heymom, Nov 3, 2009.

  1. zoomama

    zoomama Active Member

    Jay, in this morning's paper there was a small article stating that Scotland Yard has now begun another look at the police inquiry from the Local police (is it JP?). I'm sorry I don't have my paper right handy as I share it with my neighbor every day. So I'm not exactly sure when or if this "new" investigation will take place.

    Are you aware of any thing like that taking place? And no I'm also not aware of the "Leveson inquiry". Could they be one and the same thing?
  2. Jayelles

    Jayelles Alert Viewer in Scotland

    They are not the same thing Zoomama.

    Scotland Yard are reviewing the McCann case (review as opposed to investigate). The case is unusual in that there have been several investigating agencies. Firstlt, the Portuguese police, then there are the various private detectives which were hired by the McCanns in Spain and in the UK (PIs are actually illegal in Portugal). Finally, there is a British police who also conducted their own bits of the enquiry. For example, they followed up on many of the interviews and did a lot of the forensic work.

    A few decades ago, we had the famous Yorkshire Ripper case which because of the geography of the killings, fell into the jurisdiction of several different constabularies. This resulted in there being case files in different locations but no central resource. If there had been a central investigating agency, the case would almost certainly have been solved quite early on.

    You guys have the FBI to deal with cases which cross state boundaries but we don't have such a body in Europe. Therefore, the McCann case was stuck with several different investigating agencies which were not under a central control.

    The McCanns lobbied for a while to have all the files brought together and looked at by one central agency so that a more effective investigation could take place. Finally last summer, they were successful in getting David Cameron (British Prime Minister) to order a "review" of the case using Scotland Yard.

    As you can imagine, it's been a long process because there are tens (possibly hundreds) of thousands of documents produced by all the different agencies.

    Recently, I had to give a statement to police. I really didn't have much to contribute but they still managed to fill out three full pages of A4 (letter size) so one can only begin to imagine the documentation relating to a missing child investigation. Plus it all had to be translated, collated, compared.... So it's going to take a while and it's costing millions (something which not everyone is happy with). Having said that, if this review turns up a lead which leads to the capture of a criminal or criminal gang, who can put a price on it?

    I'm guessing that the translating and collating part has been done now because it was reported very recently, that Scotland yard (SY) are now ready to start re-interviewing key witnesses. They are also using some state of the art reconstruction software which can compile/recompile the scenario using different values of all the variables (timings, positions etc).

    Last week, it was announced that Portugal has also assembled a team who are going to go review their part in the investigation which is wonderful news. As far as we're all aware, SY & the PJs having been working co-operatively on this. That is certainly the official report.

    Re Leveson. It's an investigation into press practices. This all came about as a result of the exposure of some very dirty tricks being used by members of the British media - i.e. phone hacking. An enquiry was ordered to investigate media practices and numerous high profile cases have been reviewed as case examples. The McCann case has been fairly well mentioned as one of the worst examples of false media coverage. A couple of months ago, we saw journalist after journalist giving evidence about how they had reported stories which they knew to be false and even fabricated.

    One of these stories highlighted by Leveson was the alleged body fluids in the McCanns' hire car - a false story which still circulates today, claimed as a fact. Then there was Kate's diary. It was taken as evidence, photocopied and translated into Portuguese. There was nothing in it and the guy in charge ordered for the photocopies to be destroyed. Instead, it found its way into the hands of the tabloids and they published it selectively. We know now that the translations weren't accurate either and that it was these erroneous translations which were reported in the newspapers - proving that the British newspapers who published the diary had obtained the Portuguese translations and not the English photocopies.

    The Leveson enquiry isn't just about the McCann case though. There have been a lot of shocking stories emerging of dirty press practices and a lot of angry responses to the revelation that the media published stories which they knew weren't true. After all, who wants to pay for lies?

    I cannot begin to imagine how awful it would be for someone to circulate a false story about you - that you were cruel to your children or had a criminal record or had caused someone's death. Naturally, the people in your real life will know it's not true, but there have been a quite alarming number of cases over recent years of people who have suffered violence and terror at the hands of people (strangers) who thought it was true. There have been cases of parents whose children have tragically committed suicide who have suffered horrible attacks on memorial Facebook sites. In Britain, it's officially been named "trolling" (a term we've always used on the forum) and is now being recognised and treated as a hate crime.

    For me, one of the worst things is that the lies never really go away on the Internet. I saw this with the Ramsey case and I am seeing it with the McCann case. Someone will always be reading it for the first time and end up repeating it to a whole new audience. It doesn't matter how often you rebut it, it'll keep popping up, so why waste your breath? Who wants to play an eternal game of whack the rat! Some people will believe what they want to believe anyway. A group of us are building a wiki site to rebut McCann case myths and we aim to use primary sources wherever possible.

    Pat Brown knows that much of what she claimed as fact in her ebook is not fact. Yet she has never corrected it. A friend of mine recently published her first novel to Kindle and she emailed all of us saying "If you find a typo, please let me know because it's so easy edit on Kindle". Brown says she is working on a re-write of the book so presumably she will address misinformation then, but also presumably her fans will have to (re)buy the corrected version too.

    My view is - as long as people are honest. As I said before, some people cannot get past the fact the McCanns left the children in the apartment and if five years on, that's all they've got to add to the discussion, fair enough because it's a fact. Boring discussion, but a fact nevertheless :)

    Similarly, if anyone wants to put forward a McCann did it theory which is based on the facts, that's fair enough too. Unfortunately, the only McCann did it theories I've seen either ignore established facts, base themselves on long-discretied tabloid myths or they involve a high level of far-fetched conspiracy. Having said that, nowadays I'm only really really irritated with misinformation. The weirder theories are IMO a fascinating insight into the opiner's mind!

    The forum I belong to has some anti-McCann members who'd rather post with the pros than with the loony fringe of cloned Maddie and never-existed Maddie theorists. We all get on fine and don't tread on each others' toes. What we have in common is a desire for the truth - i.e. let's end the misinformation. I can say, it was quite strange to be posting amongst fellow Scots instead of being the token Brit amongst Americans:)

    I just wish it would be solved one way or the other because I cannot think of anything worse than not knowing where your child is.

    Interesting is the Eyes for Lies blog. I keep reading that site and thinking how unegotistical she is. It's all about the cases she looks at. She writes in plain English too.

    Currently running a poll on whether people believe John Ramsey:- Ramsey
  3. zoomama

    zoomama Active Member

    Jay, thanks for the explanation of the Leveson case. There is entirely too much fluff and fodder put into the "news" stories that are supposed to be NEWS. As far as you being the token Brit or Scot in the American forums well Lassie, I never considered what your origin was nor did it matter to me as I read your very thorough exams of the cases we were following. If you felt like an outsider then I apologize for all Americans (myself included) that made you feel that way. That should not have happened at all.

    I've been following off and on the Eyes for Lies blogs. It's interesting that she has a heading for the Burke Ramsey interview but noted that it is not available for viewing. Oh Tongue in cheek I suspect here. LOL
  4. Moab

    Moab Admin Staff Member

    WOW Jay...thanks for all the information! I think if people go into any missing person case with a preconceived notion, they are doing themselves a huge injustice. Pat's opinion is her own, and she seems pretty quick to say 'hey it's out there, but it is what I think" and truth be told none if us can do any differently. I also can't believe so much time has gone by, geez, almost 9, that is a long long time - I only pray there will be a resolution someday. Thanks again Jay...appreciate ya!
  5. Jayelles

    Jayelles Alert Viewer in Scotland

    Cheers Zoomama and Moab. It's depressing to think that she has been gone longer than she was with her family. Obviously, we're all hoping she is found and brought home to her family, but at the very least, we hope for closure.

  6. JC

    JC Superior Cool Member

    That's just crazy that she's been missing longer than she was with her family.
  7. Jayelles

    Jayelles Alert Viewer in Scotland

    I know JC. It brings with it another lot of complications if she is found :-(

    There were quite a lot of leads which never got followed up. We know this because the police files were turned over, but also because people came forward to say they'd contacted the police with information and no-one got back to them.

    Hopefully the combined efforts of Scotland Yard and the new Portuguese team will give fresh impetus to the case.

    There's some interesting stuff coming out for the fifth anniversary this year which I think could be very useful in moving the case along in terms of public awareness.
  8. Cherokee

    Cherokee FFJ Senior Member

    Zoomama, here's an article published today on the new Scotland Yard investigation of the McCann case. It gives some details and an image of what Madeleine might look like today at almost nine years old.

    Attached Files:

  9. Elle

    Elle Member

    This was just on our Canadian news, Cherokee, showing the above photo of how Madeleine may look today. It is good this case is being reopened and I hope this young girl can be returned to her parents. It seems they have given this case more serious consideration. It's about time!
  10. Cherokee

    Cherokee FFJ Senior Member

    Yes, it is, Elle! It was kind of strange to look at the "aged" photo and think that if Madeleine is still alive, she will be nine years old on May 15th. I hope and pray she is.
  11. Elle

    Elle Member

    It's amazing how they can figure out the change in a child's features like this. What a beautiful little girl she is. This is good news. For starters, it is already on the net. Let's hope someone can spot Madeleine from this newly released image, plus from all the telephone poles and elsewhere posted!
  12. rashomon

    rashomon Member

    Crime scene picture

    I just saw the "Madeleine" thread here in the 'Missing Persons' section, and thought I would drop by.

    In the past few years, I have read four books on the McCann case, but due to lack of time, have not managed to systematically go through the released case files.
    But I do keep looking for latest news and visit the "McCann Files" site at irregular intervals.

    Last edited: May 11, 2012
  13. rashomon

    rashomon Member

    Kate (in her book "Madeleine", p. 71) about her entering of the apartment:
    [bolding mine]
    After stating that she discovered Madeleine missing from her bed and could not find her anywhere in the apartment, Kate continues:
    What struck me as odd when trying to visualize the above scenario: Why would Kate "pull a door to" of a room that she wanted to enter?
    Imo this does not make sense.
    Last edited: May 11, 2012
  14. Elle

    Elle Member

    It doesn't make any sense to me either, rashomon.

    I don't do research any more, now I'm into my early 80's. However,I do come back here regularly to respond to those members who are still posting on the JonBenét case, and jog my memory. This was the case I was involved with more than any other.

    I believe the Websleuths site is very active. Maybe you should post this infomation there.
  15. rashomon

    rashomon Member

    Thanks for the info, Elle.
    I didn't know that the WSS Madeleine forum, which had been offline for quite some time, has been reopened.
    Today is Madeleine's ninth birthday. :rose:
    Last edited: May 12, 2012
  16. Elle

    Elle Member

    It's all very sad, rashomon. What a waste of a young life. I sincerely hope the death of this little girl has made holiday makers everywhere be more careful not to leave their children unattended on holiday, as well as in their own homes. This is a dangerous world we live in, when it comes to small children.

    Truthfully rashomon, I don't go to Websleuths. I just knew it was very active and took it for granted the Madeleine case would be there too! I'm sure you will be of great value to this case over there.
  17. Cherokee

    Cherokee FFJ Senior Member

    Maybe she meant she pulled the "door to" after she opened it? In other words, she didn't close the door all the way as in shut completely - the draft did that. The part about opening the door was left out because her main thought was on how the door reacted to the draught in the room. Anyway, that's how I read it.
  18. rashomon

    rashomon Member

    Acording to the passage in the book, the door to the children's bedroom was already open quite wide when Kate saw it (which was before she entered this room).

    Here is a link to the floor plan of apartment 5A (a bit further down the page):

    Kate states that she entered the apartment through the (unlocked) patio doors.
    Not yet having entered the children's room, she then noticed that the door to this room was "open quite wide".
    She then says that she "walked over and gently began to pull it to".
    She has not yet entered the room.
    Imo it makes no sense to "pull the door to" of a room which one is going to enter.
  19. Cherokee

    Cherokee FFJ Senior Member

    Whether it is in the text or not, it is implied from the context of the sentence and the rest of the writing. I think it is inferred that Kate had entered the room. Whoever wrote that sentence either left out the part about her entering the room, or didn't think it as necessary.

    The act of "walking over" may have been meant to include entering the room - walking over to the door and entering the room - since the door was already wide open. Kate didn't have to open the door to enter the room, thus the physical description of walking over and entering the room was one action.

    To satisfy details, the writer could have included, "I stepped over the threshold of the door," but they didn't because it was implied.

    I have edited many papers and a few books, and it is amazing what people will leave out in their writing, thinking the reading audience knows what they mean. This type of writing omission is common and one reason I have always cautioned writers to read their works from the point of view of an objective third person, an unknowing other, someone who doesn't already know the details and actions contained in the work.

    When we write, we know what we are thinking as we see the scene in our heads. The trick is to describe it so that others see the same scene. :)
  20. rashomon

    rashomon Member

    Still, the part of wanting to "pull the door to" sounds odd.

    From the PJ police files:
    Kate's version of events differs from Gerry's witnesss statement. In her book, she states that he entered through the (unlocked) patio doors:
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