Discussion in 'Justice for JonBenet Discussion - Public Forum' started by icedtea4me, Jan 10, 2007.
Well, I looked at it, and I'm just not sure what it means. It is a little weird to think it could be accidental, but what the heck would anyone be doing putting a pajama top like that? The only way I can see it happening by accident is if it were folded like a shirt on display and then the one sleeve was somehow pulled underneath. I haven't tried this yet, though, so I don't even know if it is likely.
I applaud your eyesight in even noticing this.
The top raises many questions:
If it was under her pillow ready to wear, why didn't she wear it?
If it was under her pillow and the rest of the bed looks messed up (pillow at bottom of bed) why is the top seemingly not disturbed too?
If it was made into a heart shape, that would echo the hearts on the hand and the article about JR.
If it was made into a heart why is undisturbed and seemingly holding it's shape?
Was this done after JBR died, ie during the staging?
The pajama top may have been placed under the pillow in that fashion but we know that for whatever reason, JonBenet didn't wear that top that night. Which leads me to ask:
Why didn't Patsy put that particular pj shirt on JBR that night?
Did JBR ever really go to bed that night? Or did she run around the house while dad and Burke did their thing and mommy dearest did hers?
When exactly was JBR's red turtleneck taken off?
On Christmas afternoon, Patsy Ramsey tried to persuade JonBenÃ©t to wear the same type of outfit she was wearing, a red top with black velvet pants. According to John Ramsey, JonBenÃ©t won, and wore a white top with a sequined star on the front with her pants. "Death of Innocence:" HB Page 7
When questioned by the police on the 26 December at her home, Patsy Ramsey told police, JonBenÃ©t wore a red top to bed. This testimony was later changed to the white top she was found dead in, the one she wore to the White's party, having been handed her previous reports, thanks to DA Alex Hunter, she changed her testimony to suit the crime.
Hypothetically, this fits with Patsy Ramsey wakening her daughter at the usual time every night (midnight), she found her lying in a soiled red top, and in a fit of rage hauled her out of bed. Nedra Paugh told Steve Thomas that JonBenÃ©t would scream blue bloody murder if she was hauled out of her bed. Isn't it possible Patsy in a rage, shaking her or throwing her around the bathroom JB could have struck her head against the bathtub or some other solid object in there?
Thanks, you guys. The truth is the truth. As for the PJ top, it is a random looking thing although we can get a shape out of it if we "cut and paste". Sort of like seeing a cartoon character's shape in the shape of a cloud.
As for the sweater changes, the balled up red one suggests that the child took it off and dumped it. Since it was left in a ball it would suggest to me that it was discarded perhaps in an autonomous move to reestablish the "what I want" status of JonBenet. You know, "Mom made me put this on but I dumped it and put on what I want".
That's what it suggests to me.
The strange thing is that her body had the aroma of cleaning solution on it, there was a clean (aesthetically acceptable-not soaked with blood) white sweater on her. This is a loving act by someone that couldn't stand to see the child bloodied and messy.
Who does that suggest to you guys? :bee:
Thank you dear elle! I knew there was a reason JonBenet wasn't in the pj top.
If someone's mentioned this, sorry to repeat, I'm skimming, as I've been trying to get to this thread and Little's for a week, but the Fam's keeping me busy.
I don't think anyone has ever said if the pink pj bottoms were found by LE. Patsy said she kept the pjs under JB's pillow. There's the top. But where are the bottoms? (If y'all have alread discussed this, just ignore me. I'll get to careful reading soon...I just know it!)
We also still have big question mark over whether LE ever found the black velvet pants JB wore to the White's that night. The pants with dirty undies lying on JB's floor were not identifed as those, when Haney asked Patsy about them while showing her the picture, if I'm remembering correctly. I don't think we know if they identified them, do we?
The package of size 12-14 Bloomies disappeared for 5 years into the RST, brought out only by Lin Wood when he intimidated Boulder LE into giving the case up to his puppet Lacy. The story on where they'd been all those years is vague...as usual for the RST when it comes to OBSTRUCTING JUSTICE in the murder of JonBenet. You'd think someone in Boulder LE might notice that THAT WITHHOLDING EVIDENCE IN A FEDERAL CRIME IS ILLEGAL. Not to worry, though. If they're going to let you get away with child murder, what's a little obstruction?
I guess what I'm wondering is: JUST HOW MUCH OF JB'S CLOTHES DISAPPEARED THAT NIGHT? Along with that roll of duct tape and cord...?
Would there have been much blood? The head wound didn't bleed, did it? I would think any changing of clothing would have been to get rid of DNA from the killer, but maybe they weren't thinkiing in that direction and only wanted to get rid of other evidence. I can't think of anything on her autopsy report that would have provided a lot of blood evidence, though.
The fact it was on the counter top, in her bathroom suggests to me that Patsy could have rinsed it out, and who knows what took place if this had been whipped off her in anger? There was a washer and dryer right outside the children's bedrooms, for easy access for washing the sheets etc.,
So why would Patsy Ramsey leave JonBenÃ©t's pants and dirty underwear on the floor for the cops to find?
According to her testimony, she couldn't find a pair of pajama bottoms, and fished out the longjohns and put those on her. but doesn't give enough information to the cops when it came to the enlarged underwear. She must have had to sidestep the dirty clothes on the floor. Patsy Ramsey lied all through her testimony, and got away with it (?).
It suggests to me that JBR was killed by someone who loved her and that someone didn't want her to be found 'soiled.' JonBenet was washed down and redressed by someone for another reason...that person wanted to cover their azz. He/she washed JonBenet down and redressed her to rid the body of DNA. (From what I understand, only her vaginal injuries would have caused bleeding so she wouldn't have been covered in blood. Remember her skull fracture wasn't noticeable until her head was examined during the autopsy.
From seeing photos of the condition that house was in, I don't think Patsy had any trouble sidestepping messes on the floor, or anywhere else.
I'm sure many articles of clothing were removed in Aunt Pam's Police-Protected and DA-Sponsered Evidence Removal Festival. "Get me a Happy Meal and a Big Diet Coke!"
There's no way a pajama top, or any top for that matter, is going to wind up looking like that after it's been shoved under a pillow.
That's what I thought...Either the bed wasn't slept in or it was put there afterwards. I opt for the bed wasn't slept in...the PJ top was ready for her to put on, but it never became an option as she never made it to bed.
I think PR saying she couldn't find the matching bottoms was an excuse as to why she didn't put on that PJ top, waiting right under the pillow...as if the top and bottoms would have to match :cow:
Yes, heymom I hear you, and you're right. Steve Thomas remarked on this too. The basement of that house was one big mess, but this was where Patsy did all her Christmas wrapping (?). Think of the trips up and down those stairs, for starters (?). Was it any wonder she was harrassed and exhausted at Christmas time?
Yeah, I kind of doubt JonBenet ever went to bed, too. If she did, she must not have slept for long, because it was 10 p.m. or later when they got home, then she was killed sometime in the very late hours of 12/25 or early hours of 12/26, and in between that time, she was up eating pineapple. I just have a feeling that neither of the kids went to bed, and perhaps Burke didn't directly witness what happened to JonBenet, but he sure could have heard a ruckus and been told to just go to bed anyway.
I believe that someone snapped that night, for whatever reason, and that the head injury was a result of that snapping. The staging took place after the parents realized that JonBenet was almost dead and would never wake up. I believe that lawyers were called long before the 911 call was made. I believe instructions were followed, if not for the actual staging itself, then for the 911 call and the pollution of the crime scene by friends. I believe that JonBenet had been molested prior to 12/26, and that that molestation was the main reason for the staging and consequent cover-up. I do not believe that Burke was directly involved, but that he may have heard something or seen something that night, and been told never to say anything about it, or been told that he really didn't see what he thought he did. One of the reasons I believe that John Ramsey was involved in JonBenet's death is that he tried to escape Boulder only 20 minutes after he found his daughter's corpse and brought it upstairs into the foyer. Another reason I believe these things is based on the autopsy report and the fact that high-powered lawyers were immediately hired. As one of the forum members states on her signature, only 6 days after their daughter was killed, her parents were stating on national television that they weren't angry about it and wanted to move on with their lives. Of course these are circumstantial points, and not hard evidence, but after 10 years and no indictments, the evidence that would convict one or both of the Ramseys will never emerge.
I believe, based on reading here and at evidence-related sites, that the Ramseys had Pam Paugh go into the house and remove crime scene evidence that would implicate their involvement, under the guise of fetching funeral wear. I am about 98% certain this was sanctioned by Alex Hunter, the Boulder DA at the time. The items have never been accounted for nor returned to the police for analysis and cataloguing.
I believe that John and Patsy Ramsey have lied about what happened that night from the beginning, and have never stopped lying. They both knew at the time and conspired to hide the truth, and now John carries on with the lies unsupported by Patsy. I knew they were lying about what happened from the first moment I saw their performance on CNN 10 years ago. It was obvious that something else was behind their performance, and it wasn't concern about all those other children that might be murdered by some mysterious and terroristic intruder. Their concern was in keeping their sorry butts out of prison, and had nothing to do with justice for JonBenet.
and, Oh, BTW, I have no idea why I just went into all that...talking to myself I suppose...
Good post heymom with food for thought.
John and Patsy claim they didn't know JonBenet had been sexually molested for months...not angry with the killer or curious how their daughter died.
Mention the damage done to JonBenet's vagina and John gets all touchy and ed off at the asker!
Neither patsy nor Jon Benet went to bed that night !!
The fact that the parents bed wasnt too messed up either suggest John wasnt in bed all that long either !!.. well he did have to some work to do didnt he !!
So did Patsy - when any mom knows that the right reaction would be to freak out, vow to kill the person who did it as soon as possible, cry, pray, scream, etc. Not to sit there and question the information and how it was brought out! Here's what I would do, or something like this - thinking of going through the same situation that Patsy did.
Questioner: Did you know that your daughter had been vaginally molested at some point before the murder?
Me: Are you sure that's true? Can I see the report? (This assumes I had never seen the report before, which we know was not true with Patsy or John) Oh my God. How is this possible? It must be true. So who would that mean? (Going through possibilities in own mind...) Oh my God. Please don't let this be true, please God, please. I would be crying and pleading with God for it not to be true, but if it really were true, I would hope that the family member who was responsible would already be in police custody, because if not, he would be shortly in custody for a long, long time.
John knew what had happened, and it wasn't because he had found out someone else had abused JonBenet.
Oh, and my earlier post didn't include the fact that someone had to pull that cording tight on JonBenet's neck. I don't believe that Patsy did that. I do believe that John could have done it. I think he is a monster, and no one knows except perhaps Burke, what really happened to JonBenet.
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