Patsy and the Red Jumpsuit

Discussion in 'Justice for JonBenet Discussion - Public Forum' started by Watching You, Feb 5, 2004.

  1. Watching You

    Watching You Superior Bee Admin

    I received Little's book, "Journey Beyond Reason" in the mail yesterday, and by last night I had read half of it. I am going to finish reading it before I get into discussing the contents of it, but I'll say right now it's a very worthwhile read.

    Right now, I want to bring up something that has bugged me since I first heard it. While re-reading the National Enquirer Interviews book, the subject of the red jumpsuit jumped out at me again. I read that section over and over, and it sounded to me as if Patsy was making the statement that the jumpsuit had been in need of cleaning for at least a few days and she just decided to rinse it out on her way down the stairs on the morning of December 26, 1996. I don't think she actually said how long the jumpsuit had been lying there on the ironing board, but I got the impression it had been there a while.

    Then, last night as I was reading "Journey Beyond Reason," the jumpsuit issue came up again, and I realized what had been bothering me about it.

    Why, if the Ramseys were getting ready to leave for the airport that morning in such a short time, would Patsy take the time to rinse out a red jumpsuit that had apparently been lying there, dirty, for at least a few days? What did she do after she rinsed that jumpsuit out? She doesn't appear to have dried it - did she hang it up to dry? Or did she leave it wadded up on the sink, still wet, and proceed to go downstairs?

    It's such a little thing that on first notice, it doesn't seem like such a big deal. But, I think it might be a big deal, because it seems there was no good reason for her to have chosen a time when she was busy getting things together to go to the lake to take the time to wash out a jumpsuit. Why didn't she just put it in with the rest of the dirty clothes that were waiting to be laundered? At first I thought it might be dry clean only and she didn't want to put it in with the rest of the laundry, but if she rinsed it out, it had to be washable. Why didn't she just leave it where it was? It would still have been there when they returned from their trips when she would have had more time.

    Instead, on a very busy morning, with a time schedule to meet, she chooses to wash that jumpsuit. Why?

    I have learned not to ignore these little things the Ramseys throw in. If Patsy chose to mention that she "rinsed out" that jumpsuit, I have to do a double and triple take on the jumpsuit, because there's a reason Patsy mentioned it. What did it have to do with the events of the night of Jan 25 and into the early hours of Jan 26? What was on that jumpsuit that had to be removed?

    Would you, in the same circumstances, stop to wash out a jumpsuit if your daughter didn't need it for the trip? Perhaps there were stains on it, but it seems the jumpsuit had been there for a few days already - what's the urgency to get them off that morning? Did something happen involving that jumpsuit that necessitated Patsy's washing it earlier than she stated? Did she have to say she stopped to rinse it out on her way to the kitchen to make coffee to cover her earlier tracks?

    Something's not right here.
  2. Twitch

    Twitch Active Member

    Hey Wy.

    Yes. We have learned that if they bring it up, it is worth investigating.

    Is this the same garment that is referred to as the turtleneck? That was soaking in the sink?
  3. Watching You

    Watching You Superior Bee Admin

    That's what

    I can't figure out, Twitch. They called it a turtleneck, Patsy called it a red jumpsuit. Either way, what reason would there be for Patsy to wash it out at that particular time and then leave it there balled up - still wet?

    It could have been one of those one-piece turtleneck shirt-things - not with the long pants but with the panties that fasten at the crotch area, know what I mean? Like the Onesies that infants wear.

    What was on that jumpsuit that Patsy had to get washed out?
  4. Twitch

    Twitch Active Member

    The onesie concept is interesting.

    I hadn't thought of that before. Now, is this also the shirt she wanted JBR to wear to the White's and JBR refused? Or did she actually wear it. I'm sorry but I don't have access to my books now.
  5. Watching You

    Watching You Superior Bee Admin


    it's purely speculation on my part, but I'm guessing the red turtleneck is the one JB wanted to wear that day, and I'm guessing the turtleneck and the red jumpsuit are one and the same.

    I just can't help but think there's more to the red jumpsuit/turtleneck story.
  6. purr

    purr Active Member

    good catch WY

    if she did rinse out that red jumpsuit/turtle neck....

    she probably did it hurriedly........

    so if there were evidence on it.....DNA.....from
    blood or other markers........

    that evidence could still be there!!!

    i know when criminals clean for blood
    left on beds, carpets, etc.

    the CSI can bring in those special
    blue lights.....that show blood
    traces left but not seen by the eye.

    i wonder if all those evidence items....
    are secure and stored
    for further investigating??

    does anyone know???

    again, good catch,

    is there anything about that night...or
    the next day that WASNT Hinky???

    i dont think so,
  7. Elle

    Elle Member

    The red turtleneck sweater

    WY In Steve Thomas "JonBenét" page 40 PB....Steve writes:

    On the bathroom counter lay a balled-up child's red turtleneck sweater. Although Patsy said JonBenét had gone to bed wearing a red turtleneck , the body was discovered in the same white pullover she had worn the evening before. Who had changed her clothes?

    Patsy Ramsey changed her story later and said that she had put on a white top.

    This is just one of the famous Ramsey inconsistencies.

    Why would she even bother rinsing out this red top. She already talks about putting some clothes in a bag to take to Charlevoix. She could have thrown the red top in and washed it when she got there. She's a first class liar!
  8. Twitch

    Twitch Active Member

    I have heard speculation

    That she was put to bed wearing it; wet it when she wet the bed. Patsy threw it in the sink of water; left it there and went to get pull ups. Perhaps the ensuing events prevented her getting back to it.
  9. Watching You

    Watching You Superior Bee Admin


    that story was floating around about Patsy putting her to bed in that red sweater. She calls it a jumpsuit. I think what she calls a jumpsuit is the red sweater ST was talking about. And, the story did go that Patsy first said she put her to bed in a red sweater then later changed it to the white top.

    Oh Lordie, what a tangled web we weave...

    A good guess would be there was something on that sweater that Patsy didn't want anyone to know about. That's why she washed it out, then fabricated her story around it. That's why she even mentioned the red jumpsuit - she had to have a story ready to tell about it. Was there urine on that red garment? Is that why Patsy had to "rinse" it out and then make a cover story?
  10. Elle

    Elle Member

    Yes, this red top has been called: red sweater; red jumpsuit; red turtleneck and it's all one and the same. Steve Thomas talks about JonBenét's white top as a white pullover, and it's the same one, JonBenét was found dead in. The white top with a sequined star.

    It was the same with Patsy Ramseys outfit. She had a red top underneath a red and black plaid jacket and all different names have been thrown around for those too.
  11. Elle

    Elle Member

    I agree with you, WY. I think there's more to it.

    Patsy wanted JonBenét to wear the same outfit as her which was a red top and black velvet jeans, but JR claims JonBenét wore something different - the white top with the sequined star was what she wore to the party. Wish we could see the photos from that party.

    I wondered if Patsy, out of spite, made JonBenét wear the red top to bed because she wouldn't put it on for the party, and maybe a hassle started right there between them and it got out of hand (?) Burke did state to the police that JonBenét had walked through the front door in front of him and up the stairs.

    Edited to add that if Patsy did put on this red top and then checked on her at midnight. She told a friend that she had to waken JB up at midnight every night because of her bedwetting. It's possible she may have found JonBenét had soiled it, and maybe she lost it, and whipped it off her and it ended in tragedy (?). Then Patsy put the white top on her after she was dead.(?)
  12. Elle

    Elle Member


    NE Police 47

    Detective Tom Trujillo asks Patsy what colour of top JonBenét wore to bed that night.

    Patsy talks about getting ready for the White's party first, and her wanting JB to wear her red sweater with her black velvet pants because Patsy herself was wearing the same type of outfit. She says JB didn't want to wear that outfit. but wanted to wear an outfit fron the gap which was the white top with the white sequined star.

    She tells Det. Trujillo that she just left this top on her.
  13. Bobby1st

    Bobby1st Member

    My memory isn't the best but weren't the sheets in the dryer a subject of conversation for a while because the housekeeper had said they had been changed? Maybe PR washed the sheets but forgot the red top.
    Forgive me if I am remembering wrong. I never archived anything.
  14. purr

    purr Active Member

    what about this possibility?

    maybe patsy was pulling that red turtleneck top thingee
    off of jonbenet.....and patsy was in a rage while
    she did it because of the disagreement over outfits.

    and patsy was pulling and pulling and couldnt get it off.....
    and pulled so hard that she pulled jonbenet's head
    into the bathroom counter.....or they slipped
    and jonbenet hit her head on the bathtub or toilet.

    (i dont know if it has been proven....... that
    this injury could NOT come from jonbenet hitting
    her head on something.)

    i know when dressing kids that i have babysat.....
    or my nieces and nephews.....that it is hard
    for a child to take off a turtleneck all by themselves
    if it has a very tight turtleneck. i had had
    to jerk and jerk the turtleneck off....and sometimes
    this does "throw" the kid around.

    do you understand the scenario....what
    i am describing?

    let me know,

    again, was this red turtleneck checked for blood...
    jonbenet's DNA???
  15. Deja Nu

    Deja Nu Banned

    This is the same kind of hinky inconsistent little fact as Patsy emphasizing that John was crouching in the hallway under the light reading the ransom note IN HIS UNDERWEAR. Yet 3 minutes later, when Officer French arrived, John met him at the door fully dressed. John's own testimony supports this and further adds that in just 3 minutes, he ran upstairs, dressed, roamed the house checking doors and windows, came back down the front stairs, then opened the door to Officer French. Impossible! Has anyone ever established what John was wearing when Officer French arrived? Perhaps he was wearing the same clothes from the night before as well and Patsy was trying to obscure that too.

    I'm sure that little red jumpsuit/turtleneck/sweater was taken into evidence. It can be confirmed by reviewing the inventory sheets. It would be interesting to know if any DNA testing was performed on it.
  16. Little

    Little Member

    Oh - I love this discussion!
    While watching the tape of Patsy's interview on the CTV web site the mention of the red top is one of the times that Patsy broke down. At the time I wondered if it was because this was the top she and JonBenet had argued about on Christmas day and that was what triggered the tears.

    John Ramsey recounts the story of this "disagreement" and it's amazing how he remembers exactly what JonBenet did end up wearing - the white top - the little boots etc.

    The red top has been a mystery to me too. I agree, why stop to wash it out, or had it been soaking and she needed to wring it out? It's one of the items I felt would have contributed to it taking more time than Patsy had allotted when telling the police what she had done that morning. She accomplished a lot in the short amount of time between when she says she got up and that 911 call.

  17. Elle

    Elle Member

    We've thrashed this one through umpteen times Little, not on this forum, of course, but we sure have gone over it many times.

    Yes, this would be very interesting to find out Dejanu.
  18. Moab

    Moab Admin Staff Member

    Ok since the rest of you are thinking it is one-in-the-same, for discussion purposes, I'll take the other side and say I think they were two different items. I think the red turtleneck was balled up on the counter in JBR's bathroom and whatever this jumpsuit thing is would have been outside of JBR's room where the washer/dryer was, and the sink.

    Although I don't buy the story she was washing a few things out (without the time to dry them) but she did say she put some things she "rinsed" into (you guessed it) another garbage sack (otherwise known as soft-sided luggage). And later Arndt, I think, saw a sack of clothes sitting somewhere and put them in a closet. Not sure if it is the same sack or not.
  19. "J_R"

    "J_R" Shutter Bug Bee

    What isn't logical is to do laundry (especially hand wash) on an already tight (at least by my standards) schedule.

    Bobby1st, since one doesn't generally wash a red item with other other items because red tends to "bleed" and turn those other items pink, this may indicate the red items were forgotten or perhaps there wasn't time to wash and dry two loads?
  20. Deja Nu

    Deja Nu Banned

    Whether the red items were one in the same or not, it is utterly stupid to stop to wash something out by hand on a morning like she described, unless of course there was evidence on it she had to get rid of. And it's especially stupid when you stop to consider that she had a full time housekeeper who would probably be coming back to the house to clean up before the Rs returned from Michigan. If it was a no-biggie, why not just leave it for LHP with a note?

    It has been said that PR was a slob of a housekeeper, so this kind of attention to detail is very out of sync with her nature as well.....
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