Patsy Ramsey

I like the part where Mel runs out of the house, into the corn field and finds the circle. Just like when John went missing for a half hour.

 

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Thanks too from me Cranberry, and also Heymom for finding the exact post. What an informative thread, with all the insider info and pictures provided by Judith Phillips/Cookie!

The title of that family picture is actually 'Salute to American Justice'. See post #7 on this thread:

http://www.forumsforjustice.org/forums/showthread.php?t=6429&page=1&pp=12

Quite ironic isn't it, with the woman on the cover who later successfully escaped American justice. Life writes the strangest stories ...

 

I've never seen the film, but I'm going to order it right away. Incredible, all those similarites. Can't wait to watch it!!

 

Well, Rashomon, maybe a little bit it did. Patsy went to Atlanta after her Miss West Virginia gig was over and became the career gal for a few years. This was Atlanta in the 70s - Underground Atlanta, Harrison's on Peachtree, other bars in midtown and Buckhead. John was married and having an affair, and then separated during that time. I don't know if they hooked up while he was still married or not. But my point is that they were both sowing a few wild oats - no matter how righteous they got later, they did not MEET in church, they met on the singles party circuit.

After they got married, the Patster didn't start having her kids for five years or so (I have wondered if she was taking fertility drugs, and hence the ovarian cancer). She worked for Hayes Computers and ran around in a fur coat and diamonds.

I think she went to Atlanta because of Scarlett O'Hara. She had to have read something besides the Prime of Miss Jean Brodie, after all. She called herself and her family Southern, but they were from Parkersburg, West Va, on the Ohio River. (and help me Jesus, John is a Michiganer). But Scarlett must have been attractive to Patsy - bull-headed career gal who always had to be the center of attention.

 

Great post KK. I remember seeing this movie a long time ago, and it was talked about by John Andrew to Steve Thomas. Here's his account.

I must look for this DVD. I note John Andrew is the one who states
these kidnappers were amateurs and had seen the movie "Ransom."

 

"In one comment, he described his stepmother as "flashy" and

guessed that the killer might be someone close (inside) her."

There, that's better.

 

Her other self - right?

 

It solves the conundrum; all things point to Patsy but so many just can't believe a mother could do such a thing.

 

That reminds me of another infamous perp, Pat Taylor whose chilling portrait Ann Rule presented in her book "Everyting she ever wanted". Pat had fantasized herself very much into the role of Scarlett O' Hara, enjoying playing the Southern Belle, and even came dressed as Scarlett at her own wedding.
The character of Scarlett O' Hara btw is a fascinating psychological study of a woman who was a totally remorseles sociopath.

Could Patsy have been a remorseless sociopath too? A woman who jabs a paintbrush into her child's vagina, even if it is done 'only' for staging purposes on a lifelss body, certainly shows a degree of callousness which is disturbing. This callousness may well have been the result of her being unable to feel something like empathy, and a lack of empathy is often a characteristic trait in sociopathic personalities.
Feeling empathy is not something we are born with, it is something we have to 'learn' during the socialization process.
Something seems to have gone awfully wrong in Patsy's birth family, for her to end up like that.

 

I spent a couple of hours looking for a copy of the screenplay of Ransom, but it's not online, as far as I can find. I wanted to compare the "ransom call" to the Ramsey ransom note. Someone may have trascribed this already at some point, but I haven't found it. I'll keep looking. I may go rent the movie, as well, and do it myself.

One other thing that I forget to say: in the beginning of the movie, when the kid is kidnapped, they put silver DUCT TAPE across his eyes, so he can't see his kidnappers. They may use it on his mouth, but I had to turn it at that point as my grandson came in and I didn't want him to see this. The last thing I saw was the kidnappers were giving the child some kind of liquid sedative, so they had his mouth untaped at that point, anyway.

Well, if any of you see or get the movie, I look forward to your observations. What just really struck me was the similarities between the Ramsey family and this movie family, and I kept thinking, Patsy might have seriously related to the mother in the movie--played by the gorgeous Rene Russo. Then the ransom call came in, and it was so similar to the Ramsey ransom note, my eyes popped open and I thought, this is clearly the blueprint for the Ramsey ransom note. Maybe I'm wrong, though, so thought I'd like to see it written out to compare and hear what others think.

 

OK, I got the set-up for the movie, which as JAR said, is EXACTLY like his family:

A rich up and comer businessman has a small airline company that's becoming very successful: Endeavor Airlines. The opening of the movie is a party at their lovely home WHICH IS BEING REMODELED EXTENSIVELY. One early scene after the party is the wife and husband in an unfinished area of the home talking about CONTRACTORS, how cold it is in there, etc.

During the party, while exposition is given in a promotional video, shown to the guests, of the airline beginnings with the man/owner/father/husband's ever so witty history, we also learn that there is a man in jail who is claiming the airline CEO paid the criminal off to fix a machinists' strike somehow. That news comes out when a "Daily News" reporter crashes the party and asks about it. He's promptly led out the door by security.

Anyhow, during all this are cut scenes of the kidnappers setting up the kidnapping, outfitting the room where the child will be held, putting together INTRICATE MONITORING DEVICES--well, you know what I mean--to use during the kidnapping correspondences which will take place over the phone. That's when we see two sets of handcuffs dangling from the head and foot of the bed to use on the child.

So far, lots of similarities. I think it's very interesting that JAR knew that. I also think it's very interesting that this movie played in Boulder shortly before the murder.

I'm just going to jump ahead to the ransom call now, as best as I can transcribe it. This scene begins with a phone call which is a robotic type of voice saying "You have email." The father goes to his computer and they open the email to a video of the child lying handcuffed to a bed with silver duct tape over his eyes. In a mechanically distorted voice we hear:

And that's it. (I couldn't catch the one syllable word before "hard-shelled suitcases" but figure it's a non-existent brand, maybe.) Pretty darn amazing in comparison, isn't it?

How would someone remember that so closely with only one viewing? I have to ask that question. Like I said, Patsy has the history to memorize and remember dialogue, award-winning ability. But since JAR was the one who pointed this out to LE, one has to wonder, doesn't one? Did anyone ever ask the Ramseys or their inner circle of they saw that movie sometime before the murder? Anyone remember them GOING to a movie? Maybe they saw it in New York on a trip? Those are questions I hope someone in LE asked. Not that any of the Ramsey friends or the Ramseys would tell LE. But JAR knew about it.

Another thing in the movie: after calling the FBI in, the father is telling the FBI that they believe a business problem--the aforementioned machinist union indictments--might be behind the kidnapping. So there you have the "bussiness" link idea.

Gotta' run, but maybe y'all have some thoughts...?

 

The hard-sided aluminum cases have been known as "Halliburton briefcases." I don't know if that is what they are referring to. In the 1990's they were very popular with executives, especially in the oil business, but others used them as well.

Good research, KK! That movie certainly influenced the staging, and the language comes through in the Ransom Novel, too. But Patsy said she always fell asleep during movies, didn't she? So it simply COULDN'T have been her writing in the ransom note, now, could it???

 

BINGO!

TRANSLATION; But Patsy said she always DISSOCIATED during movies, didn't she?


Sandy woke up during them, or Rose who was addicted to the cinema paid attention.

 

KK...I might be imagining this part, but in the Ransom movie isn't there a discussion about the amount of money that the kidnappers ask for? Doesn't the wife question why the amount is so small when they could have asked for so much more? And doesn't Mel or the FBI guy say something like...they know this amount is one that you can quickly get hold of...any bigger and it would take more time?

Doesn't PR also question why the 'kidnappers' only ask for a relatively small amount?

Also is there anywhere in the film where the wife 'peeps' through her hands whilst LE are there?

 

I'll have to keep watching the movie. I only got so far and had to stop, but I'll look for the answers to your questions.

But one point I want to reiterate: This rich, successful couple in the movie were really gorgeous to look at, so charming...well, Mel Gibson and Rene Russo at their best. The mom was running the school/student science competition, complete with microphone and lots of suck-ups around her on a platform, for the park scene where the son is upset because he can't enter since his mom is a judge. It all just reminded me so much of Patsy, now that I know so much about her. I could simply "see" Patsy watching the opening, admiring the couple, relating to them.

Paradox, in this case, I think Patsy would have ASSOCIATED with the main characters. But of course she'd SAY she fell asleep, because then she couldn't possibly have remembered all the plot and dialogue, could she?

Another thing I also saw that is eerily similar: a tape is put into a vcr by the kidnappers at one point when setting up the kidnap house, and the lettering on the side of the tape you can see is four letters, something like "XTTX"--not that exactly, but I'll have to look at it again when I can wrest the remote control from hubby. Which is comparable to robbing Fort Knox, but I'm making a plan now.... irate:

 

Hands off the con KK. It's a man's world.

 

Great research and info Koldcase. Interesting.

I remember reading at acandyrose about JR being questioned about whether he had watched the movie RANSOM or not. He stated that he had seen the movie on an airplane flight but that he had the sound turned off.

HOW CONVENIENT...ANOTHER RAMSEY LIE!

This was mentioned during an interrogation of John Ramsey. I can not remember who interrogated him but probably could find it.

 

I'll create a diversion KK and you grab it! :winkaway:

 

Can I give you a suggestion for the diversion ?

 

KK, I took your transcribed ransom call from the movie and inserted the Ramsey ransom note for comparison.