Patsy Ramsey

Discussion in 'Justice for JonBenet Discussion - Public Forum' started by rashomon, Feb 3, 2007.

  1. rashomon

    rashomon Member

    I think it has less to do with the number of brain cells than with the person being familiar with the topic or not.
    Many women who have been the victim of sexual abuse in their childhood have this problem too. If you believe Patsy had SAD, what do you think was the reason?

    Another question: do you believe Patsy suffered from multiple personality disorder and one of her 'alter egos' killed Jon Benet?
  2. Paradox

    Paradox Banned for Stupidity by RiverRat

    1. Nedra's narcissistic inability to validate the infant Patsy and her boundary crossing use of Patsy as an object.

    2. Yes, that is what my signature means.
  3. rashomon

    rashomon Member

    1. Do you believe that Nedra crossed boundaries so much that she was also sexually abusing her daughter Patsy?

    2. In terms of 'The Prime of Miss Jean Brodie':
    Was Muriel Spark's book - or the film based on the book - among Patsy's favorites? Where did she speak about it (I haven't read ' Death of Innocence' yet)?
  4. Paradox

    Paradox Banned for Stupidity by RiverRat

    First of all, I rely on repeating patterns. It's a truism if not an outright fact that people act out as adults what was done to them as a child. The inappropriate pageant costuming and sexual expressions and gestures were coached into JonBenet by Patsy, most likely. Patsy herself wore over the top costuming and clothes throughout her life. Some of those costumes were provocative as were her gestures and posture as shown in photos. Yet she dated late, dated older boys, married an older man, wanted to ask her mother when he proposed and there are stories about frigidity in the marriage.

    The pattern here is of someone who is sexual in image only but who lacks a sex drive. It is possible that Patsy did not encounter her own sexual instincts as an adolescent and thus did not learn how to manage them. As she brought JonBenet up in the pageants she inadvertantly stimulated her latent sex instincts when she began to sexualize the image of JonBenet. These behaviors were retarded, undeveloped and childlike for an adult. Our first sexual experience is usually with ourselves, with our hands. I think this repressed activity was transfered to JonBenet by Patsy unconsciously and acted out impulsively.

    This whole thing could have been a carbon copy of what Nedra did to Patsy, but more likely the trauma Patsy suffered from Nedra was the narcissistic disregard for the identity of her children in favor of her own sense of self. This had to have physical consequences, some of which were directed at the genitals. But it may have been much more psychological in nature.

    Patsy used TPOMJB in highschool, in pageants and did a re-write for her last pageant. It was obviously important to her. It is mentioned in DOI, police interviews, and several of the books written about the case. I don't recall any interview comments where Patsy declares it to be of such import. I intuit that.

    The fact that pineapple with cream in a bowl eaten with spoons at a tea party is in the book and pineapple with milk in a bowl with a spoon next to a glass with a tea bag in it was in the house is more than a coincidence. It is part of a pattern.

    The fact that possession was misspelled in the rn and the question of that word's spelling comes up in the book is also part of that pattern.

    A long list of synchronicities can be made between the Ramsey case and the works of Muriel Spark. Only one person on the list of subjects is part of that pattern; Patsy. The fact that there is so much form and pattern in the crime makes the supposed randomness of the rn doubtful and should bring a great deal of doubt to the idea that the crime began accidentally.
  5. rashomon

    rashomon Member

    Where is the source re the pineapple in the bowl being mixed with milk?
    I always thought it was fresh pineapple chunks/slices with nothing else added.
  6. Paradox

    Paradox Banned for Stupidity by RiverRat

    found a gaping hole in John's testimony about the Large spoon, and his assertion that his kids wouldn't use such a big spoon. He also claimed, over and over again that the bowl was LARGE. It wasn't ... and here's how I know.

    Look at this pic:
  7. heymom

    heymom Member

    Page wasn't working - could you check the link? Thanks.
  8. Paradox

    Paradox Banned for Stupidity by RiverRat

    It's the first post in yumyum's thread, aha John lied about the pineapple.
  9. heymom

    heymom Member

    Yes, but could you post the link again? It didn't work. I have no idea what thread you are quoting, Paradox.
  10. Paradox

    Paradox Banned for Stupidity by RiverRat

    Page 24, Ah ha! John lied about pineapple by YumYum.

    bumped it.
  11. koldkase

    koldkase FFJ Senior Member

  12. Paradox

    Paradox Banned for Stupidity by RiverRat

    Thanks KK. I bumped the thread, good comments.
  13. heymom

    heymom Member

    Yeah, thanks! I'm an idiot. Didn't think to search for that thread title. Great thread! The bowl thing is quite amazing. Honestly, it looks like there might be bananas in that bowl too, but no one ever mentioned them, so it must not be.

    Wouldn't pineapple tend to cause cream to curdle? Just the thought makes me want to gag, and I love pineapple, as well as cream, just never thought to put the two together.
  14. Paradox

    Paradox Banned for Stupidity by RiverRat

    Well, Sandy Stranger did.
  15. rashomon

    rashomon Member

    But what was there in the bowl on the Ramsey kitchen table besides pineapple? The picture is not very clear.
    While I can imagine pineapple mixed with cream in an ice-cream sundae or some kind of dessert, but pineapple with MILK? Gag!
  16. heymom

    heymom Member

    Stand by for photos later. I'm going to take pictures of pineapple and cream and then eat some too. :sick:
  17. rashomon

    rashomon Member

    I have the impression that Patsy was manipulated by her own pageant-obsessed mother mother every bit as much as she later manipulated her daughter JonBenet. Patsy passed on what had been done to her, without even reflecting if what had been done to her was the right thing.
    Even when Patsy was an adult, her mother still seems to have had a lot to say. In his book, Dr. Lee wrote it was actually Nedra who suggested the sexy Las Vegas showgirl suit for JonBenet, but as it produced "a terrible reaction" afterward, they quit putting her in such outfits.
  18. Little

    Little Member

    I feel that same way rashomon. I think Patsy parented the way she was parented. Different geographical/cultural location and birth order may have allowed JonBenet to have more of a mind of her own.

  19. rashomon

    rashomon Member

    A poster on WS made an interesting observation about Patsy's fighting spirit. Patsy Ramsey was a fighter, no question about it. She fought against cancer, she put all her energy into JonBenet's competitive pageants, etc.

    In short, Patsy shied away from no effort when she wanted achieve something. But did she ever fight for justice for JonBenet? She did not.

    Patsy had fighting spirit in abundance, and it is exactly the fact that she did NOT use it when it came to her daughter's tragic and violent death which should raise a thousand red flags.
    Like another poster said it so well, if JonBenet had in fact been killed by an intruder, Patsy would have had police chief Koby in a choke hold shortly after the body was found, demanding action. She would have been Beth Twitty and Elizabeth Smart's father X 20. A fighter type like Patsy would have been one of the fiercest parents ever to demand that LE do everything in their power to find the killer. Patsy would have raised hell in the BPD if she felt the investigation was going too slow. But Patsy did nothing of the sort.
    Had there really been "a killer out there", no way would Patsy have sat there five days after her daughter's murder, telling the TV audience that she was not angry at the killer and wanted to go on with her life.
  20. Moab

    Moab Admin Staff Member

    Excellent point. When we look at those cases in which the parents were innocent, we saw distraught people, and now we see advocates for justice. The list contains prominent names - John Walsh, Ed and Elizabeth Smart, Mark Lunsford, Erin Runnion, Kevin Bardsley, to name a very few. This could have been Patsy's time to shine, but alas, she couldn't become an advocate while involved in the crime! It speaks volumes.
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