Pep Talk! 2012 is a Great Year for the Truth in the JonBenet Case

Discussion in 'Justice for JonBenet Discussion - Public Forum' started by Tricia, Apr 9, 2012.

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  1. Learnin

    Learnin Member

    I agree with you on the window not being a point of entry because of the things you mentioned. People, open to the truth, know it's one heckuva stretch to try and use that window as point of entry and exit. But, unfortunately, we have those, like Smit, who are hell bent on fingering an intruder. These are all too willing to believe Lou's theory and demonstration on how to get in and out the window. These will use that old scuff mark and suitcase as proof without considering all the facts. Then, you have those, like me, who was introduced to this case by Smit's crockumentary where he demonstrated how someone would get in to the window. If one had never taken a further look into the other side, one would be fooled by Smit's presentation. Fortunately for me, I began reading everything I could with an open mind.

    If someone could come forth with information which would put that window to rest once and for all, then, IDI are left with someone had a key. This really narrows the intruder list down.
  2. koldkase

    koldkase FFJ Senior Member

    Oh. I'm going to quote myself as I just had a thought about why the Ramseys might have decided to tell LE in April JR broke the window himself.

    I once heard a former FBI profiler (not Douglas, who forgot everything he ever knew about criminal behavior once he met Team Ramsey) say when someone stages a crime scene to look like an intruder committed the crime, one element they include is an "exit" route. For example, Darlie Routier: one of her children's socks was found outside on the road.

    And this is a strong reason I can't rule John Ramsey out as part of the staging: his "I broke the window" story as told to Smit in 1998.

    It appears to me the stager meant to use the "broken window" as the intruder entrance and exit route--the suitcase was staged as the exit route. But at some point any half-brained lawyer/investigator, having been handed the crime scene evidence and reports as soon as Alex Hunter got them, would realize there was NO GLASS FROM THE BROKEN WINDOW present. The little shard White picked up was from that break, but most likely was just missed in the original clean up.

    So Team Ramsey realized LE knew no intruder broke the window. JR admitted to LE he broke it, even STATING in one LE interview he told Fleet White that morning about breaking the window himself. I can't remember if White ever confirmed that.

    If you notice, JR and Patsy both made a big production out of that broken window when talking about it to LE. When they started embellishing--especially Patsy--I pay attention.

    I personally don't think JR ever went through that window. I've tried many times to (roughly) re-enact backing out of the window well, through the window, on my knees (I use a bed as my pretend window and sill), and I can't do it. I have to put one foot on the floor, then the other--but it was four feet to the basement floor from the window sill. To pretend I can't reach the floor with my foot, I extend my leg and bend my knee...and then I have to flop down onto my belly and try to push myself with my hands--it's just no way to go through that window. Not only would that have been very painful in the window well/sill, as the floor was four feet below the window opening, but also there wasn't enough room in the window well to do this. The window well was very narrow. Smit can be seen squeezing his thin frame into it sideways. So how did JR turn around, get on his knees, and do this? Did he remove his head and shoulders first? He's not a tall man, but it doesn't seem possible to me.

    You notice that in Smit's many demonstrations, HE DIDN'T ENTER THAT WINDOW AS WAS DESCRIBED BY JR. Not once. Why not? Seems like something a careful detective would do.






  3. Learnin

    Learnin Member

    I see what you mean and I agree. Smit came in that window the only way someone, other than a child, could get in there. And that way (Smit's way) would have strewn dirt and debris all over the place. Police would have been able to tell, immediately, that someone had entered the window very recently had someone done so.

    I agree the stagers dressed up that window for the entrance/exit. I'll always believe JR took Fleet down to that room first before "discovering" the body so he could see the broken window.

    JR runs straight to the basement and goes into the room with the broken window.

    Once Fleet remarks about the window, JR heads for the room where JBR is lying.

    Soon after discovering the body and "grieving", JR is making plans to get out of Dodge.

    No. Too much for anyone to believe.
  4. Elle

    Elle Member

    I just want to know what y'all had for your breakfast this morning, or have you found some good energy pills seeing you are all on a roll today! I WANT SOME! [​IMG] Keep it up!

    I couldn't believe what length Lou Smit went to, to prove one could enter the Ramsey home. Why would a big exec like John Ramsey have to stoop so low and go through a strip tease to enter his own home, when a pane of glass could have been broken with a brick near a lock on one of his back doors (?). All lies!

  5. koldkase

    koldkase FFJ Senior Member

    Ah. Well done, Learnin.

    Because it's just that simple.

    I've been re-reading JR's always changing account of that window: Smit and Kane carefully asked JR many questions, going back to it again and again, and John was confused, maybe this or that, can't remember, he went in that window A FEW TIMES, he says at one point, but when he broke it, might have been years, he is so vague. They lead John through that morning, that afternoon, when did he go down, which window was open, etc., like pulling teeth to get him to commit to any details. Kane and Smit try to jog John's memory--when were Patsy and the kids in Charlevoix, etc. John seems like he's as focused as if having a beer on a lazy Sunday afternoon, not trying to help LE find the man who murdered his child. They finally get him to at least admit that was between June and August.

    When did John go down to the basement that morning--oh, maybe a two hour "block" of 9 to 11--except Kane reminds him about some details that show it was actually before 8, from what John was describing. Why did you close the window which was "cracked open" and lock it? Oh, it wasn't that unusual (other than HIS DAUGHTER IS MISSING). Oh well, he was so upset, we know....

    But lo and behold, then John tells the story of him and Fleet going down there that afternoon in great detail, down to what John told Fleet about the window, finding bits of glass, which way the suitcase was turned, where it had been before, how it got in the basement at all, to turning the doorknob on the cellar door.

    Then Smit brings up the debris in the crime scene photos, and BAM! John says yeah! I see that! Looks like it's been disturbed! And IT WOULD HAVE BEEN SIX MONTHS SINCE I'D BEEN IN THERE!

    This is so Ramsey. Just can't remember, just don't know, too upset, too confusing, too long ago...until it's all about the intruder story! No problems with memory then.

    And this is why I can't give JR a complete pass on participating in the crimes in some element--sexual assault, bludgeoning, strangulation--and/or the cover up.

    It's why I just can't walk away. Every time I get to the point where I accept it's history and time to let it go, Team Ramsey strike again. Then I remember they're no less than big bullies who have the power and money to make everyone else suffer for their failings--and do.

    But they don't have a care. Mary Lacy answered their prayers, John says in his book. As Cherokee pointed out, clearly they weren't praying for the intruder to be found.
    Last edited: May 17, 2012
  6. koldkase

    koldkase FFJ Senior Member


    No pills, Elle. I do drink two mugs of coffee early in the day, so that must be it. :coffeeup:
  7. Elle

    Elle Member

    In all seriousness KK, it is good to see all of you still keeping all these ridiculous scenarios from the JonBenét Ramsey case before the public.

    No news from Tricia yet! [​IMG]
  8. Niner

    Niner Active Member






    Thought with new posts, it was Tricia posted with news...

  9. Learnin

    Learnin Member

    Well, Elle, Tricia's tease got me dustin' off the old books again. ST's book is so tattered, with pages falling out, that I'm going to have to buy another one I'm afraid. Maybe I'll just download it onto my pad if it's available that way.

    I wanna be psyched for this new info.
  10. Elle

    Elle Member

    You'll do just fine, Learnin, with all the wonderful posts you have contributed here.

    I didn't realize we would be waiting so long for this news, Learnin. It might have been better if Tricia hadn't mentioned it at all and waited until the correct time to release it. However we all do things differently, don't we?
  11. koldkase

    koldkase FFJ Senior Member

    Aw, hang on, y 'all. We've waited for 15 years; we can wait a little longer....

    And that gives us time to collect enough beer cans to stock the bar, get the chips 'n dips ready, and book a medic.

    Cause when this happens, Team Guttah is going to


  12. koldkase

    koldkase FFJ Senior Member

    Me, too, Learnin. I've been pouring over old crime scene photos, transcripts, and getting mad all over again. :banghead:

    I mean, John Ramsey HIMSELF referred to JB's head injury as "ACCIDENTALLY..." in the '98 interview with Smit and Kane.

    So she died a SLOW DEATH? Geez, I thought the great Ramsey geniuses swear she died a quick death, with the head blow coming during the strangulation. No? Well, I guess John would know....

    And excuse me, John, but did you say Patsy hadn't SEEN THE AUTOPSY REPORT? Gosh, let's see what she had to say about that in HER interviews with Haney at the same time in '98:

    Over three days of interviews, Patsy changed her story...I know, we're shocked!

    But a couple of pages later, we see Patsy admits she actually SAW the heart drawn on JB's hand--the morning of the murder. Oh, this passage just SLAYS ME, as you can feel the lawyers and Team Ramsey peeing their pants. I'm going to quote most of this part of the interview as this is so damning to Patsy, she actually comes back the next day, after being prepped by her lawyers, no doubt, and tries to explain her little "mistake." But in so doing, she then puts the lie to what JR told Smit and Haney about not having a copy of the autopsy...unless she was lying herself--again. Either way, ONE OF THEM IS LYING:

    I love how she turned that bus straight at Santa McReynolds and put the pedal to the metal.

    Now let's imagine what happened when Patsy walked out of that interview that day....

    Oh, yeah.

    Because here is what she said FIRST THING the next morning in her continuing interview with Haney and DeMuth:

    And just like that, they all dropped it. They moved on to discuss Patsy's current medication schedule. Amazing.

    I want to point out the quite transparent structure of the disclaimer Patsy and Team Ramsey engineered: Patsy, ever the journalism major and advertising professional, BURIED THE LEAD. She started out with xeroxed photos of JB found on the washing machine--very minor detail--and then seamlessly transitions into her excuse for "seeing" the red heart "in her mind." Just a small thing...and then she moved into the Barnhills caring for the dog, as if it were yet another minor piece of info to clear up, of course. For some inexplicable reason, Haney and DeMuth act like it's no big deal, they all movie on.... Ha! How many times did that happen in these interviews? No follow up, feeding her the answers, cuing her answers. Who believes they simply forgot to FOLLOW UP on that HUGE ADMISSION?

    But let's say, for the sake of argument, she did just "imagine" the heart from reading the autopsy report. Now why would Patsy have the autopsy report and read it without John being aware of that at all? THE AUTOPSY REPORT OF THEIR MURDERED CHILD? Who believes that Patsy hid the autopsy report from John and read it in secret?

    Okay, if you believe that, then you're in PDI territory.

    But if you don't believe that, then John was at least helping in the cover up. Why would he do that? It's a small detail to lie about, isn't it? Why wouldn't he admit he read the autopsy?

    Back to that little slip up: "JOHN RAMSEY: It's hard to discuss
    11 with her accidentally (INAUDIBLE).
    12 MIKE KANE: What would that be?
    13 JOHN RAMSEY: That there was her skull
    14 fracture...."
    Last edited: May 18, 2012
  13. koldkase

    koldkase FFJ Senior Member

    I know I'm jumping around, off topic for this thread, but I have a method to my madness: when Tricia's news comes, she may have a radio show on it and I want to have some talking points in one place for her in case she needs them, as she is really busy with the forums and all the cases she keeps up to date on.

    So much of these details of testimony, evidence, and the Ramseys' own statements would have been brought out in a trial for this murder, had there been one. Because there was no trial, with no one from LE talking to counter the public relations spin of Team Ramsey, we have to search for the information ourselves, as you all know.

    Here's another thing that has always bothered me, speaking about the "heart" or image on JB's hand found at autopsy: did anyone else notice the bumps, like a rash, there? It's rare to get a rash on the palm of your hand, so I wondered what caused that? Looking at the transcript I quoted above, I've had an Aha! moment: using a harsh chemical to remove marker from a hand could indeed cause a rash. (Lord, is there any torture this child didn't endure?)

    If this is what caused that rash, this means Patsy--or someone--tried to remove that marker ink on JB's hand. That night? The night she was murdered? After the White's party?

    Think about that.



    Attached Files:

    Last edited: May 18, 2012
  14. whitewitch1

    whitewitch1 Senior Member

    7 TRIP DeMUTH: Let me ask you this.
    8 Do you remember what color it was? Is there a
    9 color that you recall?

    10 PATSY RAMSEY: No, I just see a red
    11 heart in my mind.

    Newsflash, Patsy - Red IS a color.:abnormal:
  15. Elle

    Elle Member

    It's okay for you Oh young one! What about the Seniors like me, growing older by the minute? :-(
  16. Learnin

    Learnin Member

    You have been busy, indeed! Very interesting exchange. That is really a stunner there when John mentions "accidental". We have to keep in mind that John and Patsy had high powered attorneys sitting along side so it would be hard for investigators to get "tough" with them. If it was Jack Squat and his wife, you can imagine how the investigators would have pounced upon some of these statements.
  17. Learnin

    Learnin Member

    Keep it coming, koldkase, I'm all ears.

    There does appear to be some bumps there which could be caused by scrubbing. Something to think about....
  18. Elle

    Elle Member

    I think the drawing and the removal of the heart may have happened at the actual party, KK. Maybe JonBenét tried to remove it herself, because after the party, it would be a case of getting the child home and put to bed I would think. No time for a bath etc. With JonBenét having been carried up by her Dad as stated in the evidence.
  19. Elle

    Elle Member

    I have always believed the head blow came first with Jonbenét being thrown up against the bathtub, Learnin, with the garrote being used as a cover up of the injury to the head. Makes more sense to me. The person responsible for causing the blow to the head had to cover up the abuse. I name Patsy Ramsey here! jmo Many others think this is what happened.
    Steve Thomas and Delmar England to name a few.
  20. koldkase

    koldkase FFJ Senior Member


    Seems Miziz Patsy was in true DENIAL mode....
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