Ramsey house at 755 (previously 749) 15th Street

Discussion in 'Justice for JonBenet Discussion - Public Forum' started by JustinCase, May 18, 2004.

  1. JustinCase

    JustinCase Member

    Article Published: Tuesday, May 18, 2004

    Ramsey's Boulder home sold to televangelist's daughter

    By The Associated Press

    Boulder - The home where 6-year-old JonBenet was killed is being sold to the daughter of "Hour of Power" televangelist Robert Schuller.

    Carol Milner and her husband, Tim, expect to close on the 15-room, Tudor-style home next week for $1 million.

    "Our Realtor said, 'Here's a wild idea'," Tim Milner said. "I said, 'I'll go look, but I don't know.' All we saw was compassion for the little girl. ... The house didn't seem weird."

    Carol Milner grew up in Southern California, where her father's Crystal Cathedral Ministries is based. She lost a leg in a motorcycle accident as a teenager, and was a member of the U.S. disabled ski team based in Winter Park in the 1980s.

    The 6,800-square-foot house John and Patsy Ramsey bought for $500,000 in 1991 has been renovated since their daughter's death in 1996. The basement room where her beaten and strangled body was found has been sealed off by a new wall.

    The Ramseys moved to Atlanta in the months following their daughter's still-unsolved death. John Ramsey is now seeking election to the Michigan Legislature.

    In 1998, a private group of investors comprised of Ramsey friends purchased the home for $650,000. University of Colorado football strength coach E.J. "Doc" Kreis called the house home for two years before he was fired a year ago. It also housed a number of CU graduate students.

    The Milners and their four children moved from California to Boulder in 2002. Tim Milner said they outgrew their home and the Ramsey house seems like a good fit.

    He said they checked with the kids, ages 9 to 17, before committing to the sale, and at first they were a "little freaked out."

    "But the house we're in now is a hundred years old, and I'm sure people died in this house," Milner said.

    Tim Milner said he is not worried about a steady stream of curious onlookers coming to the home, though he plans to add a plaque with their family name to the house.

    He said he also hopes an address change in June 2001 - from 755 to 749 15th St. - may throw people off track.

    "Maybe I'm being dumb," Milner said.
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 3, 2012
  2. Watching You

    Watching You Superior Bee Admin

    Well, God bless 'em, and I really mean that. I couldn't live in that house knowing what happened to JonBenet there. I mean, aren't they afraid the killer might return?

    Yeh. Right. They probably know they have nothing to fear from JonBenet's killer.
  3. JustinCase

    JustinCase Member

    Home Of JonBenet Murder Sells For $1 Million

    New Family Says Kids Were Bit 'Freaked Out' At First

    "The house in Boulder is under contract by Carol Milner, the daughter of "Hour of Power" televangelist Robert Schuller.

    Carol Milner and her husband, Tim, expect to close on the 15-room home for $1.05 million next Monday."

    "Tim Milner says his children, ages 9 to 17, were a "little freaked out" about the house at first, but told the Boulder Daily Camera that after he saw the home, "All we saw was compassion for the little girl. ... The house didn't seem weird."

  4. JustinCase

    JustinCase Member

    I couldn't live there either, then again according to Mr. Milner, the soon to be new owner of the house, only a death occured there:

    "But the house we're in now is a hundred years old, and I'm sure people died in this house," Milner said.

    Wow, that's got to be one of the eeriest [and insensitive] comments I have ever heard, this is an odd statement to be making about a murder; I know the scene didn't look as bad as the Wonderland Murders but come on.

    A little girl was sexually assaulted, strangled and beaten to death and left in the disaster they called their basement to decompose as dozens of people wandered about the house looking for anything out of the ordinary out out of place, or the bleakest possibility that even though there was a ransom note left on those spiral stairs, that MAYBE she'd be there somewhere.

    She was in the house but she was dead. She didn't die of natural causes or even as the result of an accident, she was killed and other actions were taken to hide the true cause of the murder; information like this USUALLY tends to leave a 'stain' on the 'feel' of the home.
  5. Freebird

    Freebird Active Member

    Guess I'm too superstitious, cause I would not put my children into a house where another child had been brutally murdered. There has been in that house, at that time something very wicked and evil.

    I have been into houses that have made the hairs on my body stand up for no apparent reason and some houses give you a warm fuzzy feeling. There is an air to houses, a spiritualness of their own if you will and the Ramsey house has an evil in it you can't board up behind a wall. The world is full of houses I'd pass on that one.
  6. LurkerXIV

    LurkerXIV Moderator

    I don't like it.

    I have a bad feeling about this. But then, I am very superstitious. I am not comfortable with young children living in that house. I hope Carol and Tim are very conscientious about turning the alarm on every night.

    I, personally, would never buy a house where a murder or a suicide occurred.
  7. 1000 Sparks

    1000 Sparks Active Member


    there's a new wall up in the basement...where she was found????

    THAT would creep me out.
  8. JustChillun

    JustChillun Member

    It was well done...

    You never know what has been sealed off, even evidence may be still behind the new wall. For all we know...Sorta like when Shelley Sikes was murdered in the Galveston County (TX) area, my husband still thinks that her (as yet) unrecovered body is under the foundation of the murderer's dad's "new" house, as the perps (who were on drugs) did remember burying her in some sort of soft sand, and the foundation for that house was poured soon thereafter. Sometimes the technology which is yet to come is aided by such preservations of the ghastly.
  9. Ginja

    Ginja Member


    Mike Bynum headed the group, Friends of the Ramseys, who bought the house from Ramsey for $650,000. They're the group who leased it out to various occupants over the years.

    As soon as the Ramseys were out of there for good, Bynum went in and destroyed any and all evidence by repainting, recarpeting, and walling up the wine cellar where the body was found.

    I've said it from day one...Bynum is covering up his friends' tracks. He took over immediately, refusing to let the cops into the Fernie's to interview the Rams...he told Arndt and Mason that the Rams had lawyers and they were to direct their questions with Haddon's office.

    Bynum was a former prosecutor and knew everyone in the BDA's office, and actually ran things from that office using DeMuth's office to make phone calls! He visited daily to see what news he could gather from the police investigation through DeMuth. And more than likely, it's DeMuth who passed on the information about Eller asking Myer if Myer could keep the body longer...thus the body-for-ransom spin was hatched.

    DeMuth was pulled from the case (too late) by Hunter and eventually left the BDA's office to work ... where? Why, in Bynum's firm, of course!

    Someone please explain why this kind of collusion has been swept under the rug!

    (Note: I might have DeMuth mixed up with Hofstrom)
  10. Deja Nu

    Deja Nu Banned

    Well, well, well. After sitting inactive for all these years, how timely that the Hell Hole has just been sold for a million bucks. Say hello to John Ramsey's campaign funds-probably because the prospects of voluntary donations are as nonprolific as donations to the JBR Foundation always were. And say goodbye to "poverty" from all the crushing expense of defending yourselves against false allegations, John and Patsy. Wonder if he's elected if he'll find a spot for Bynum in his staff??????
  11. "J_R"

    "J_R" Shutter Bug Bee

    Investors buy Ramseys' 15th Street home

    By MATT SEBASTIAN, Camera Staff Writer

    Friday, February 6, 1998

    A group of investors bought the former Boulder home of John and Patsy Ramsey on Thursday and pledged to resell it at a later date, donating profits to the JonBenet Ramsey Childrens Foundation.

    In a statement released Thursday morning, local attorney Michael Bynum said the house sold for $650,000 to an investor group named after the Ramsey homes address, 755 15th St., L.L.C.

    The group, according to Bynums statement, is "composed of individuals assisting the Ramsey family."

    Colorado Secretary of State records show 755 15th St. was incorporated Jan. 21 and lists Boulder resident Anne Bork as its registered agent. When asked Thursday about the purchase of the Ramsey home, Bork said, "I dont have any comment on that."

    Bynums statement says the group will hold the home "for an as yet undetermined period of time" before offering it for resale. Any profits will go to the JonBenet Ramsey Childrens Foundation, a group set up by the slain 6-year-old's parents.

    John and Patsy Ramsey, along with their 11-year-old son Burke, haven't lived in the home since JonBenet was found murdered. In July, the couple purchased a home reportedly worth $750,000 in an Atlanta suburb.

    The Ramseys bought their 6,800-square-foot Boulder home in 1991 for $500,000. The four-bedroom, 61/2-bathroom Tudor-style home has been renovated since then. Prior to JonBenet's death, the family reportedly turned down a $2 million offer for their house.

    According to Bynum's statement, the Ramsey family already had sold the home to a "relocation service" retained by John Ramsey's employer. Whether the employer in question is Access Graphics - the company Ramsey founded - or its former corporate owner, Lockheed Martin, is unknown.

    Ripmaster said he couldn't comment on how much the relocation service paid the Ramseys for the house, or when it was originally sold.

  12. "J_R"

    "J_R" Shutter Bug Bee

    Maybe Kreis only leased it?
  13. RiverRat

    RiverRat FFJ Sr. Member Extraordinaire (Pictured at Lef

    Ramsey house up for sale?


    Ramsey home for sale
    Agent mum on asking price of 6,866-square-foot house

    By Charlie Brennan, Rocky Mountain News
    November 11, 2005

    BOULDER - One of Colorado's more infamous homes is for sale - again.
    A sign recently appeared in front of 749 15th St. in Boulder, formerly 755 15th St. and once the home of JonBenet Ramsey and her family.

    The sign identifies the listing agent as the same person who has handled the property during its previous resales, Joel Ripmaster of Colorado Landmark.

    The current owner, Tim Milner - contacted in Southern California, where he said he was vacationing - said the 6,866-square-foot Tudor-style University Hill house is still his family's residence, but that it is for sale - sort of.

    "I don't know if it's for sale," he said. "Unless you guys are buying it. If you want to pay me money - like, a million and a half dollars - I'll sell it to you."

    Asked whether the for-sale sign was not a pretty reliable indicator of the property being for sale, Milner hedged.

    "Somebody could have just stuck it there," he suggested. "It is Halloween - or, was."

    Ripmaster, however, confirmed that the house is for sale, but wouldn't elaborate on the price.

    Milner and his wife, Carol, the daughter of Hour of Power televangelist Robert Schuller, bought the brick house June 2, 2004, for $1,050,000, according to Boulder County property records.

    The Ramseys had been living in the house for several years when JonBenet was reported missing by her parents on Dec. 26, 1996.

    A 2 1/2-page ransom note demanded $118,000 for her safe return. But seven hours later, the girl's father found her body - beaten and strangled - in a little-used room in the cellar.

    A 13-month grand jury probe ended in October 1999 without indictments. The case remains unsolved.

    The Ramseys and their son, Burke, then 9, never spent another night in the Boulder home. The family now lives in the resort town of Charlevoix, Mich., their longtime vacation home.

    Milner said that every time a television feature or news story on the killing appears, the value of his home drops.

    And, he complained of the continuing problem of curiosity seekers stopping to have their pictures taken in front of the house, now screened somewhat by a fence and trees.

    It was because of gawkers that previous owners changed the address.

    "You guys are just creating a circus" by continuing to write about the house and its history, Milner said.

    Asked about living there, Milner responded: "It's a wonderful house."

    For sale

    • Square footage: 2,050 square feet on the main floor; 3,112 square feet on the second floor; 1,704 square feet in basement

    • Rooms: 15, including four bedrooms

    • Bathrooms: Five full
  14. koldkase

    koldkase FFJ Senior Member

    Hellhole empty and up for sale?

    On Inside Edition tonight in my area, they did a short piece on the murder of JonBenet. Pretty much the same old confused BS, with Schiller talking a couple of times, and former ADA Wise saying "...MALE CAUCASION DNA...IN THE PANTIES..." and not from anyone in the family. (Or anyone PERIOD, the point was made by the voice over.) Yep, that's a quote, folks. Hunter's former right hand man said it--MALE CAUCASION DNA. Personally, I sure hope there has been a breakthrough in DNA identifying ethnicity, because if not, this pretty much puts the SEAL OF STUPID on those involved in solving this case FOREVER.

    Schiller did point out that Patsy's handwriting was "...very, very similar to the note...she couldn't be excluded but it couldn't be definitively proved it was hers." However, as per usual, he then turned around and said most likely was an INTRUDER! Go figure.

    Wise said some evidence pointed to inside the home, some to an intruder. The Carnes/Keenan/Wood "most likely an intruder" media blitz was used as the final slant of the "guilty party" issue. Blahblahblah. Same ol' same ol'.

    However, then the reporter was seen in front of the Hellhole, where a "For Sale" sign was up. The reporter said the house is now empty and priced at about $1.5 million. Then the realtor was shown and he said not a lot of interest in the house from interested buyers. What?! A mil and a half for a home people will be gawking at for the next 50 years? What a bargain!

    Well, anyhow.... Just more trivia.
  15. Paradox

    Paradox Banned for Stupidity by RiverRat

    Type: Tudor. ?????????

    The Tudor part is more like a fascade. Most of the house is a pinkish stucco monstrosity. Kind of like the back end got a tumor.
  16. Sabrina

    Sabrina Member

    Here's the tumor in the back. Great analogy.

    Attached Files:

  17. wombat

    wombat Member

    That "tumor" thing in the back is something I never understood. It was done that way, with stucco, because it's cheaper, but it looks soooooo bad, as do the dormer additions on the "master suite" floor in the front. They look like somebody temporarily raised the roof of the Tudor section when you look at it from the front, or like the house is surprised. The stucco could at least have been faux brick stucco to match the rest of the house a little better.

    I think all that was done before the Ramseys bought it, though. Their renovations were all inside, like setting up that weird master suite with no doors for privacy. Also they installed the circular staircase and the kitchen renovations, and decorated with zillions of flower wallpaper and striped waistcoating, etc. We call that style "housitosis" in my neck of the woods.

    Whatever, the house is a deal at $1.7 mil in that area, I'm guessing. I think it's a teardown, like the Sharon Tate house, and won't sell until it's priced that way.
  18. Cherokee

    Cherokee FFJ Senior Member

    I agree. I was at the house in March 2004, and there was a For Sale sign in the yard then with the same realtor, Joel Ripmaster, listed as the agent. We talked to one of the college kids who was renting a room in it, and he said it had been sold. Sure enough, we found out later that Schuller's daughter had bought it, but that didn't last long, and it was put back up for sale not too long afterwards.

    It's the only house on the street that has a wrought iron fence surrounding the front, and a tall wooden slat fence all around the sides and back. That really stands out since the other houses have open yards.

    Of course, most people would recognize it as the infamous Ramsey house. In addition, the number change from 715 to 755 doesn't make sense because the houses around it kept their original place numbers. It's a red flag to any potential buyer that something's not right.

    The college kid said cars of people came by every week to get out take pictures all around the house. This was 7 1/2 years AFTER the crime when nothing major was going on with the case.

    The house will always have a mystique about it as people will want to see the crime scene for themselves. You'll never get rid of the pilgrims, true crime buffs and gawkers. This case will go down in history with other unresolved crimes. For that reason alone, the house will retain aura of interest for many years to come.
  19. Moab

    Moab Admin Staff Member

    We call it early american basement or early american ugly where I come from.

    All their taste was in their mouth when it came to decorating the inside!
  20. koldkase

    koldkase FFJ Senior Member

    OK, after I started this thread and looked up the online info last night, I picked up the 3 tabs I bought yesterday and started reading. Yep, I bought the Globe, The National Enquirer, and the National Examiner, all. (Hanging my head in shame.) Well, of course the stories are to be taken with a grain of salt...okay, a pound...but the pictures are quite nice of JonBenet, among other things.

    Like THE HELLHOLE--a large pic of the house as it is now is in the Globe. (Sorry I misled you, IcedTea, with the thread title. Didn't mean to do so.) Yes, there is an article entitled...waaaaait for iiiiiiiit..."HOUSE OF HORRORS FOR SALE...again!" (No, I did not make that up, if you were wondering.)

    So...some of the info we got from the online listing and a similar picture is in the article. But there are a few other gems as well.


    How's that? :ghost:

    The article says the house first sold in 1998 "to a team of investors for $650,000." Grad students lived there, and then the football coach for 2 years, until he was fired and moved on in 2003. Then "a bizarre deal was struck a year later." That deal seems to have been bizarre because it was sold at half its value, for $1.05 million, to the "Hour of Power" pastor Dr. Schuller's daughter and her family, the Milners. Carol Schuller Milner's husband is a pastor, as well.

    But there's more dramatization, and I have no idea if any of it's true or not:

    So now the house is for sale for $1,695,000. It's been empty for 3 months, since the Milner family moved back to California. More info on the house's amenities is given. With the info about JonBenet's murder in the basement, of course:

    So...there you have it...for the most part.
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