Ramsey house at 755 (previously 749) 15th Street

Discussion in 'Justice for JonBenet Discussion - Public Forum' started by JustinCase, May 18, 2004.

  1. zoomama

    zoomama Active Member

    Oh and one more thought on the house: I noticed that in several of the photos they used what may have been a side door then as the front door now. The famous peaked roof front door and candy cane walkway entrance is almost obscured from view (at least in these photos) and we are shown the other entrance.

    As a side note when we visited the house 6 years ago (has it been that long!) they had already put up the iron fence in front and planted several bushes and trees in that same front area to sort of hide it I guess. I'm sure that was done to hide that famous entrance and change it. I am to understand the looky loos still ride by all the time...hidden or not it is still there.

    And a further aside, I recently saw a picture of the famous house where OJ killed his ex wife. It is completely changed by adding a high solid stucco wall to hide the brick walkway that had all of her blood on it in the photos. There is nothing to see at all. Just fyi
  2. Cherokee

    Cherokee FFJ Senior Member

    The Milners can't sell the Ramsey house albatross!

    According to the listing at :


    Timothy and Carol Milner (daughter of Robert Schuller) took the Ramsey house off the market on 4 April 2012 after having it listed for sale for over a year. Beginning 8 February 2011, the Milners were asking $2,300,000 for the house.

    By the way, the Milner's asking price of over $2 million is more than twice, and even three times, as much as the worth of other houses in that neighborhood! It's no wonder the "Hell Hole" hasn't sold. You'd think the Milner's would cut their losses and run, but apparently, they can't admit they were suckers and bought a pig in a poke, then spent a bunch more money trying to turn it into a silk purse.

    Attached Files:

    Last edited: Jun 3, 2012
  3. Elle

    Elle Member

    The Ramsey house should be bulldozed! The End![​IMG]
  4. koldkase

    koldkase FFJ Senior Member

    Agree, Elle. It's got a load of bad karma on it now, metaphorically speaking.

    A U. of Co. coach who once lived there was accused of sexual misconduct with a student, if memory serves. He lost his job.

    The current owner paid for this house with money she "made" from her daddy's ministry--Robert Shuller. Now his church has been in a huge scandal, accused of grossly over-paying his family members who worked for him while the rest of the employees and vendors went unpaid. The congregation was left with the bankruptcy bill: the Crystal Cathedral was managed with greed and ego.

    Now Shuler's daughter who still owns the Hellhole has it over-priced and it won't sell. Not to mention...the murder thing.
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 2, 2012
  5. Cherokee

    Cherokee FFJ Senior Member

    I agree, Elle!
  6. Cherokee

    Cherokee FFJ Senior Member

    That's the part I don't get. The house already has a stigma and instead of lowering the price for that reason, the Milners have increased the price since their last failed attempt to sell the house, trying to get every last penny out of it they can.

    The Milners bought the Ramsey house in 2004, and according to news articles, they haven't lived there as a family since about 2006, when the Milners moved everyone back to California. After that, Carol said they sometimes used the Boulder house for a "writing retreat"; which means, it was a huge, expensive waste of money they didn't know what to do with.

    So basically, the house has only been lived in for about two years since 2004. Before that, it was rented out to Boulder students/professors who lived there communally after the house went unsold for years because no one would buy the place from the Ramsey "friends" who took it off John and Patsy's hands. The house will always be infamous as a crime scene. All of the Milner/Shuller whitewashing with Crystal Cathedral money can't remove the stain.
  7. cynic

    cynic Member

    Since John is certainly not averse to making money from the death of JonBenet, perhaps he can buy his Boulder house back and turn it into a Graceland-style, Ramseyland where he offers visitors lessons in knot making and crime scene staging among other favorites.

    Last edited: Jun 3, 2012
  8. Cherokee

    Cherokee FFJ Senior Member

    :floor: :floor: :floor:

    It's the perfect crime scene getaway!

    (pun intended) :D
  9. DeeDee

    DeeDee Member

    They have completely transformed the inside of the house, and the basement, thank God, looks unrecognizable. No ghosts of JB are in that house, I can assure you. She has truly moved on.
    The outside looks a little unkempt. I'd complain if I were a neighbor.
  10. cynic

    cynic Member

    :highfive: :yay: LOL

    Perfect Murder, Perfect Town, Perfect Getaway?
  11. Cherokee

    Cherokee FFJ Senior Member

  12. heymom

    heymom Member


    One of the best graphics I have ever seen! hilarious! Don't forget the "Faceless Creature" Fright Walks outside! LOL
  13. Karen

    Karen Member

    That is freakin' awesome!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
  14. koldkase

    koldkase FFJ Senior Member

    Yes, cynic has become quite the little mischief maker, hasn't he? :angeldev:
  15. cynic

    cynic Member

    Who, me? :angel:
  16. Cherokee

    Cherokee FFJ Senior Member

    Ramsey house in Boulder still up for sale


    Ramsey house timeline

    November 1991: John and Patsy Ramsey buy the house at 755 15th St. for $500,000.

    Dec. 26, 1996: JonBenet Ramsey is found dead in the basement of the home. Her family never spends another night there.

    February 1998: A group of investors buys the home for $650,000, pledging to resell it and donate profits to the JonBenet Ramsey Children's Foundation.

    1999-2001: E.J. "Doc" Kreis, the University of Colorado's speed, strength and conditioning coach, rents the house before being fired and moving to California.

    June 2001: The address is changed to 749 15th St.

    May 2004: Tim and Carol Milner buy the house for $1.05 million.

    July 2008: The house is listed for sale at $2.68 million

    May 2009: The house is listed for sale at $2.29 million

    February 2011: The house is listed for sale at $2.3 million

    2014: The house is listed for sale at $1.98 million

    The site of Boulder's most notorious crime, the 15th Street home where 6-year-old JonBenet Ramsey was found dead in 1996, remains a tough sell.

    A decade after it was last purchased, the 5-bedroom house at 749 15th St. remains on the market, having been up for sale, on and off, since 2008.

    The current listing on the Bernardi Real Estate Group's website, now 127 days old, prices the property at $1.98 million, nearly twice what it was purchased for in 2004 — but less than it's been listed for in recent years.

    "The elegance of past generations combined with modern updates makes this beautifully updated 1920s home unique!" the listing says. "Grand rooms, great light & an oversized gated lot in one of the nicest and most sought after neighborhoods in Boulder!"

    Representatives of the Bernardi Real Estate Group could not be reached Monday.

    The Ramseys purchased the house, then known as 755 15th St., for $500,000 in 1991, according to Boulder County assessor records.

    In 1998, the Ramseys sold the house for $650,000 to a group of investors.

    The current owners of the home, Tim Milner and his wife, Carol Schuller Milner — the daughter of "Hour of Power" televangelist Robert H. Schuller — purchased the home for $1.05 million in 2004.

    The home has been on and off the market since, and as recently as 2011, the 7,240-square-foot house was listed for $2.3 million.

    JonBenet Ramsey was found dead Dec. 26, 1996, in the basement of the home several hours after Patsy Ramsey called 911 to say her daughter was missing and that a ransom note had been left behind.

    No charges have ever been filed in the case.

    Contact Camera Staff Writer Mitchell Byars at 303-473-1329, byarsm@dailycamera.com or twitter.com/mitchellbyars.[/I]
  17. Cherokee

    Cherokee FFJ Senior Member

    From the article ... "February 1998: A group of investors buys the home for $650,000, pledging to resell it and donate profits to the JonBenet Ramsey Children's Foundation."

    The group of Ramsey friends who bought the house and pledged to give any resale profits to the JBR Foundation didn’t give it a penny from the house sale. Of course, the Foundation was a front anyway. As posted here at FFJ on another thread, I’ve been through all of the Foundation's public records.


    Not only does the Foundation not exist anymore, it received very little money, and what money it did received didn’t go to ANYTHING but the Ramseys ... EXCEPT when Tricia called into that John & Patsy Ramsey interview and asked what the JBR Foundation had actually done. Ever the quick thinker, Patsy lied and said they gave $1,000 to Mt. McSauba, a day camp that JBR had attended in Charlevoix.

    A reporter there keep checking on it, and Patsy had to write a $1,000 check and give it to Mt. McSauba as a face-saving measure because she'd said in the interview, the money had ALREADY been given. When Mt. McSauba said they hadn’t received any money, Patsy was forced to write a check, but it came from the Ramsey's personal account, not the JBR Foundation. But what the hey, the accounts were one and the same anyway since the JBR Foundation was only a publicity stunt.
  18. Cherokee

    Cherokee FFJ Senior Member








    May 2, 2008, 9:42 am, Fri May 2 9:42:45 CDT 2008

    Originally Posted by RiverRat
    And how many books did they sell?!

    Thanks for asking. First, let's look at some background information taken from the www.supportramseytruth.com website:


    JonBenet Ramsey Children's Foundation TRUTHS

    - The JonBenet Ramsey Children's Foundation was incorporated March 31, 1997

    - Where are the $15,000 PER year pledges from John and Patsy Ramsey?

    - Where are the Grants?

    - Where is the SHOES organization?

    - Where is the legislation to protect children against predators?

    - Where is the legislation to advocate child murders to a federal offense?


    JonBenet Ramsey Children's Foundation ~ The Mysteries ~ Facts and Fiction


    The web site link above contains 130 documented historical archived references, including links to download files on the "JonBenet Ramsey Children's Foundation Articles or Incorporation," "JonBenet Ramsey Children's Foundation ByLaws," "JonBenet Children's Application for Recognition of Exemption forms," "1997/1998/1999 and 2000 Federal Income Tax forms. In addition, the web site contains excerpts from documented testimony from both John and Patsy Ramsey in legal depositions/interviews, Quotes from John and Patsy Ramsey's book, "Death of Innocence," Newspaper article references, Quotes by and about John and Patsy Ramsey from public interviews.


    There are "130 documented references on this web page above" directly relating in one way or another to the JonBenet Ramsey Children's Foundation. The foundation was set up as the source of funding for the $100,000 reward being offered. In the Ramsey's book, "Death of Innocence," HB page 164/165 where the Ramsey are explaining the purpose of the JonBenet Ramsey Children's Founation, they are quoted as, "Patsy and I guaranteed a reward of one hundred thousand dollars."



    Included sources of monies pledged and possible donated contributions from friends and family, corporations and the general public. John and Patsy Ramsey pledged $15,000 PER YEAR for 1997, 1998 and 1999. There are no contributions of this scale from any source in any one of the three tax years listed.

    The Ramseys friend/attorney Mike Bynum pledged profits from the resale of the Boulder house, Ramsey friend Linda McLean pledged all profits from the sale of her book when it was released August 21, 1998, Ramseys pledge profits from their hard back book released March 18, 2000 after legal expenses and ALL of the profits from their soft back (January 2001 edition) book. Ramseys book had a first printing of 300,000 copies.

    John Ramsey even said in August 2000 that one of his original plans was to sue the tabloids and donate the money to the JonBenet Ramsey Children's Foundation. Although the Ramsey said there were no plans for fundraising, a Ramsey press release was issued in February 1997 giving a bank address in Colorado where public fund contributions could be sent. In March 26, 2000 an Internet poster who made a donation to the Foundation in Janaury received an e-mail from "PtsyR@aol.com" and signed by John Ramsey. That e-mail provided a new foundation address for donations as P.O. Box 724505, Atlanta, GA 31139.


    Included the $100,000 reward, plans to offer a grant program, plans for an outreach program called SHOES that would advocate legislation, SHOES would offer resources and rewards, SHOES would use tools to track pedophiles, SHOES would put reward funds in place, SHOES would advocate child murders to a federal offense. John Ramsey said in an online ABC Chat "In Their Own Words" on March 20, 2000 that he wants the Foundation to protect children against predators, through legislation and that he wants child murders to be a federal offense. Where are the grant programs? Where is the SHOES organization?

    Early documentation shows that the Ramsey family web site at www.ramseyfamily.com displayed press releases as well as ads and flyers the Ramseys sent out in search for their daughter's killer in the spring and fall of 1997. Later the web site was used to advertise the $100,000 reward. In December 26, 2001, Ramsey attorney, Lin Wood is quoted in the media as saying that the Ramsey family no longer has the reward money. By November 25, 2002, the Ramsey family, via their attorney Lin Wood stated they will no longer communicate with one Susan Bennett whose web site URL is listed in the Ramsey's books and was on their Ramsey family web site as the main source for the garrote illustrations. By 2003 the Ramsey family web site no longer existed and the domain at www.ramseyfamily.com expired April 19, 2004.

    Patsy Ramsey said in August 2000 during the Atlanta interviews that she had never even seen the JonBenet Ramsey Children's Foundation books or financial records. The Foundation was opened on March 31, 1997 and Patsy Ramsey is listed as the President of the Foundation.

    The Bylaws of the JonBenet Ramsey Children's Foundation stated, "the Board of Directors shall annually prepare a report, verified by the President and Treasurer or by a majority of the Directors, to be prescribed at the annual meeting of the Board of Directors, showing in appropriate detail the following: (a) the assets and liabilities, including the donated funds, of the Corporation as of the end of the fiscal year."

    The Board of Directors consisted of John Ramsey and Patsy Ramsey.


    May 2, 2008, 10:09 am, Fri May 2 10:09:48 CDT 2008

    Now, let's see how many of the 300,000 Death of Innocence hardcover books published on March 10, 2000 had their profits donated to the JBR Foundation.

    Oh dear, this doesn't look good. I can't believe it. The JBR Foundation was terminated in 2000!


    JBR Foundation Records:


    Foundation terminated per IRS

    Per 990 PF dtd 08/29/01:

    Contributions received: $1,405
    Donor: Unknown
    Charitable contributions made: $0
    Recipient of charitable contribution: None


    How could any of DOI's profits be donated to the Foundation if it closed that same year?

    And what about the paperback version of Death of Innocence? It states that: AUTHORS' PROCEEDS FROM THE SALE OF THIS BOOK WILL GO TO THE JONBENET RAMSEY CHILDREN'S FOUNDATION."

    The paperback version of Death of Innocence was published on January 1, 2001.

    How can the proceeds from a paperback published in 2001 go to a Foundation that closed in 2000?!!


    May 2, 2008, 10:15 am, Fri May 2 10:15:09 CDT 2008

    Originally Posted by Elle_1
    I saw Patsy's quick reaction on TV talking about a certain amount had been donated to some charity, with the check being written after the show. Something like that (?). What a farce this foundation was.

    A farce, indeed. More like a flat lie.

    It was TWO WEEKS after the show when a reporter checked with the day-care camp and found out there had been no check forthcoming from the Ramseys or any foundation. Of course, we know the JBR Foundation was defunct by then, but Patsy didn't know we knew. She was playing to the audience after Tricia's call-in question. It was a quick attempt by Patsy at CYA. When the reporter called the Ramseys to say the day-care hadn't received any funds from them, Patsy quickly wrote out a $1000 personal check and hurried it down to the day-care. She had been hoping no one would follow up on her lie about the donation from a foundation that didn't exist.


    May 2, 2008, 10:28 am, Fri May 2 10:28:38 CDT 2008

    Originally Posted by Karen
    Thanks I've seen that but I think I meant the part about what he has to report monetarily to the public. Where is that report?

    I'm not sure if I know what web site you're asking for, but there is a lot of information regarding the JBR Foundation on ACandyRose's site at the following:

    Here are some excerpts from ACR's excellent timeline regarding the JBR Foundation and Death of Innocence.

    03-10-2000 Ramsey book has a first printing of 300,000 (RMN)

    03-18-2000 JonBenet Children's Foundation (DOI HC Pg 164-165)
    03-18-2000 SHOES Foundation Outreach program (DOI HC Pg 390)
    03-18-2000 SHOES will advocate legislation (DOI HC Pg 390)
    03-18-2000 SHOES will offer resources and rewards (DOI HC Pg 390)
    03-18-2000 SHOES will use tools to track pedophiles (DOI HC Pg 390)
    03-18-2000 SHOES will put reward funds in place (DOI HC Pg 390)
    03-18-2000 SHOES will advocate child murders/federal offense (DOIpg390)

    03-18-2000 Bookstores report sales brisk (www.tennessean.com)

    03-28-2000 LKL - John Ramsey re: Profits to legal then foundation

    05-31-2000 LKL - John Ramsey says book money going to charity

    08-29-2000 Atlanta 2000 J.R. re: Foundation no fund raising plan
    08-29-2000 Atlanta 2000 J.R. re: Denies providing address for fund raising
    08-29-2000 Atlanta 2000 J.R. re: Offended on questions re: Foundation
    08-29-2000 Atlanta 2000 J.R. re: Original plan was to sue tabloids
    08-29-2000 Atlanta 2000 J.R. re: Never solicited public funds
    08-29-2000 Atlanta 2000 J.R. re: Wrote DOI because they needed the $$
    08-29-2000 Atlanta 2000 P.R. re: Never seen foundation books
    08-29-2000 Atlanta 2000 P.R. re: Never seen foundation financial
    08-29-2000 Atlanta 2000 P.R. re: Never did any fund raising

    00-00-2000 Foundation Tax form: Revenue $1,405, Contributions $.00

    01-00-2001 DOI PB edition profits to JBR Foundation ONLY


    May 2, 2008, 5:03 pm, Fri May 2 17:03:02 CDT 2008

    Originally Posted by RiverRat
    Both John and Patsy said the JonBenet Ramsey Foundation is still in existence.

    Not true. The JBR Foundation did not exist after 2000.

    Quote from Patsy Ramsey:
    "It's been more of a family trust," Patsy explained. "It's not very active. There's some money in it, but not thousands and thousands of dollars."

    So THAT'S what happened to the almost $18,000 left in the JBR Foundation when they quit filing paperwork with the IRS in 2000. The Ramsey just put it in their personal finances; a so-called "family trust."


    1. Is it LEGAL to take money designated by donors for a specific non-profit organization and make it part of your personal finances?

    2. If so, did the Ramseys do the necessary paperwork to take the money that had been given to a non-profit organization and put it in their "family trust" bank account?

    3. Since the JBR Foundation did not exist after 2000, where did the promised proceeds for the Foundation (from the paperback edition of DOI) go? Did they also go into the "family trust"?

    4. Why are the Ramseys allowed to get away with saying one thing and doing another?

    5. Why hasn't anyone been concerned about the lack of accurate and legal financial accounting concerning the Ramseys and the JBR Foundation?

    6. Why are the Ramseys allowed to lie with impunity and say the JBR Foundation exists when it clearly does not?

    7. Why isn't there someone in the mainstream media courageous enough to set the record straight about all the Ramsey lies, half-truths and cover-ups?
    Last edited: Mar 18, 2014
  19. zoomama

    zoomama Active Member

    Cherokee WOW! That is as good an explanation as to where and how all the money went poof right into the bank acct of the Ramseys. And no of course not, money can't just be taken out of a donors acct and deposited into a family trust. I can just imagine what kind of paperwork it would take if for some odd reason it was done in a legal way. As far as why are the Ramesys allow to say one thing and do another? Well only once answer: L.Ron Wood! I do believe that the press, magazines, radio, other lawyers are just not ready to do battle with him. He is vicious legally in protecting his clients.

    You did an excellent job here. Thanks.
  20. Cherokee

    Cherokee FFJ Senior Member

    You're welcome, and thank you for still caring.

    There's more to this sordid story ... and that does not even include the so-called Patsy P. Ramsey Ovarian Cancer Foundation that was incorporated as a 501(c)(3) tax exempt organization and also organized as a nonprofit. It was the business that has received income from the sales of Patsy's artwork. Apparently, John pocketed that money, too, and the website:

    http://www.patsyramseyfoundation.org/ has been defunct for several, just as website for donations to the JBR SHOES FOUNDATION:

    www.ramseyfamily.com has been defunct since 2003.

    Here are the details of the JBR SHOES FOUNDATION big lie:


    The following summation of Foundation activities was derived from official public legal and IRS documents. Very little activity occurred during the life of the Foundation. When Patsy lied on the May 12, 2004 LKL show about the Foundation giving $1,000 to a day-care camp, she knew the Foundation had been defunct for over four years.



    EIN: 84-1397683

    Directors: John Ramsey
    Patsy Ramsey

    Officers: President - Patsy Ramsey
    Vice President - John Ramsey
    Treasurer - Gail Heinzman

    Statement of Purpose: "To raise money for children's education and care" and to protect against "the victimization of children."



    Incorporated in April as non-profit corporation in Colorado w/IRS registration as 501(c) charitable tax-exempt organization

    Media articles and Crime Stoppers ad disclose JBR Foundation offer of $100,000 reward for information regarding "well dressed male" approaching children at Christmastime, 1996; no such funds in Foundation account to back up offer

    Per partial 990 PF dtd 08/19/98:

    Contributions received: $12,533
    Donor: John Ramsey
    Charitable contributions made: $769
    Recipient of charitable contribution: Unknown
    Market value of trust assets (including interest earned on bank account: $4,354


    Per partial 990 PF dtd 08/18/99:

    Contributions received: $2,703
    Donor: Unknown
    Charitable contributions made: $0
    Recipient of charitable contribution: None
    Purpose of charitable contribution: N/A
    Market value of trust assets (including interest earned on bank account: $5,506


    Per 990 PF dtd 08/25/00:

    Contributions received: $3,865
    Donor: Unknown
    Charitable contributions made: $2,000
    Recipient of charitable contribution: St. Johns Episcopal Church, Boulder
    Purpose of charitable contribution: "Assistance to children's programs
    and other unrestricted church use"
    Market value of trust assets (including interest earned on bank account: $6,415


    Foundation terminated per IRS

    Per 990 PF dtd 08/29/01:

    Contributions received: $1,405
    Donor: Unknown
    Charitable contributions made: $0
    Recipient of charitable contribution: None
    Purpose of charitable contribution: N/A
    Market value of trust assets (including interest earned on bank account: $7,860


    Line 8a: Foundation reports to state of Colorado but CO "does not require any report"

    Part IXA Summary of Direct Charitable Activities: "N/A"

    Part IXB Summary of Program-Related Investments: "N/A"

    Part XVI List any managers of the foundation who have contributed more than 2% of the total contributions received by the foundation before the close of any tax year (but only if they contributed more than $5,000): "NONE"

    Part XV Grants and Contributions Paid During the Year: "NONE"

    Part XVI-B Relationship of Activities to the Accomplishment of Exempt Purposes: "This section is blank because the foundation's revenue was either from gifts or from interest on its account. The foundation generated no income from activities."

    Statement 1/Form 990-PF/Part 1 Line 1/Contributions, Gifts and Grants: "No single contributor gave $5,000 or more during the year."
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