Discussion in 'Justice for JonBenet Discussion - Public Forum' started by Cherokee, Jul 24, 2012.
So sorry about your brother-in-law Tez. How Sad!
As for the Ramseys they were such a callous pair!
I thought the same thing, Tez, that Patsy looked like she was on heavy doses of Valium, and that both of them had to be lying. No parent could lose a child like that and be talking about "moving on" in less than a week. I would NEVER be able to move on, and would probably have to be institutionalized. Patsy and John's behavior makes more and more sense if we consider that it may have been Burke who delivered the blow to JonBenet's head. They would want to "move on" in order to keep the one child they had left.
I too, am sorry to hear about your BIL. It must have been a horrible thing to go through.
My thoughts exactly, especially the sentence I bolded.
Patsy and John had a reason to "move on" with their lives; the protection, and raising, of Burke. They didn't want to lose him also. All the lies, all the misdirection, all the rehearsed answers, and all the innocent people thrown under the Ramsey bus, happened because Patsy and John had to shield Burke, and later, had to shield themselves for participating in the cover-up of what really happened to JonBenet.
What the Ramseys didn't realize in their cover-up was the ransom note was too long, and the crime scene was too staged; but, they still might have gotten away with it if Steve Thomas hadn't been brave enough to write a book exposing the corruption and unethical actions in the case, starting with Boulder DA Alex Hunter's office.
Another thing the Ramseys, and the Boulder DA, didn't count on was how the internet, in its infancy, would play a huge part in the dissemination of evidence and information from the case. JonBenet's death was no longer was a local case that could be hushed up by local lawyers, politicians and back-room deals, as has been done since time began. Once the Ramsey case went worldwide on the web, the Ramsey's cover-up was seen for what it was.
Thanks to James Kolar, another courageous detective who saw that Boulder DA Mary Lacy, Alex Hunter's replacement, had no interest in pursuing the truth and evidence about the Ramsey case because it might "hurt her relationship with the Ramseys," we now know more of the story.
Consequently, a huge rip has been torn through the shield of the cover-up that began on Christmas night 1996. The events surrounding JonBenet's death are starting to fall into place and make sense, and the reasons FOR the cover-up are being confirmed.
"A horrific domestic accident," as stated by Dr. Henry Lee (who saw all the Ramsey DNA and case evidence) WAS the catalyst that threatened to expose family secrets of sexual abuse/experimentation and a less-than-perfect family. In order to protect a child, and possibly others, the truth was twisted into a ligature, and reality was laid to rest in a cold basement.
If the Ramseys couldn't save JonBenet; they COULD save Burke. Patsy and John always said it was a good thing JonBenet died when she did because she had fulfilled her purpose on this earth, and she would never know the heartache of cancer or the LOSS OF A CHILD. What a chilling thing to say, but it's the closest we ever got to a confession from Patsy and John of what really happened.
There is nothing worse than the loss of a child; except the loss of another child.
Well stated, Cherokee. Very well stated. From all the quotes that KK has posted, I expect this book to have an effect on the Ramseys. They will try to deny it, disclaim it, destroy it and the author, but since his book is based on the case evidence, they won't be able to accomplish that.
Television didn't help the Ramseys disappear either. The coverage of the pageant aspect of JonBenet's short life captured a lot of people's attention and drew a lot of criticism, but even that might have eventually died away had it not been for the internet. However, the internet also gave rise to the Ramsey Spin Team and people like Jameson and Mame. :shrug:
Dr. Lee was wrong about one thing, though. He termed it an "horrific domestic accident." But whatever was brought down upon JonBenet's head that night was no accident. Perhaps the person who did it was angry, but anger is no accident. Neither was the staging an accident. Accidental homicide, I suppose...No intention to kill the other, but using deadly force does mean something.
I sure can't say what I would do in such a terrible situation...IF Burke really did smash his sister's head in. He couldn't be prosecuted in Colorado, but I suppose he would have been removed from the home and institutionalized for some time, at least. Maybe his anger was specific to JonBenet and now that she is gone, he is not a risk to others. I don't know if anyone knows, but if anything happens for the rest of his life, the shadow will pursue him, and could overtake him at any time.
Yes, well done.
And JOB Ramsey was looking at number three.
And Patsy, as Kolar points out in his book, was looking at her last child.
Remember she had lost her uterus and ovaries to cancer.
I know people who are like the Ramseys. They believe they are god-fearing, righteous, good Christians in every way.
But they can make up and drop a lie in a heartbeat, to accomplish their own personal agenda.
And they believe that lie the minute it leaves their lips. They justify it to themselves and hold fast to it with all their being.
When you look in their eyes, they won't flinch as they repeat the lie like it is the gospel truth. It's a truly awful thing to see a human being so self-deluded.
Yes, according to JOB Ramsey, about when Burke is 40.
Yes, Elle, if there is one word to describe the Ramseys, it's callous.
Patsy repeatedly told LE JonBenet's bed-wetting issues were "no big deal" compared to "I'VE HAD STAGE FOUR CANCER" standards.
Urine soaked sheets? No big deal! Feces in the bed? No big deal! Poop smeared on the chocolate candy? No big deal!
JonBenet being sexually assaulted? NO BIG DEAL!
I believe it was that callousness that resulted in the death of JonBenet.
Perhaps the tragedy of losing Beth and then Patsy fighting cancer and nearly dying made them all hard.
So when JonBenet, so small and vulnerable, was being abused, she was yet another "problem" to deal with.
It's very common to blame the victim when incest is "uncovered" in the family. Very common. Even if she was only blamed as "half" of the problem, she was still being punished.
And then she got the death penalty.
I wonder why he pulled that number out of the air? Maybe after his own death? When Burke is 40, John will be over 80, more like 90. Or, dead.
You know, there is one problem I just can't work out. OK, say Burke did hit JonBenet over the head that night, and either left her on the floor (likely in the train room) and went back up to bed, or more likely, got scared and ran to Mom and Dad. Patsy and John decide to cover up the act. How do they get Burke to hush up about what happened FOREVER? If they tell him it was an accident, what he did, then wouldn't he think it was nothing to keep from anyone else? If they tell him it was a dream, or it never happened, then he also might tell someone about his "dream" before JonBenet was kidnapped.
He didn't seem scared or intimidated, so I can't imagine that they scared him by telling him all the terrible consequences that would result if he said anything about what he did.
The only thing I can think of is if Burke really doesn't have a conscience and doesn't care that he may have killed JonBenet...but then, he might even want to brag about it at some point. I mean, he can't be prosecuted now for something he did when he was 9.
Tell me how you think Patsy and John could have told Burke that he had to be quiet about what had happened to JonBenet.
Maybe they just rolled the dice, again.
Maybe they said, "If you ever tell anyone, ANY ONE, what you did, you'll go to prison and never see us again, you'll be locked in a cage and there will be NO NINTENDO, EVAH!"
Truly, all we can do is guess.
But they sure did rush Burke out the door that morning. No questions, he was asleep!
Except...not. Which it took them how many years to admit? TO THE NATIONAL ENQUIRER? And only after his testimony for the Grand Jury when Burke said he was awake that morning? Was this because they feared it would all get leaked and they wanted to get out in front of it? :yes:
And the enhanced 911 tape was proof of it.
I doubt we'll ever know all the answers to this murder.
Kolar believes the answers are in Burke's medical and psychological records. He asked Lacy to subpoena those.
:floor: HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA!!!
She must have pooped her pants.
Here is the Ramsey quote about that, from the CBN interview with Scott Ross:
So it appears a therapist told Patsy and John Burke would have some residual guilt, etc., when he reaches 40.
I love how JOB Ramsey blames the media so thoroughly there...when you'd think he'd be focused on blaming THE KILLER.
At Websleuths, I just found a brilliant assessment of the Ramsey's psychological dynamic going on with this murder.
It's short and it's so interesting, if you want to check it out.
It's the first post on this page, or number 126:
The Ramseys always always ALWAYS made sure to point out to the media every time they spoke to them how they were such a normal, typical American family. Leave it to Beaver and Donna Reed. Now we know why that was mentioned so often and how it was so emphasized.
Burke was a typical 13 year old? I don't think Burke was ever typical his whole life.
I've raised a family myself. Two boys. They never played with their poop. That's just not normal, typical, I don't care what Patsy says.
It seems like there was/is (?) something really wrong with Burke.
Yes KK, the tragedy of losing Beth and Patsy's cancer had to alter their thinking. Too much too handle there!
I think I'm still leaning towards Burke being the one who hit JonBenÃ©t
over the head while she was eating her pineapple. I don 't know of the distance between the table and the counter where the flashlight was. I did mention this before. Being the way he was, I could see Burke just walking away leaving JB unconscious and not giving a hoot. End results, the Ramseys determined to keep Burke out of it, and instead of a 911 call, they add the finishing touches to the scene with the garrote, and using the jagged end of the broken paint brush,I'm seeing Patsy here trying to
cover up the previous sexual encounters she knew were there, but she wasn't successful according to the doctors who were asked for their opinion.
The plan did work for them. The police were up the creek without a paddle because of whole Shebang. I feel this was Patsy's plan. It paid off!
KK I haven't come across the feces in the candy yet. Oh good grief! I did print quite a lot yesterday and still have to read all of it. Hope I have that
part printed. This makes me ill. What exact page was that KK?
I won't receive my book until 17th August. Thank you so much for taking the time to post these pages from the book. You are a treasure!
Here's another thought. We always talk about how the Ramseys couldn't get JonBenet's body out of the house that night without being seen, and that the snowfall in the wee hours of the morning closed the door on being able to get rid of the evidence (JonBenet's body).
But what if the "fixer" or advisor told them that if they DID take JonBenet away from the house, THEIR DNA/fiber evidence would be the only thing present and would tie them to her murder? And told them that what they needed to do instead was contaminate the crime scene as much as possible, with others' DNA, fibers, fingerprints, etc. as well as having people clean up after the police? Maybe it was the decision that one way would mean it was likely that they, the parents, would be found out as the ones who tightened the noose, and going the other way would mean that nothing could be pinned on them for certain, especially if they mucked up the crime scene and then GOT THE HELL OUT OF DODGE.
Oh this is sickening, Karen. I hope I have this page printed (?). It is considerate of KK to post these pages from Kolar's book to keep us updated. I read that Burke may have Autism. Has this been confirmed?
Remember there were rumors that before the 911 call was placed that a call to the governor's office was made? Didn't the Rams have a relationship with him? Was this put in this book? I remember hearing about that back in the day and it is telling, if true.
If Burke "has" anything, it would be very mild autism, sometimes termed, "high functioning autism," or, more commonly, Asperger's Syndrome. The main thing about Aspies is that they are abysmal at social relationships. They can be very good with concrete bits of information, facts, etc. so are usually excellent students (in our system where facts are everything). But their people skills are at just about zero. They don't "get" facial expressions, body language, voice intonations, and can be very boring with their recitation of discrete facts. "Rain Man" is usually brought up in the course of the austism spectrum, but Aspies are way more functional than he was. Most of us know at least one.
But AFAIK, Burke was never diagnosed with anything, and in fact, has graduated from college with a B.S. in computer science, and is now working in his chosen field.
That's very interesting, Elle. I hadn't thought of the Maglight and JB at the table eating pineapple. It could be just that simple.
Here you go, Elle, post #5. The statement about the box of candy is some ways down the quote:
Well, if there wasn't, no doubt there is now.
We don't know WHAT Burke was diagnosed with because those medical records have never been relased, and Lacy REFUSED to issue a subpoena for them or ask the Ramseys for them as Kolar requested! Those records were exactly what Kolar needed to further the case investigation, but Lacy didn't want to hurt her relationshp with the Ramseys, and as KoldKase said, Lacy did everything but have Kolar arrested for even asking!
Just as with autism, there are varying degrees and levels of Asperger's Sydrome, and I personally know of one person in my family who has it, but he has functioned socially, has friends, etc. However, he has trouble reading facial emotions in others, and doesn't always know when he has hurt people's feelings. He is very bright with a high IQ, like most people with high-functioning Asperger's.
From everything I've seen about Burke, as well as his life now, he fits the high-functioning Asperger's Syndrome diagnosis. This includes the excerpts we've see from Burke's interview with the psychologist where he answered a question with "beep beep," seemed disinterested and detached, and was more focused on whether the pyschologist was wearing a Rolex than anything else. From a private source in WV, we know Burke attended some kind of special program when he was very young (before the move to Colorado) because of of his anger issues and being different, as the source put it.
One thing about people with Asperger's (who are mostly male) is that they don't do well when plans are changed or their things are "messed with." Like people with autism, if they set up something a certain way, they don't like for it to be changed. It's part of the OCD symptoms associated with autism and Asperger's. People with Asperger's have trouble dealing with frustration, so they they flash in anger.
As for Burke, he may have graduated from college with a computer science, but that doesn't mean he doesn't have Asperger's. Many people with Asperger's graduate from college (my family member included) and work in their chosen fields, especially in the field of computer science because they are so intelligent and are drawn to what some consider "nerdy" types of activities, hobbies and jobs.
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