Recent post by John Douglas

Discussion in 'Justice for JonBenet Discussion - Public Forum' started by Subdivisions, Aug 29, 2006.

  1. Subdivisions

    Subdivisions Member

  2. BobC

    BobC Poster of the EON - Fabulous Inimitable Transcript

    yeah. whatever.
  3. Watching You

    Watching You Superior Bee Admin

  4. BobC

    BobC Poster of the EON - Fabulous Inimitable Transcript

    John Douglas is keeping secrets.
  5. Watching You

    Watching You Superior Bee Admin

    He's also rewriting history.
  6. Jayelles

    Jayelles Alert Viewer in Scotland

    I didn't think he DID do a profile. There's been a discussion about this before. His "role" in the Ramsey case differed from his normal role.

    My understanding is that he might normally be hired by police to build a profile of an unknown killer based upon crime scene evidence. However, in the Ramsey case, he was hired to interview John Ramsey and say whether he thought he might have killed JonBenet. The problem I have with John Douglas' part in it all is that he didn't follow any recognised procedural format. For example, he didn't interview the Ramseys separately. He interviewed John Ramsey first. Now I have some recollection of John Douglas saying that sometimes he would be asked to interview a suspect to say whether he though they were guilty or not. However, John Ramsey was not being held as a suspect so I cannot see that Douglas would be able to interview him as though he were! Then Patsy got brought in and he barely questioned her at all.

    On this basis, I would say that the role Douglas played was of a lesser significance since he hadn't built a profile of the killer and since he wasn't interviewing two suspects in an environment where they were being held on a charge of murder.
  7. The Punisher

    The Punisher Member

    "The problem I have with John Douglas' part in it all is that he didn't follow any recognised procedural format."

    As so many of his colleagues have pointed out.
  8. Barbara

    Barbara FFJ Senior Member

    The problem with John Douglas is that he is John Douglas.
  9. Watching You

    Watching You Superior Bee Admin

    I think you're right, Jayelles. It wasn't a profile, exactly. I'm not exactly sure what it was. Profiling was supposed to be his expertise. In what other capacity would he be considered an expert? Just the fact that he was hired by John Ramsey and was paid, although he said he returned the money, is enough to skew his report. And, I'm not sure that in a courtroom, his expertise as an interviewer could be documented and upheld.

    I also remember hearing that Patsy was not interviewed at all - that she was catatonic - drugged - whatever.
  10. RiverRat

    RiverRat FFJ Sr. Member Extraordinaire (Pictured at Lef

    This is too easy....

    Grand Jury witnesses

    Some of the people known to have testified before the Ramsey grand jury:

    Mike Archuleta -- Private pilot who was scheduled to fly the Ramseys to their Michigan vacation home the day after Christmas 1996.

    Linda Arndt -- Now-retired Boulder Police detective, the first investigator on the scene.

    Dr. Francesco Beuf -- JonBenet's pediatrician.

    Debbie Chavez -- Colorado Bureau of Investigation forensics expert.

    John Douglas -- Former FBI criminal profiler hired by the Ramseys.

    Michael Everett -- Among the first Boulder Police detectives assigned to the case.

    John and Barbara Fernie -- Friends of the Ramseys who were summoned to the home after JonBenet was discovered missing.

    Richard French -- One of the first Boulder patrol officers on the scene. He searched the house shortly after arriving, without locating JonBenet's body.

    Ron Gosage -- Boulder Police detective working the case from its first days.

    Pam Griffin -- Ramsey family friend and seamstress who assisted with JonBenet's beauty pageant costumes.

    Jane Harmer -- Boulder Police detective involved in the case from the beginning.

    George Herrera -- CBI fingerprints expert.

    Linda Hoffmann-Pugh -- Ramseys' housekeeper at the time of JonBenet's death.

    The Rev. Rol Hoverstock -- Minister from the Ramseys' church, summoned to the home in the first hours of JonBenet's disappearance.

    Larry Mason -- Boulder Police sergeant removed from the case in its second week when he was wrongly accused of leaking information to the press.

    Dr. John Meyer -- Boulder County coroner; he performed the autopsy on JonBenet.

    Fred Patterson -- Boulder Police detective, among the first on the scene.

    Carol Piirto -- Burke Ramsey's third-grade teacher.

    Merv Pugh -- The husband of Linda Hoffmann-Pugh; he had done some work at the home a month before the murder.

    Burke Ramsey -- JonBenet's brother, now 12, the only person other than her parents known to be in the house at the time she disappeared.

    Lou Smit -- Retired Colorado Springs homicide detective who worked on the case for the district attorney's office.

    Tom Trujillo -- A Boulder Police detective on the case since its earliest days.

    Chet Ubowski -- Colorado Bureau of Investigation handwriting analyst who concluded that Patsy Ramsey may have written the ransom note linked to JonBenet's murder.

    Barry Weiss -- Among the first Boulder patrol officers at the Ramsey home.

    Fleet and Priscilla White -- Ramsey friends called to the house the morning of JonBenet's disappearance. Fleet was in the basement with John Ramsey when the child's body was found.

    Tom Wickman -- The Boulder police detective sergeant who has supervised the investigation since the early days.

    Former FBI criminal profiler John Douglas, hired by the Ramseys, also concluded the crime was likely committed by someone outside the family, and possibly by someone with a business-related grudge against John Ramsey.
  11. Ginja

    Ginja Member

    What bothers me in his post is his explanation of how he was brought back by Lacy.

    She took the investigation out of the BPD's hands on the premise that the BPD focused solely on the Ramseys. She also stated at the time that it would be "fresh eyes" looking into the matter.

    It was no such thing! All Lacy and the BDA's office did was bring back ALL the people hired or affiliated with the Ramseys, ignored all the evidence police collected, and focused solely on an intruder.

    In ANY investigation, suspects have to be investigated in order to be either cleared or further investigated! The BPD couldn't clear the Ramseys and the BDA cleared the Ramseys (although they say otherwise but the proof is in their actions) without investigating them at all!

    I think it's high time they either bring back Michael Kane to do the job right or bring in another special prosecutor. It's obvious the BDA's office does not know how to investigate a murder. Mary Keenan Lacy has NEVER TRIED A MURDER!


    Isn't this a similar claim made against the detectives (BPD)? None of them had experience in investigating a murder. Hell, JonBenet was Boulder's first and only murder victim in 1996!

    But the BPD had something the BDA didn't have. Linda Arndt was pulled from the sex crimes unit and Steve Thomas was pulled from vice. Both knew how to investigate illicit crimes and were used to dealing with the kind of element associated with such crimes. AND BOTH were emphatic:

    Linda Arndt: JR scared her and she patted her gun to make sure everything was in order in case she had to use it. IN CASE SHE HAD TO USE IT!

    Steve Thomas told Patsy to her face "she was good for it."

    But ooooohhhhhhh....let's get these people off this case because they don't know what they're doing and they're too focused on the family.

    So instead, the BDA brings in people like John Douglas who can tell by simply asking JR a few questions that he had nothing to do with his daughter's muder.

    And Lou Smit, all he has to do is pray with family to know that good Christians don't kill!

    The BDA's office should be investigated. This case needs to be pulled from them! No one in that office has a clue on how to investigate a murder.

    And they ignore the evidence....even their own.

    I get Newsmaxx...and meant to post the article here last night. But the front page was a huge story by a psychiatrist who claimed that the Ramseys were guilty...there was no intruder. What made this article interesting is that he was brought in by Alex Hunter in the early days and told exactly that!
  12. Watching You

    Watching You Superior Bee Admin

    So, where's the article, Ginja? I want to read it.

    Good post.
  13. The Punisher

    The Punisher Member

    "I get Newsmaxx...and meant to post the article here last night. But the front page was a huge story by a psychiatrist who claimed that the Ramseys were guilty...there was no intruder. What made this article interesting is that he was brought in by Alex Hunter in the early days and told exactly that!"

    What was his name?
  14. Freebird

    Freebird Active Member

    Mind boggling ain't it.
  15. Show Me

    Show Me FFJ Senior Member

    Douglas was hired by the Ramseys for like 50,000 dollars, didn't follow his own advice on how to interview the suspects and ended up returning most of the money because of the embarassing he could claim he didn't receive money.

    Once commited to the Ramseys, orginally by the money, he couldn't go back and say he was duped.
  16. Chebrock

    Chebrock Member

    Kidnapping, Ransom Note, Murder

    FBI profilers early on in the case stated that they had seen a kidnapping and a ransom note. They had seen a murdered child in the home without a ransom note and they've seen a kidnapping with a ransom note with the child murdered outside the home but NEVER NEVER have they seen a Ransom note without a kidnapping where the child's body was found inside the home.

    How can John Douglas believe that the parents didn't do this? It just boggles the mind.

    The first time I heard how the body was found, I knew the parents did it. It's common for someone who loves and murders a child to cover the body with a favorite blanket and to "care for" the child as if he/she was still alive. In addition, when a child is murdered in the home, intruders typically don't care how the body is found or who will find it. Parents on the other hand, especially when there is another child around who might find the body, tend to hide the body away to make sure the brother or sister isn't the one who finds it. They fear finding the body would be too tramatic.

    I had heard about those theories before this case broke. It all just fell into place for me.

    One of the things I hear intruder theorists say is that once you meet/get to know John and Patsy, you know they could never have killed JonBenet.

    There are many perfect families who have hidden various kinds of abuse, both physical and sexual behind the exterior of kind and loving parents. It's just not a big leap to believe that these socially upstanding parents killed their daughter.

    I also want to state that initially I desperately wanted to believe that they didn't do this. I still have a difficult time believing Patsy did it (I do believe she covered up) but after reading everything I could, listening to credible experts and just keeping open for the little things... I had to believe that the parents did it. The sad thing is, they maintain their innocense but are offended when asked to prove it. If they want everyone to believe they didn't do it, they need to prove it.

    I also believe one of the reasons the media and DA's office stay away from accusing the Ramseys too much is because of the lawsuits they tend to file. Who wants to get sued by the Ramseys. People like them are scary to deal with because they will tell blatant lies and sue instead of proving their point.

    Sorry for the long dissertation. It just came out now so I thought I should write it down.
  17. heymom

    heymom Member

    No, this is an excellent post. What you wrote about intruders not caring how the body is found is right on point. In fact, it probably would have been more of a shock to kill JBR and leave her right in plain sight. The idea of someone wrapping her up in her blanket and hiding her body after they have broken into the house is still ridiculous to me. All of these convolutions of thought are because people just cannot fathom that this kind of thing happens at all, let alone to a family as "nice" as the Ramseys. And if perchance anyone does have a thought that they did it (like the Whites), they daren't say it lest they lose everything they have in a lawsuit from John Ramsey. He has enough money to break anyone. The only type of person who could stand up would be someone with nothing to lose. And we all have something to lose.

    Good "dissertation," you pass!

    Heymom, as if she would know... :abnormal:
  18. Moab

    Moab Admin Staff Member

    Welcome home Cheb!
  19. Cherokee

    Cherokee FFJ Senior Member

    Excellent post, Chebrock! Keep those "dissertations"coming. :)
  20. Elle

    Elle Member

    More on John Douglas ( Courtesty of Little)

    Page 120 Steve Thomas HB "JonBenét"
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