Shooting in Salt Lake City, Utah, Mall

Glad to hear Tricia & MOAB are OK.

So much random violence, and in unexpected places. This morning in Philly five people were shot and killed at a business meeting. It also occurred at an old place converted for new use--the Philadephia Navy Yard.

It's just crazy.

 

One of the guys on video was on the 2nd floor and looking for something to throw down on top of the shooter, but he couldn't find anything and then it seemed like the police arrived. There was an off-duty policeman who did fire at the shooter but I don't know if he was trying to kill him at that point. I guess he would have had reason to.

I wonder if this young man was on drugs, either illicit or prescribed. I know people don't believe it's true, but certain anti-depressants can bring on a state of mind that makes acts like this possible. I've seen it personally and I don't think it's just a defense technique, not in all cases. It would be tough to prove such a thing, though. Not excusing the act at all - some of the chemicals we put in our brains have effects we don't understand and can't control.

 

It's not an excuse at all. There ARE, in some cases, especially with young people, violence and suicidal thoughts related to anti-depressants. Many years ago, there was a 60 minutes expose about Prozac and a few other drugs that seemingly were related to homicidal and suicidal ideations and it seems to affect young adults and teens more than any other age group.

Yes, it is pretty rare, but it can happen.

What is really sad is that there are too many parents and others ready to jump on "medications" when teens, etc. are troubled. Whatever happened to parenting and teaching your kids to "cope"?

I'm not talking serious problems (before you all kill me). I'm talking about normal troubles kids go through and parents who are running to therapists and their physicians to give them meds to make it better.

Same thing with "attention" problems. When I was young, and kids didn't pay attention in class, BEFORE they went to physicians, parents were called, and the kids got a good smack in the head and we paid attention after that. I know I did

Just sayin'

 

And sometimes people OFF their anti-depressants, anti-psychotics and other meds do things like this. Often, when a person stops taking the chemicals they need in order to make up for the ones they lack, it leads to harmful acts upon themselves or others.

This is well documented with schizophrenics who start hearing voices telling them to kill like Andrea Yates who quit taking her anti-psychotic and anti-depressants, but it can include a whole host of other mental health disorders.

Chemical imbalances in the brain are more common than people think, and many people try to self-medicate with alcohol, nicotine and street drugs. If there wasn't such a stigma attached to getting help for mental health, we'd have fewer crazies running around with guns. We think it's fine for a person to go to their doctor to fix a broken leg, but we judge and whisper about those who need help to fix a broken mind.

Until Congress is no longer in league with insurance companies and makes health care affordable in this country AND makes mental health care a part of a person's regular coverage, we will continue to see many random acts of violence. Of course, universal mental health care will not stop all of them, but it will reduce the number of people who are without any mental health care who will act out their disorder.

 

I too am relieved to know that Tricia and Moab weren't there when this horrible thing happened!

My heart goes out to the families and friends of the dead victims, and I hope the injured victims fully recover. Such a tragedy!

 

"The gunman was identified as Sulejmen Talovic, who had a backpack full of ammunition, a shotgun and a .38-caliber pistol, police said. A motive still was unknown."

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/17124042/

 

Is there some reason this mall didn't have its own armed security? We actually have a police precinct in our big mall in my town.

In many ways, we're not so different from countries where terrorists blow themselves up in public areas, when you think about it. Our "terrorist attackers" just use bullets instead of bombs.

 

One of the first times something like this happened was in Austin, Texas, in the 60s. Charles Whitman opened fire from the University of Texas tower on any and every innocent in his site. It is so very sad and so very wrong.

 

The next terrorist might just use a bomb. This man was a Muslim. Surprised? I'm not.

 

They Did Have Security At That Mall....

My brother just reminded me that my nephew, Tim, when he was studying Criminal Justice at the University in Salt Lake and living with his dad, was a security guard at this mall in the evenings to earn extra money for school expenses...

And actually, this boutique mall is where Tim met his wife Rachael also a college student, who was working in one of the shops there! I had totally forgotten about his association with this place as it was a few years after we visited there that he worked at the mall.....He is now a police officer with the Bernillio Country Sheriffs Dept. here......They work with and overlap with our local department APD....

Don't know where their security was....At the other end of that peaceful mall? Maybe things just happened too fast and they were not notified soon enough to help before the police arrived....I'm sure that there will be a complete investigation though....

Moab, I am not sure if we will get a gun for protection....With our grandaughters in and out of our home, where would we keep it so that they would never come accross it and yet be close-by enough for us to have it be useful should we have a burgler....It is such a conundrum you know?

Maybe I will PM you and see where you keep yours, how you handle the situation and how you go about training with a gun once you obtain one....

I guess we have always just hoped that our Schnauzers would scare away intruders, but thing have gotten really bad....At the Antiques Mall when I went today, one of the dealers, an older woman, was retelling her horror story from last week when home invaders put guns to the heads of her two women next door neighbors in their own driveway and escorted them back into their home.

They proceeded to tie them up, tape their mouths, and rummage through their whole home all the while threatening them because they said they had information that they had a safe and kept money in the house! (Evidently they had the wrong address because they had no safe and no big wad of cash....They are two hard working school teachers...

They live probably about three miles from here....This has been happening regularly throughout the city but especially in our quadrant of the city and we are all fearful.....The description sounds like the same gang intruding over and over....

Also many brand new Ford pickups being stolen....10 last week from peoples driveways....One was that of our good friend the night of our SuperBowl party, sometime before dawn....It was a special one worth over $50,000.....he had only had it a few days....It had 400 miles on it and now it is in someones "chop shop" or on it's way to Mexico....I think if Tom caught the guys he would literally shoot them!

Dang! Is this the Wild West or what?!

CB, my heart indeed goes out to you during this emotional time of giving up you beloved pup....As you know, we have gone through this with several of our Schnauzer children in the past and just cried our eyes out for days....I will be keeping each of you in my thoughts and prayers tomorrow, especially that Prissy goes comfortably and peacefully......God look over each of you and meet your Prissy at the Rainbow Bridge....

:hug:Voyager

PS Shadow, can't wait to read some of your new "stuff" over on the Political forum! Darn! Not even a beer? What kinda conference is THAT? Give me beer :help: !

 

I wondered about that when I saw his name, heymom. This is how terrorism is going to come back to the U.S., isn't it? Through our own immigration programs, U.S. citizens with Middle East and/or religious ties, or our ill-guarded borders.

 

Yep. That's it exactly, KK. Dontcha' know, our President just told us, his fellow Republicans, that "You can't control the border, unless you have a program to allow temporary workers into this country." WTF? Aren't you sworn to protect this country? Lord bless him. I sure don't. Woops, is this the political forum?

 

I have a 38 and hunting rifles at my house, but it does appear that one is safer at home than in schools and shopping centers. Do you think as many people were killed in break-ins to their homes in Salt Lake City all of last year as were killed in that one shopping center that one day?

The last year that I lived in Fairfax County (population about 800,000) there were around 11 murders in the county (pretty low for that population because of the cops to citizens ratio), and not one person was killed in a home break-in. I'm begining to think that we may need more protection when we are outside of our homes. Maybe we need to carry sideguns like the cowboys did...

 

So sorry to read about tbis shooting, Moab. I wonder what happened to this young man to make him go on a rampage like this (?). This is frightening.

 

You sound loaded for bear Shadow.....

:wood: :cowboy: :knight:
Don't know which way to go with defending ourselves, and Shadow....We have only had minor crime in our neighborhood before (Well, one murder when a man killed his wife and then put her body up on the mountain rocks behind our house about 10 yrs. ago, but they weren't really from this neighborhood)...

This will take some thought as we are such non-violent types....Mr. V. says about hunting that he has the "Bambi Syndrome".....LOL....But when we think about someone coming into our home and having the power of life and death over us and our loved ones, it surely makes one think more militantly and proactively doesn't it?

Several people have actually been murdered during these types of invasions in the past few years very close to home....though I am very careful to watch my back when I am out, and always remind my kiddo's to watch theirs, there is just no way short of a weapon that one can be prepared for an invasion every minute in you own home port!

Voyager