Sunday, August 4 2013, 8 pm (Eastern) - Police Chief James Kolar!

Discussion in 'Justice for JonBenet Discussion - Public Forum' started by Tricia, Aug 1, 2013.

  1. Tricia

    Tricia Administrator Staff Member

    Hey My FFJ Fine Friends,

    We are doing it again. Another fact filled show with Telluride Chief of Police James Kolar.

    Sunday night August 4th 8 PM Eastern

  2. zoomama

    zoomama Active Member

    Tricia, I hope you will address the very interesting and "new" ideas that Wendy Murphy brought up on your radio show last weekend. Here are some of the ideas that she mentioned: that the drug diazapene was used by the adult Ramseys and were questioned by LE for that usage. That the same drug was present in the uneaten pineapple left in the bowl on the counter in the kitchen. Tests were run on it but the results were not released. That because of the findings in JonBenet's eyes it was determined that she was strangled and then shaken harshly. That Burke had nothing to do with the murder. Child porn was involved and that is why the drug diazapene was used as it is common in child porn cases.

    All of this was a bit amazing and too much out in left field for me to take in. Where Wendy got all of this is another matter. But just to keep up with everything please ask Chief Kolar what if anything is true in her amazing story. Thank you.
  3. Tricia

    Tricia Administrator Staff Member

    I'll have to admit those new ideas Wendy Murphy came out with just threw me for a loop.

    It will be very interesting to see what he has to say.
  4. cynic

    cynic Member

    A reluctant rebuttal

    Wendy has gone down this road before but perhaps not quite as forcefully and authoritatively.
    Here are some old threads relating to the same topic:

    I posted this rebuttal over at Websleuths and I thought I’d repost it here.

    I don’t enjoy doing this because I have a great deal of respect for Wendy Murphy.
    Unfortunately, she made a number of statements that cannot be supported from the evidence.

    WM said, in essence, that the indictment of John and Patsy by the grand jury precludes Burke from having any involvement in JonBenet’s death.
    The focus of the grand jury was not on Burke. Why would they focus on someone who according to Colorado law was unable to form criminal intent because he was under the age of 10?
    The grand jury indictment of the parents simply means that there was evidence to show their culpability and participation, but that in no way implies that Burke therefore had no involvement.

    WM said that the “first three search warrants were for child porn.â€
    That is not true; the fifth search warrant was for child porn, and a single search warrant for child porn in a case were a child was sexually assaulted along with evidence of chronic abuse is hardly extraordinary.

    WM claimed that JonBenet died of a benzodiazepine overdose.
    Benzos can be detected by toxicology screening for up to six weeks.
    It’s also true that Benzos can be missed in preliminary drug screens and as a result I can’t say that Wendy is wrong, but her statement is nothing more than speculation.
    From JonBenet’s autopsy report we see the following:
    blood ethanol - none detected
    blood drug screen - no drugs detected

    WM further implies that the pineapple was tested and the results not released.
    The pineapple was tested and the results discussed in Steve Thomas’ book but the intent of the testing was not to screen for drugs. That would be a waste of time and money because the tox screen from the autopsy revealed that drugs were never an issue.
    The pineapple was tested to determine consistency with what was found in the digestive tract of JonBenet.
    The following is from Steve Thomas
    The stomach was empty, but the coroner found what appeared to be chunks of pineapple in the upper digestive tract. This also would be tested in an effort to determine to what extent the food had been digested, a key indicator in helping establish the time of death. Police would need to identify what she had eaten the day before, when, and where.

    JonBenet: Inside the Ramsey Murder Investigation, Steve Thomas, page 46

    Our experts studied the pineapple in the stomach and reported that it was fresh-cut pineapple, consistent down to the rind with what had been found in the bowl. It was solid proof that it wasn’t canned pineapple, and what were the chances that an intruder would have brought in a fresh pineapple to cut up for his victim?
    JonBenet: Inside the Ramsey Murder Investigation, Steve Thomas, page 215

    WM said that “the parents were asked at length about benzodiazepines in the home…why they were there, and why they had so many…â€
    I would hardly say that there was an inordinate focus on drug-related questioning, certainly nothing resembling what WM was implying. Furthermore, the focus of the questions seemed to center on possible effects on judgment and ability to remember details as the interviews were months and years after the fact.
    Some examples below:

    TT: Okay. The Ativan and the Paxel, um . . .
    PR: The Paxel is an anti-depressant.
    TT: Um hum. Either one of them, do you think either one of them’s kind of, uh, changing your thought process or clouding your mind, memory, anything like that?
    PR: No.
    TT: Okay. It’s not, not effecting any judgment or anything like that?
    PR: No, huh uh
    Patsy – 1997 Interview

    10 THOMAS HANEY: Do you have any side
    11 effects if you take any or all of these things,
    12 if you take any one by itself do you get side
    13 effects? If you take a combination of the
    14 Prozac and Benadryl and Ativan?
    15 PATSY RAMSEY: No, I think that's
    16 kind of (INAUDIBLE).
    17 THOMAS HANEY: Okay. Do you think
    18 that it affects your ability to understand
    19 questions?
    20 PATSY RAMSEY: No.
    21 THOMAS HANEY: To answer?
    22 PATSY RAMSEY: No.
    23 THOMAS HANEY: It hasn't affected
    24 you (INAUDIBLE)?
    25 PATSY RAMSEY: No.
    1 THOMAS HANEY: Just a couple of
    2 more quick ones here. Prior to the bout with
    3 cancer, have you had any psychiatric or
    4 psychological treatment complications?

    Patsy Ramsey - 1998 interview

    21 MIKE KANE: Any other medications along
    22 that line that she's taking?
    23 JOHN RAMSEY: No, I don't think --
    24 MIKE KANE: Not now?
    25 JOHN RAMSEY: Well, earlier on, we also
    1 took, it was like, I could never have been a
    2 doctor.
    3 MIKE KANE: Xanax?
    4 JOHN RAMSEY: No. Klonopin.
    5 MIKE KANE: Klonopin?
    6 JOHN RAMSEY: Klonopin. And that was kind
    7 of on an as needed basis for a while. It was kind
    8 of a quick, picker upper, I guess.
    9 MIKE KANE: Prior to this, had she ever
    10 been on any medication, I mean, would you know
    11 that?
    12 JOHN RAMSEY: Yeah, yeah. She was very
    13 healthy?
    14 MIKE KANE: Has she lost consciousness or
    15 anything?
    16 JOHN RAMSEY: No.
    John Ramsey - 1998 interview

    WM said that JonBenet died “from respiratory failure which you know is true because she had shaken impact injuries in her eyes…which is why she had those perimacular folds in the retina…â€

    The assertion that there were, “perimacular retinal folds,†is nowhere to be found in the evidence. Wendy Murphy is NOT a case “insider,†and has no access to evidence in the JonBenet case over and above what any member of the general public has.
    JonBenet did not have perimacular retinal folds according to the autopsy and it is not mentioned by either Steve Thomas or James Kolar. I can only be left to conclude that she is perhaps confusing the evidence in the JonBenet case with one of the many other cases involving child abuse that she is familiar with.
    The only phenomenon relating to the eyes described in the autopsy report is as follows and reveals that only petechial hemorrhaging was found which in this case is found because JonBenet was asphyxiated.
    In the lateral aspect of the left lower eyelid on the inner conjunctival surface is a 1 mm in maximum dimension petechial hemorrhage. Very fine, less than 1 mm petechial hemorrhages are present on the skin of the upper eyelids bilaterally as well as on the lateral left cheek. On everting the left upper eyelid there are much smaller, less than 1 mm petechial hemorrhages located on the conjunctival surface. Possible petechial hemorrhages located on the conjunctival surface. Possible petechial hemorrhages are also seen on the conjunctival surfaces of the right upper and lower eyelids, but livor mortis on this side of the face makes definite identification difficult.

    The only place in the entire autopsy report that describes anything else that might be construed as injury relating to violent shaking would be the paired (minimal) contusions on the tips of the right and left temporal lobes of the brain. It’s possible that this might have been caused by shaking, however, it would be more likely attributed to incidental injury relating to the skull fracture which, of course, would have caused movement of the brain within the skull.
    On the right cerebral hemisphere underlying the previously mentioned linear skull fracture is an extensive linear area of purple contusion extending from the right frontal area, posteriorly along the lateral aspect of the parietal region and into the occipital area. This area of contusion measures 8 inches in length with a width of up to 1.75 inches. At the tip of the right temporal lobe is a one-quarter by one-quarter inch similar appearing purple contusion. Only very minimal contusion is present at the tip of the left temporal lobe. This area of contusion measures only one-half inch in maximum dimension.

    Lastly, her comments about James Kolar obviously come from a complete ignorance of who he is and his motivation for writing the book. She should have said that she is unaware of his book and his credentials, and is therefore unable to comment, rather than launch into a baseless personal attack.
    Last edited: Aug 2, 2013
  5. Tricia

    Tricia Administrator Staff Member

    This is why we love Cynic. He is so flipping smart.

    I hope you can make the show Sunday Cynic. It won't be the same without you.
  6. koldkase

    koldkase FFJ Senior Member

    Bringing up the rear--hubs now has me so busy with his retirement "fun" I barely have time to keep up with anything else anymore:

    I do have some questions...ha:

    1. Besides the chronic vaginal inflammation found at autopsy, was there other evidence uncovered that JB was molested prior to that night, other than what is now in the public domain, i.e. the autopsy report, etc.?

    2. Was a DNA test done on the blood on the pillowcase in JB's bedroom which proved it was her blood? How does Kolar think it got there, if so? (Haney implied it was JB's in his questions about it to Patsy in 1998, specifically asking if JB had nosebleeds when they discussed the blood on that pillowcase.)

    3. Were the Ramsey's phone records ever subpoenaed at any point in the decade of actual investigation? If not, why does Kolar think that never happened?

    4. [Follow up to question 3] Does Kolar know about the Rapp prosecution and does he know if those case records, which included copies of the Ramsey's phone records, are still in the evidence room of the BPD?

    5. Did LE ever find JB's pink pajama bottoms in the house and collect or process them? She wore on Christmas morning, part of the set with the matching top seen in her bed in the crime scene photos.

    6. Can Kolar clarify the discrepancy of the two accounts of the fibers found on JB, particularly her genital area? (I'm sure you remember Smit said dark fibers came from the duvet in the suitcase, according to the CBI; Levin told JR in Atlanta they came from his shirt, according to the FBI.)
  7. zoomama

    zoomama Active Member

    I amaze myself sometimes when I "recall" some obscure info that comes floating to the surface now and then. And no I have no documentation on this little fragment at all except I think it was in NE or The Star way back when. Here it is. I read that when the Ramsey house was being packed up by the movers one large piece of furniture like a tall bookshelf or cabinet had a video cassette on the top of it behind some decorative woodwork as if hidden. That cassette was supposed to contain some porn. Well there it is.

    For years that little item has been floating around in my brain and just now decided to pop into view. Does it hold any truth at all or is it just a figment of the past? Anyone remember anything like that? And yes I realize that no documentation is a no no and I apologize for doing this.
  8. Thor

    Thor Active Member

    I remember that Zoom.
  9. zoomama

    zoomama Active Member

    OMG Thor, then I wasn't dreaming this up. That makes me feel better. LOL

    Thank you for that.
  10. koldkase

    koldkase FFJ Senior Member

    I remember that being discussed, as well, Zoomama and Thor. It wasn't the Spanish stun gun tape, was it? Lots of speculation, as I remember, but I can't say anyone nailed it down for us?

    Or maybe we have all forgotten through the years. It could have been mentioned in one of the earlier books, like PMPT?

    On Tricia's show tonight:

    Well, dear FFJers, faithful through all (take that, Patsy): seems it's official as per Kolar's response on Tricia's podcast.

    There is no law in Colorado which hasn't had the statute of limitations expire, related to any crimes committed in this case, other than murder.

    Since Burke was under age and can never be charged if he was involved and Patsy is dead, the only possible arrest involving the only people ever connected through the evidence to the death of JonBenet, the Ramseys, would have to be JR.

    Since Patsy will always and forever be reasonable doubt for any other person, including any "intruder suspect," but especially for JR...

    This case is in the freezer for good.
  11. Learnin

    Learnin Member

    Never say never, koldkase. On ID Discovery, just tonight, they covered the horrific/torture murder of my wife's first cousin who was in our wedding. She was killed in 1975 by two druggies who had done it all but murder someone. They stumbled across Sherry one night and the rest is history.

    At any rate, an attention seeker confessed to the crime and the sheriff was all too willing to close the case even though his story had many holes. Finally, in 2001, the lady, who was involved in the murder, couldn't take it any more and confessed.....It made me half sick watching it this evening.

    It is on Discover ID and will be repeated on Saturday at 6 to 7 p.m CST. Straight Through the Heartland: Wicked Attractions.

    Long story short....I believe there are still several people who know what happened to JBR and, as long as they are alive, there is a hope (however small it might be) that someone's conscience will need peace.
  12. Elle

    Elle Member

    Oh Learnin, so sorry to read about your wife's cousin. What a tragedy way back then. I hope you are feeling much better today. Life sure is a trial. isn't it?
    I can understand your feelings. I hope you are recovering
  13. koldkase

    koldkase FFJ Senior Member

    I saw that episode, Learnin. I had no idea you were related to the victim. So sorry for all the sorrow that brought to your family for so long.

    Yes, it was amazing how that woman told the truth after so long.

    I wonder if perhaps one day someone in JonBenet's family will need money or just get tired of the hypocrisy they've all displayed. God forbid any one of them ever imagines that a six year old child should have anyone who pretended to love her witness for her, as her killer silenced her forever so she can't speak for herself.

    Clearly they all believe sticking by the family delusions is most important.

    But who knows? There are a couple of wild cards in the bunch and maybe one of them will find a reason to talk about what they know. Or maybe a childhood friend will come forward.

    Or maybe not, because Lin Wood has done a good job of subverting justice through the civil law system. That's where American is today, sadly, in our sorry legal system: if you have money, you can do pretty much anything you want to people who don't or who don't want to get caught up in years of legal battles that go nowhere anyway.

    What we all know now is that Alex Hunter and Mary Lacy were Team Ramsey from Day One and they subverted justice for a murdered child. When the DAs are covering up the evidence for the killer, what hope can any of us have that a private citizen will ever feel safe to tell the truth?

    But you're right about one thing, Learnin: no one knows what is at work in the hearts and souls of those who carry such weight on their shoulders. Sometimes karma works its way around and deals a judgment far more severe than our legal system ever can.

    Ask Alex Hunter about that.
  14. Karen

    Karen Member

    Burke would be the only person to either come forward or make a slip of the tongue to effect this case. JR will never do it, Burke probably wouldn't purposely do it and I don't think anybody else knows anything else other than what we already know. I also think now that Patsys dead there is a feeling among Burke and JR of protecting her reputation so especially those two won't besmirch Patsys a wonderful mother whose heart was broken when a stranger crept into her home and killed her beloved daughter....and then was punished for years thereafter by the villainous BPD. Even if not for themselves, I think they would keep quiet to preserve Patsys perceived innocence.

    I think if Kolar says it's done, then it's done. Ramseys win.
  15. koldkase

    koldkase FFJ Senior Member

    I understand what you're saying, Karen. And I agree it's done, as far as any trial ever happening.

    But the Ramseys have not won. They will forever and all time be known as the prime suspects who used their power and money to destroy the investigation into the brutal death of their six year old child whose singular name is immortalized as a sexual abuse victim.

    That's not winning in my book.

    What I wonder is how many people do know things about the family that, in hindsight, explains a lot. Like the Ramsey's old friend, Pam Archuletta, whose marriage buckled under the stress of the Ramsey's ever needy patronage? Remember how the supportive Mrs. Archuletta told a reporter, in the middle of declaring the Ramseys innocent, how Patsy and John argued about the pageant participation and how Patsy herself expressed concern that JonBenet "flirted" inappropriately?

    JonBenet was six, and she was sexually abused in the days or weeks before her death, according to the autopsy. That's a fact that Team Ramsey can spin into eternity, but no one looking objectively at the evidence of this case is going to believe that was some bubble bath problem.

    So that little disclosure, from out of nowhere, by a family friend, says volumes.

    The family of JonBenet must fear this every single minute of every day of their lives: who remembers what? And will they talk?

    And one day, they very well may....
  16. Learnin

    Learnin Member

    Thanks, Elle. I didn't realize those two were that sick....
  17. Learnin

    Learnin Member

    Yea, we can only hope, koldkase, that some conscience is still active enough to come clean or some other circumstance will cause someone to come forth like in our case.
  18. Learnin

    Learnin Member

    I would mention another thing that Sherry's murder taught me. I learned how a father reacts when his baby girl has been tortured and murdered. I saw this strong man worn down over the years. I saw this man park himself inside the police station and become a nuisance; asking for info, demanding action, etc.

    Because of my experience, I was completely shocked at the reaction of JBR's father toward her murder. When I first read of this story, several years after the fact, it was one of the things that really jumped out at me and said:
    "Something's not right, here."

    In regards to the possibility of a confession. It's a long shot, but I do remember John's reaction to ST's statement on LKL when John and Patsy were present. ST said something like: "There's no forgiveness without confession." JR, immediately, jumped on this and replied to the effect: "That's not true, forgiveness is free." I paraphrase but the point is:
    John, obviously, had wrestled with this issue in regards to himself or his wife.
    JR knew his wife was religious and he delved into religion especially after Beth's death. If either was involved, or was covering, then, one or both, being religious, had to wrestle with the issue of forgiveness and confession.
    John's immediate correction of ST, and his agitation with the subject, speaks volumes. One can only hope, as death nears, JR's conscience will broach the subject once again.

    Yet, I can't help but think there are a few others who know or are sitting on pretty damning info and, for whatever reason, have not come public with it for whatever reason. We can only hope.
  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.
    Dismiss Notice