The alley and the back of the Ramsey house

Discussion in 'Justice for JonBenet Discussion - Public Forum' started by Learnin, Sep 29, 2009.

  1. Learnin

    Learnin Member

    I hate to start another new thread but I also hate to sidetrack another thread, so bear with me. Last week, my wife and I returned from a vacation to the rockies and, on our way home, we drove through Boulder. I've been by the house once before but I wanted to familiarize myself with some of the other houses and businesses which played a role in this sad affair.

    This time, I drove down the alley so I could get a better idea of how easy it would be for someone to enter or leave the house without detection. Frankly, I was shocked at how narrow the alley is and how close the garages are to the alley. I was thinking that the alley must have been wider and the backs of the houses and garages much further away from the alley. I was wrong. Also, there were a lot of shrubs and bushes which were close to the alley in the area of the Ramsey house. I suppose these might have been planted post crime in order to block curious eyes, etc.

    I have a question which I posed in another thread. Is the basement window, with the grate, at the back of the house or on the side? I read where a neighbor, to the back of the Ramsey house, said she had a dog that would bark whenever anyone was walking in the alley area. As close as the back of the houses are to the alley, I'm wondering how easy it would have been for an "intruder" to enter and exit at the back of the house without causing the dog to start barking.

    I know some of you have visited this area before. What were your thoughts about the close proximity of the houses?
     
  2. fr brown

    fr brown Member

    The broken window was on the west side so that would be the alley side. The front door is on the east. 15th Street runs north-south.

    A resident to the south said that a light that usually burned all night in the sunroom (solarium?) was off that night. I note that there is a door into (and out of) the solarium.

    There's a layout of the house here:
    http://extras.denverpost.com/news/jonhouse1016b.htm

    I think new threads are probably a good idea. I'll start some myself in the not too distant future.
     
  3. koldkase

    koldkase FFJ Senior Member

    Interesting, learnin and Fr brown, that I never noticed before that the house is actually at an angle of sorts on the property. But looking at the photo you posted, brown, and then others to find more photos with the alley side, I see that now.

    One of my favorite websites for references in this case is "Redd Herring". Here is a great page on that site with floor plans and some photos to help you get a reference point for the garage and alley.

    http://www.geocities.com/CapitolHill/Senate/6502/primer2/primer10_blue.html

    Here at ACandyRose.com are links to some other photos that were taken at the time of the murder and within a year or two, so maybe this will help with the landscaping issue:

    http://hellhole_photos.tripod.com/index.htm

    This is probably the best group of outside shots because jams made these on one of her holy pilgrimages to the house. There is no date, but I believe these were made within a couple of years of the murder, and because she was so keen on showing how the "intruder" had so many opportunities to get into the house, she took a lot of detailed photos of the outside. Notice in one group featuring the alley, she even shows a motion detector on a garage, though I believe that garage is not the Ramseys', nor do we know it was there at the time of the murder.

    http://jameson245_archive.tripod.com/index.htm
     
  4. Learnin

    Learnin Member


    Thanks. Does anyone know where this neighbor, who had a dog, lived in relationship to the Ramsey house?
     
  5. fr brown

    fr brown Member

    Thanks! It would be great to post links, at least, on your proposed photo page.
     
  6. koldkase

    koldkase FFJ Senior Member

    Yes, obviously lots of the photo pages will have to just be links. Photos are copyright protected in general, if they were taken by someone other than say the BPD crime scene photos. So I'm contemplating now which ones I can actually post vs just put up links. I don't mind the links at all, because it takes a lot of bandwidth to run photos and I don't want to overburden the forum. The downside, though, is that pages go down all the time and then we only have our personal stash. Without permission to copy and post some things, like the wonderful variety of floor plans put up by so many news org's. and even privately created ones, we really can't secure those here.

    ACR has a great selection, and she's gotten permission to archive many through the years, but the expense has been tremendous, so she's taken a lot down to put up new stuff.

    Well, I'll get up what I can. I have some time tomorrow to work a little on it, unless something comes up. I was thinking maybe I'd just put up the outdoor photos and links, since we've already started on that on this thread.
     
  7. Cherokee

    Cherokee FFJ Senior Member

    Post all the case photos you want, KK. We have a bigger server now, and if it's case related, Tricia won't mind the extra bandwidth. It's better to have the photos for future reference if the original page is unavailable later.
     
  8. fr brown

    fr brown Member

    Courtesy of koldkase's link, I looked at jameson's photos of the outside of the Ramsey house. I think the basement window under the grate would've been almost my last choice of a window to break if I were John Ramsey and I had locked myself out. There are ground level windows with what appear to be small individual panes of glass just above the grate and a similarly paned window on an adjacent wall. In one photo there's a door to the house which is paned the same way. Break one small pane next to the doorknob and it seems like you'd be in. No stripping down to underwear and contorting yourself required.

    Did Ramsey ever say why he chose to break the basement window? It does have the virtue of being less noticeable to passers-by, but I think 24-hour glaziers existed even in 1996.
     
  9. Elle

    Elle Member

    I think everyone will agree with you here fr. Who in their right mind would go through the scenario John Ramsey would lilke you to believe he did. I think he's a liar, and once again this ridiculous story is added to the fantasy of the ransom letter. As if a CEO would bother with all this kerfuffle to break into his own house with more convenient windows available. If I had been LE I wouldn't have given him the time of day and told him his story was false. However, along comes Idiot detective Lou Smit only too happy to join the Ramseys in prayers and believe every freaking thing they said.
     
  10. koldkase

    koldkase FFJ Senior Member

    John Ramsey's story about breaking that window and stripping down to climb in--WITH HIS SHOES ON, NO LESS--has more so many holes in it, it's beyond lying. JR was covering something up, IMO, probably who actually broke it originally, and/or the actual circumstances he didn't want LE to know.
     
  11. Learnin

    Learnin Member

    Besides. Why would one little pane of glass be that worrisome over night. A piece of cardboard could have been taped over it. I have to agree. It doesn't make sense that you would choose to get into your house through that basement window.
     
  12. koldkase

    koldkase FFJ Senior Member

    Here is a link to the photos I've posted on the outside of the house. We're putting them in the FFJ "Evidence" library. You can get there if you keep clicking links that have "JonBenet" in the name. It only takes me about 10 clicks--if I'm lucky!

    http://www.forumsforjustice.org/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=16

    Anyhow, maybe once I get enough photos up, we can get a sticky at the top of the JB forum...? Not that I don't love trying to find my way around this maze after 9 years.... :banghead:
     
  13. Karen

    Karen Member

    Are you collecting photos KK or do you already have everything? I have some I've saved from here and there. I'm not even sure where I got them from. I have a few of the bowl and glass on the breakfast table among other things. Let me know if you want to see them and I'll send them to you or post them here.
     
  14. koldkase

    koldkase FFJ Senior Member


    Thanks, Karen. I don't have all the photos for this case, that's for sure, but I do have lots more to post. I've been at it all day now, and the Thingie just stopped letting me upload photos at all, so I guess it's telling me to take a break. (It's probably Chero about to have a stroke with my "organization" skills. haha) That's okay, as I'm tired. I was getting to the table and pineapple when the thingie just quit working, so I'll get those up later. Then you can look at what I have and if you have others, it would be great to post them.
     
  15. Karen

    Karen Member

    No problem KK! Take a break, eh? Thank you for all you do for us and Jonbenet.:)
     
  16. DeeDee

    DeeDee Member

    I don't think JR ever broke into the house through that window. Besides that, Patsy was known to keep spare key to the house in a statue on the lawn. She even named the statue "Francois", in keeping with her love of all things French.
     
  17. fr brown

    fr brown Member

    Wow! I never heard that. Where did you get that info?

    Can we see the statue in any of the pics of the house?
     
  18. fr brown

    fr brown Member

    I'm a security freak so I would be waiting up for the 24-hour glazier to show up no matter which window I broke.

    Ramsey says he broke that one because it was the least expensive to repair. Little things like that can eat into a millionaire's private plane fund.
     
  19. fr brown

    fr brown Member

    Ramsey says that they moved the key from the statue because anyone could've gotten at it. Seems like they would've repaired the window for the same reason.
     
  20. DeeDee

    DeeDee Member

    The info is buried deep in the hundreds of pages of depos. There are no pics of the statue that I am aware of.
     
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