The Bent Spoon and the Neck Abrasion

Discussion in 'Justice for JonBenet Discussion - Public Forum' started by sweetpea, Sep 4, 2006.

  1. sweetpea

    sweetpea Member

    Hello All,

    I hope you have had a wonderful Labor Day Weekend.

    I would like to discuss a possible connection between this image:


    in this thread:

    (Thank you so much Why Nut)

    and this autopsy picture (which I will only put the link for since it is graphic and everyone should have the option of either viewing it or not):

    The shape of the end of the handle of the spoon seems to match the odd "abrasion" on the left front of JonBenet's throat. In fact, the spoon handle is disturbingly close to the shape on her throat. I showed this comparison to my husband (whose father was the number one salesman of Oneida in the world in the 70's) and when he saw the picture of the spoon in the bowl he said - That spoon is bent! Well, I kind of looked it over and wondered if it was an optical illusion, because it sure looked bent, right at the point that the handle crosses the rim of the bowl.

    So I pulled the picture into my paint and drew a straight line from the midline of the end of the handle and down the handle and sure as shootin' - it's bent! (Marked picture attached.)

    I have started researching whether there might be some "social" article in which Patsy named the silverware pattern she had, so that I might get a manufacturer's photo of the spoon. Any help in this effort would be greatly appreciated.

    EDIT NOTE: I changed the title to "neck abrasion" since that is what it states in the autopsy report. I don't want to confuse the issue. Also replaced "bruise" in my post to "abrasion".

    Attached Files:

    Last edited: Sep 5, 2006
  2. RiverRat

    RiverRat FFJ Sr. Member Extraordinaire (Pictured at Lef

    Wow - it would be hard to argue against this possibility!
  3. cindysnow3

    cindysnow3 Member

    Hey Sweetpea, "My what good eyes ya have my dear" Lol :) It does look very odd to me I will do some searching. I'm not sure what brand of silverware Patsy had, but I know I buy "Onieda" and I'm not in the money by any means. I'll search and see what I can find out for ya.
  4. heymom

    heymom Member

    I have a husband that uses spoons to get ice cream out of the box, and every time, he bends the handles, if he uses the lighter-weight spoons. He can bend most of the silverware if he concentrates (edit - I didn't mean he was Kreskin! just that he has tremendous force and when he uses it, he is concentrating). The spoon may have been used to pry something loose, or perhaps even dig trenches in the garden (a kid's favorite activity). It may not mean anything to the case.

    Last edited: Sep 4, 2006
  5. sweetpea

    sweetpea Member

    Sorry, I didn't mean to imply I thought it was Oneida. I should have expounded. My husband said his dad would straighten silverware when they went out to eat when my husband was a just kid because his dad was in the business...that stuck with him. I think that's why it jumped out at him so quickly, because he had had that experience of his dad not being able to stand bent silverware.'s weird how our little lives affect us.
  6. cindysnow3

    cindysnow3 Member

    Oh, No need to apologize. I never thought you meant that was the kind you thought Patsy bought. I know it is a very popular brand of silverware. I just wonder what brand Patsy actually purchased is all. I hope also your Labor Day weekend has went well.
  7. Carol

    Carol Member

    That's really incredible, sweetpea. It certainly looks like the spoon could have made the mark on JonBenet's neck. Is this the spoon that Patsy said did not belong to the Ramseys?
  8. sue

    sue Member

    I have a bunch of bent spoons in my house.
    I think if would be very hard to cause a bruise on someone's neck in that area from a spoon.
    Also, if the spoon was pressed into something, I'd expect it to be bent up rather than down.
  9. The Punisher

    The Punisher Member

    Might be interesting to see this one play out.
  10. BluesStrat

    BluesStrat BANNED !!!!!

    When I look at that photo, I have to wonder if that spoon is really bent, or is it just an optical illusion created by the glare of the camera flash off the rounded surface of the bowl? You get the same effect if you put a spoon into a glass of water and look at it from the side.
  11. Watching You

    Watching You Superior Bee Admin

    I used to go to (not recommended for the squeamish) just to look at the necks of people who had been strangled so I could compare them with JB's neck. I saw the difference between what the RST likes to call scratch marks and petechia - the fingernail gouges were very prominent on the necks of the victims who were conscious when they were strangled, unlike the petechia marks on JB's neck.

    In some of those pictures I saw the very same large red mark under the skin as appears in the autopsy picture of JB's neck. I don't remember what it was called, but I remember those pictures.

    I went to the website today - they have changed it, and I can no longer find any strangulation pictures. Believe me, you don't want to go there.
  12. sweetpea

    sweetpea Member

    Yeah, I realize this. That's why I did the marked up version. It's not an optical illusion. The spoon is bent...maybe in two places even.
  13. I was thinking the same thing BluesStrat was. Maybe I just don't get exactly what the red lines are trying to show. Can someone give me a blow by blow description of that like I'm stupid? From where I sit it just seems to show that the spoon's handle is curved. I must be missing something here.
  14. sweetpea

    sweetpea Member

    uhhh...that the spoon is bent? I'm not sure what else to say. It's not curved; it's bent. The straight line represents a non-bent line, the lower line represents the new line where the spoon is bent. That's not a curve, it's an abrupt bend.

    That's all I can say. Unless you provide me a pic of a spoon that's intentionally made that way. And then I guess I'll say - go figure.
    Last edited: Sep 5, 2006
  15. sue

    sue Member

    I did not go to that site ever, but I think i saw some pictures people got from that site. I do remember those pictures and what appear to be the same marks as on the pictures of JB.
  16. BluesStrat

    BluesStrat BANNED !!!!!

    Sweetpea, you can't draw lines on an optical illusion and claim it proves it's not an optical illusion--it doesn't work that way.
    Curved surfaces like that bowl bend and reflect light differently than flat surfaces.
    Take a look at the photo below where the pencil appears offset and larger. You can draw as many lines as you want on that pencil and it's still an optical illusion:
  17. sweetpea

    sweetpea Member

    Excuse me, but that's two separate situations. And the point of drawing the lines was to see if the light reflection from the bowl rim was causing the spoon to look bent - if it had been because of the light reflection (and the spoon handle was straight), then when I drew the straight line down the spoon handle it would have shown that the handle was straight. But it isn't straight, and we're not looking at it through water, or a material interface. So the straw in the water has nothing to do with this situation.

    If you have some explanation for a "bent spoon look" in open air when it isn't being photographed through a bi-media interface, I'm all ears.
  18. BluesStrat

    BluesStrat BANNED !!!!!

    If the "light reflection from the bowl rim was causing the spoon to look bent" then that effect was already captured by the camera and drawing straight lines on an existing effect will prove nothing.

    I have that exact same Corelle bowl (minus the bottom flange) and I put a spoon in it to see if it would look bent with a light source coming from the same direction the camera flash would have been. From the right angle, not only does the spoon look bent at the rim of the bowl, but the stem of the spoon also looks twisted.

    Now if that Ramsey spoon already had a slight bend in it, it could possibly be the optical effect made it look that much more exagerated.
  19. Sideways Frog

    Sideways Frog Member

    That spoon certainly looks very similar to the shape of the mark on JB's neck.

    Would a similar shaped object not be needed to cause such a mark? What else could it possibly be?
  20. Texan

    Texan FFJ Senior Member


    I have seen a mark similar to that on a picture of another strangulation victim. Don't remember what thread but someone posted the picture. I can't figure out if it is caused from the skin being pinched up and rolled or possibly a knuckle causing it - it looks to me like on the other picture it happened about where the knot was made.
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