The Natalee Holloway Murder Case Aug.26, 2005

Discussion in 'Crimes, Trials & Missing Persons' started by Voyager, Aug 26, 2005.

  1. Elle

    Elle Member

    Thanks KK. Appreciate it. Will also keep watching. :)
  2. koldkase

    koldkase FFJ Senior Member

    Note: One named "source" this guy quotes is...Ta da!...Joran...who said "Natalie said Beth was a Hitler-like mom." We all heard that one. Somehow, I don't consider Joran a credible source without CORROBORATION IN THE FORM OF EVIDENCE.

    Some kind of BS about an "ORGINAL" poster Beth made before she went to Aruba asking...someone--Natalie? call her...ALLEGEDLY. But it's a COVER UP because Beth and Julia Renfro then made a KIDNAP poster in Aruba. Wow. That's soooooooo...NOT MUCH, IF true.

    Ah. Other names: "Julia Renfro KNOWS stuff." Was that the Aruban news reporter who fell out with Beth eventually? Sorry, I'll have to get out the old mag article on this unless someone else remembers.

    Miriam Ann Smith, Natalie's friend,"...KNOWS STUFF!" Also a "Manard". So many in the states know...allegedly...but they're not talking for some reason.

    The guy is asked to produce SOME DOCUMENT...and the guy says "YEAH, but I'm NOT GOING TO GIVE IT," then he reads from SOME PIECE OF PAPER HE'S HOLDING LIKE IT'S THE HOLY GRAIL, what he CLAIMS is an immigration document with info entered into a computer "when you get off the way to screw it up." The info, he SAYS: Beth's SS#, she was staying at the Holiday Inn, reason for being here--vacation, what time Beth got there--7:45. "NOT ELEVEN O'CLOCK! NOT ELEVEN O'CLOCK!" (Smoking gun!) Good god, I'm going to puke. Deja vu all over again.... :puke:
    Last edited: Jan 22, 2008
  3. koldkase

    koldkase FFJ Senior Member

    Out and out spinning for the POOR VAN DER SLOOTS, so far.

    HUGE smirk like the guy has revealed the Kennedy assassination conspiracy because he got a copy of a computer read out that proves BETH got to Aruba 4 hours before she said she did. Since we haven't seen that print out, just had this guy reading from a piece of's still NOT PROOF OF ANYTHING. Even if that's correct, what does it prove? Beth has given a different timeline FOR HER ARRIVAL. Maybe she has a simple explanation. It's absurd to consider this is some kind of EVIDENCE that Beth is in on a conspiracy to cover up that Natalie was PREGNANT from Jugs, hid herself from Beth, and then DIED partying with her NEW BUDDIES. This is really creepy.

    More: Local people know? "SO MANY PEOPLE KNOW, THIS PERSON KNOWS, THAT PERSON KNOWS" and "...they're so...we...Edwards over there...Minister this and that we told a year ago...shook their heads...blahblahblah...." [Damn! I knew I shoulda' ordered that "Illiterate Speaker Decoder Ring" from that cereal box last month!] "One of them that knows that Natalie was in prison right now that had went after the fact, there is other people [on it?] that knows from that area down there that she was alive weeks later, but it's like who's going to want to say anything?" Whew. I can't type as fast as this man talks. SPINNING 2000 words a minute--few of them connected to any complete thought.

    "Dolphie Richardson" (prosecutor? official?) is named by this couple, also "Minister Brieson's asst." (sp?), as having MET with them, and "...[important officials] were surprised how it was handled at the police dept." The couple will VOUCH for this minister's asst. and Richardson, etc. (hahahaha Nice switcheroo: who's vouching for YOU, Dry Mouth?) BELIEVE THIS GUY WHEN HE REVEALS NATALIE DIED PARTYING WITH HER BENEFACTORS, says he.

    The reporters are quite good, BTW. Asked why the people who had Natalie didn't bring Natalie's body in for the substantial reward and such, Dawg Wannabe said they were SCARED as she had OVERDOSED PARTYING with them and because of what happened to Joran. Back to trashing Beth as Hitler mom. Asked how these run-away Natalie benefactors hid the body, Faux Dawg NOW says anybody can do anything (oops--except JORAN, of course).

    And they're off on ANOTHER story about a total stranger being pulled out of a "store"? Who was CONNECTED TO A MURDER which was committed BECAUSE OF KNOWLEDGE THAT NATALIE WAS ALIVE? Sorry, BULLCHIT.

    I am sorry, but let's pause: These generous protectors of Natalie on the run, prison TYPES with STREET NAMES, were so KIND as to help NATALIE escape her NAZI MOM BETH AND MOLESTER JUGS, and even THREW IN ENOUGH DRUGS TO KILL PREGNANT PARTY ANIMAL NATALIE, THEY WERE SO GENEROUS. But then they didn't even bother to simply hire a lawyer to negotiate for them and make a DEAL for the body and collect the reward, WITH IMPUNITY? Giving Natalie's parents some peace, getting the "suspects" and Aruba off the hook? And NOT ONE PERSON who happened to KNOW ANY of this had happened to Natalie, maybe not involved but having heard the talk about it or seen Natalie, etc., wants to collect that HUGE REWARD by turning in the info? I mean...NO CRIME WAS COMMITTED, according to these clowns. The autopsy would confirm that.

    And...if this brain trust is SOOOOOOOO brilliant, just why does he not QUESTION the ALLEGED story HE IS CLAIMING HE HAS FOUND OUT (but wasn't THERE, I'm guessing) that NATALIE DIED PARTYING BY ACCIDENT, if she was in fact WITH CRIMINAL TYPES WITH STREET NAMES WHO MURDERED SOMEONE ELSE BRUTALLY to cover up this entire ACCIDENT?

    HAHAHAHAHAHA I swear, I AM SORRY, but this is about as credible as Nancy Krebs.

    But I haven't finished yet...maybe I'm ALL WRONG.... Still watching.... :eye:
    Last edited: Jan 22, 2008
  4. koldkase

    koldkase FFJ Senior Member

    Who the heck is "Edward Cruise...right there"? Poor old Edward keeps getting referred to, so I hope he's prepared. Doppleganger Dawg says Edward WITNESSED..."it"...regarding the MURDER because SOMEONE KNEW TOO MUCH. They won't give any VICTIM NAME, though. That's to do with the "girl" they pulled out of "the store"?

    And Beth is also being blamed...for their DIVULGING THIS NOW...BECAUSE SHE ASKED THEM TO COME? They make no sense whatsoever.

    Oh, and "PROVE US WRONG".

    It's NOT ABOUT MONEY: they're doing this because they are so altruistic, putting their business on hold, spending their own money. Their business is international and everything...all the magazines...? This guy couldn't complete a thought if his earrings depended upon it.

    They'll give their info to the FBI. hehehe

    Mics go down and it's hard to hear them now.

    This is all they'll give now, until people start diving in. Just listen to them. "THIS IS NOT HEARSAY." This is what BETH told them PERSONALLY. [But hearsay is all WE, the audience, have seen so far. Not too quick on the uptake, is he?]

    They do hospice, "That's what we do." And now they're psychologists, lecturing on how people become ill from knowing stuff and not telling. (A little bit about their "methods" of persuasion in public speaking later.)


    (Evil Beth! See how nice we are?) They CLAIM they're standing up for the poor Van der Sloots and Aruba. Beth's best friends have "SOLD HER OUT", telling Beth's secrets to...them? Hm. Now...why would these best friends do that? Maybe we'll learn...?

    Now the guy is doing an IMAGINED dialog between Beth and Natalie, an argument allegedly about Natalie refusing to come home, and Beth incensed, threatening to drag Natalie back by the hair. As far as I can tell, THIS isn't what BETH told this couple, but what their FRIENDS SOLD HER OUT by TELLING THIS COUPLE--"It was told to us." That WOULD be HEARSAY. Natalie has run away before in the states, according to this guy. And Beth is the witch who is knowingly using the Van der Sloots to keep the suspicion off of...herself...for some reason.... Oh, yeah, to keep the family "incest secrets".

    Well, now we know who has been spreading the malicious gossip about Beth for so long.

    Now they're advertising their business again: "We've worked with [this tv show and that one--general name dropping]."

    Back to Beth's arrival time being a lie, got there on friend's private jet. Beth couldn't have seen the lights of Aruba at 7:45 pm there. Beth's "BEST FRIENDS" have told this couple SO MUCH. Poor Beth. If that's true, I'd be checking my "friends" list.

    Oh my god. Now they're going to tell the "WE SAVED THE GIRL IN THE STORE" STORY. A year ago, "...WE SAVED A GIRL FROM SUICIDE, LITERALLY." The "girl" had a little boy, they throw in. Cue violins, please: It was because the "girl's" friend had been BRUTALLY...BRUTALLY...murdered...because of "this". "Edward" witnessed this girl's suicide attempt, they say...though Edward ain't even on camera and haven't heard a peep from him. Now they're BEST FRIENDS with this "girl", and they QUOTE HER as saying "You saved my life." [Okay, it doesn't GET more self-congratulatory than this. Maybe they should wear t-shirts saying "I'M GREAT, BUT I'M HUMBLE ABOUT IT."]

    So...if they can stop patting themselves on the back, maybe I'll get to the actual story of what happened.

    Okay, that's clear as mud. Now they're PSYCHIC? They apparently CALLED EDWARD and told him THIS IS WHAT'S GOING TO HAPPEN [when they got to the store they pulled the "girl" out of]...AND IT DID! They didn't KNOW the "girl", but they gave Edward the "girl's" name; the woman with Deputy Dogma at this press conference went into the store, grabbed the "girl" and "told her" everything that had happened [to Natalie? to the BRUTALLY MURDERED friend of the "girl's"?]. The girl then BOOM, collapsed!

    Then, if I'm able to decipher this guy's SHORTHAND for facts, seems Edward had been told by Captain Sunglasses' female partner everything the "girl" was going to say, and she said it! Bringing Edward to tears. And now we learn who EDWARD IS...sort of. Edward then SET UP this news conference because "he knows what we say is true"!

    Uh...question! [I"m so irritating like that.] WHERE'S THE PART ABOUT THE SUICIDE ATTEMPT YOU SAVED THIS GIRL FROM WHEN YOU "PULLED" HER OUT OF THE STORE? Cap'n Sunglasses says he brings PRESENTS to this GOOD FRIEND now and her son. Hellloooo? What STORY? HOW DID YOU KNOW IT BEFORE THE "GIRL" TOLD IT? PSYCHIC?

    Asked where Natalie was on the island while people were looking for her (I think), the guy says other end. No, he won't NAME NAMES. (How did I KNOW that was coming?) Says he and blondie are "still here", but last time on the island they were using fake names, moved around from hotel to hotel, blahblahblah. Just get this out! It's a SIMPLE SIMPLE SIMPLE SIMPLE STORY! It started AT THE HOME. It's all BETH'S AND THE MOLESTING STEP-FATHER'S FAULT!

    (Dear god, please deliver us from DUMBAZZ DO-GOODERS WITH THEIR OWN AGENDAS.)

    Well, that's all folks. No evidence. No names that mean anything. No one else corroborating nothing. Wild tales. IMPROBABLE TALES. UNSUPPORTED TALES.

    In a NEWS conference called to GET OUT THE TRUTH. But NOTHING to back up their WILD STORIES.

    Am I the only one who is finding this so familiar, I can tell you right now what this is all about? PUBLICITY. SPIN. HIDDEN AGENDAS.

    I don't believe anything this creepy couple says. Some may be true, but if they're telling the truth, why is that guy talking ninety miles an hour, about as coherent as Charles Manson on speed? He's trying to draw credibility from the audience by telling the people to whom HE'S TELLING THIS BS STORY that "THEY" ARE RIGHT, IT'S TRUE?! What? "THEY" HAVEN'T SAID ANYTHING, YOU'RE THE ONE DOING ALL THE TALKING, BOZO! One person allegedly shook his/her head OFF CAMERA at something the guy doing ALL the talking said, AND THAT TURNED INTO "YOU ARE RIGHT! YOU KNOW!"

    It's a common con, people. They're not even good at it. Look at them--cheap trash peddling nothing but innuendoes, wild tales told in convoluted fashion no one can follow much, no real details anyone can check, no actual evidence, and corroboration non-existent. Personal testimony to...ALLEGED GOSSIP. It just won't wash.

    Think: If Beth really knew these people, why would she trust them, since they ADMIT they bonded with the VAN DER SLOOTS in '05, believing Joran to be innocent? Why would BETH have CONFIDED in FRIENDS AND ALLIES OF THE SLOOTS? Why would Beth's BEST FRIENDS have confided in VAN DER SLOOT SUPPORTERS? Natalie disappeared not long before that "bonding" with the Van der Sloots. So did these people LIE to Beth to get her confidence? How long? If so, THEY SET BETH UP, and knew they were doing so ALL THIS TIME. That's underhanded and it's predatory in a HIGH PROFILE MISSING PERSON CASE. PURE CON artist, preying on a DEVASTATED FAMILY. Beth lost her daughter: NOW these sycophants are calling a press conference and directly BLAMING BETH FOR IT ALL, ADDING THE WORST KIND OF HATEFUL GOSSIP OF INCEST.

    Is ANY of it true? Not until someone comes forward to corroborate, someone CREDIBLE and with EVIDENCE. You know--a pregnancy test result? A body location? Tapes or pictures? SOMETHING?

    I will say the reporters were right on it, though. I don't think this duo fooled them at all.

    So sorry to disagree, Chero and anyone who thinks there's something to this: think Pete Peterson and the "McReynolds did it" news conference so long ago. Think Michael Tracey and Lou Smit. NANCY KREBS SHILLS? Pure scam for personal gain, dressed up in fake claims of humanitarian concern.

    I hope Beth calls them on all of it. I imagine she's got an appt. with Lin Wood very soon.
    Last edited: Jan 22, 2008
  5. koldkase

    koldkase FFJ Senior Member

    Okay, I went back and reworked some of the earlier observations I made while watching this video. It was hard to figure out where these people were going, so after hearing it all, I could clarify a few points they were trying to make...if that is possible. :floor:

    I don't mean to be such a smart alec....

    Okay, yes I do. Well, what do you expect? PYRATE! :pirate:
  6. Cherokee

    Cherokee FFJ Senior Member

    I don't believe Dan was saying that person was murdered because they knew Natalie was alive, but that they knew too much about who was involved in hiding her and the drugs, etc. that were involved in her death. I got the impression they were supposedly murdered sometime AFTER Natalie's death. Maybe they threatened to go to the police and tell everything they knew.

    I know you disagree with what Dan and Kelly said, KK, but at least let me comment on a few things.

    Dan Young and Kelly Castillo believe what they were saying. Whether what they are saying is TRUE or not, only documented evidence will tell. But they were not making up a story for the camera.

    Yes, Dan seems full of himself and would be the guy bragging about something at a family barbeque that no one could stand, but what he said (and the documented evidence he has) makes sense and fits the facts as we know them. It would be wise for his story (and documents) to be checked out by LE.

    Dan and Kelly have worked on the case since 2005 and have talked to a lot of people. They were initially asked to help by Beth Twitty herself, and have spent their own money. They are not psychics (they didn't claim to be), but hospice workers. They believe they have found the answer to what happened to Natalie. Why can't their story be analyzed and investigated?

    Sure, Dan and Kelly may want a book deal. Yes, he repeats himself constantly and is not the best spokesman to explain what he knows. (He kind of started in the middle, then jumped back and forth as questions were asked.) But Dan has the conviction of a man who has done his research. He never stumbled on the facts of his story, and he talked fast enough to show he was using true stream-of-consciousness-thought instead of couching his words in "I think" or "I believe" or "umm, ahh, I don't remember." He may have hestitated to reveal all, but what he did reveal was the truth as far as he knows it.

    Dan did show a copy of Beth's flight record to the reporters. You could see the reporters looking at it, and they didn't deny it's contents. Unfortunately, by the time the camera person thought to train the lens on the paper instead of Dan's face, he was already folding it back up, but he has a valid question. Why did Beth say she arrived at 11 p.m. or so (and looked down on the lights of Aruba) when she arrived about 7:30 p.m. and the sun was shining? Why did she lie about the four hour difference? What happened in those four hours that made her want to change her timeline?

    It is true there was another, and different, missing poster for Natalie in the beginning. People at other forums have commented that they saw a copy of the original poster Dan mentions. Once again, he has a valid question. Why did Beth put a copy of the second poster in her book and claim it was the original poster? The original poster said nothing about kidnapping. It only gave a phone number to call.

    Here's a synopsis of what Dan and Kelly said:

    1. Natalie did not get along with her mother. (A lot of teenage girls don't. That's not a stretch to believe.)

    2. Natalie had run away from home before. (Allegedly, some of Natalie's best friends told Dan and Kelly that information.)

    3. Natalie was being sexually abused by Jug Twitty. (That is an unsourced rumor alledgedly made by friends of Natalie/Beth, and may be true or false.)

    4. Natalie went to Aruba on her senior trip, and didn't plan to come back to the States. She partied (drank and used drugs) on the last night of the trip, and left a bar with Joran Van Der Sloot and the Kalpoe brothers. Allegedly, she went to a beach with the brothers where sexual activity may or may not have taken place. Supposedly, Natalie passed out, and the three boys left her there. (This is plausible and fits what we know of the activities of the three boys that night. They may have raped her after she was passed out, or thought she'd died of a drug overdose, and were afraid to go to police or tell the truth of what happened.)

    5. Natalie was either found passed out on the beach by someone else, or she woke up and found them, then continued to drink and use drugs. After the search for her began, Natalie begged them to hide her to keep from going back to the States.

    6. After a week or two of being hidden and passed around, Natalie died of a drug overdose. Those who had been hiding her were scared her death would be blamed on them. The people who had promised to hide her hadn't realized there would be an international manhunt for Natalie. She was just a blonde party girl to them, but the publicity made everyone nervous, especially with all the sex and drugs involved. (This scenario makes sense. A bunch of island party people tell Natalie they'll help her stay there, but then things get out of hand, and they try to hide their involvement.)

    7. Beth was flown to Aruba on a private jet and while in flight, she talked to Natalie on her cell phone and told her to come home. Natalie refused. (Dan mentions the pilot of that plane was never questioned, which seemed like a hint that the pilot may have been the source of that information.)

    8. Beth arrived in Aruba at 7 p.m., not 11 p.m. Dan believes Beth was still trying to get Natalie to come home, and that was why the first posters were not about kidnapping, but just "call this number." (Dan apparently has documentation to back up his claim of Beth's earlier arrival. What was Beth doing in those four hours? Was she talking to Natalie then?)

    9. Dan and Kelly say someone close to Natalie told them she was pregnant and that Jug Twitty was the father. (Once again, this is an unsourced rumor and may be true or false.)

    10. There was a person (a female) whom Dan and Kelly found out about in their investigations on Aruba. Apparently, someone gave them the name of this person in connection with what happened to Natalie. Dan and Kelly say they "pulled" this person "out of a store" (I don't know if they worked there or were just shopping) and talked to them. Dan said they were suicidal because someone they loved had been murdered (a boyfriend perhaps?). The reason for this murder was that they knew too much about what really happened to Natalie, and there were people who didn't want that information known. (This scenario is also possible if drugs and/or or a drug deal was involved in Natalie's death.)

    Once again, I am not saying I believe everything that Dan and Kelly said, or that this is the final word on what happened to Natalie, but there is not ONE THING they did say that contradicts the known evidence, and much of it makes perfect sense.

    I have never had a dog in this fight. I have never had preconceived notions about anyone involved in this case. I don't have a vested interest in seeing Beth villified or made a saint, or seeing Joran and the Kalpoes exonerated or crucified.

    I'm just interested in the truth. And even if you don't like the messengers (Dan & Kelly), please don't dismiss their message until their story is checked out and the facts are known.
    Last edited: Jan 22, 2008
  7. RiverRat

    RiverRat FFJ Sr. Member Extraordinaire (Pictured at Lef

    All I can think of at this point is that if the people reporting this info are lying through their yeah - they are mame-bots. I haven't seen anything about this other than a forum here and there. There are two main forums, the very anti-Beth one is found here:

    And the Beth Supporters can be found here:

  8. Cherokee

    Cherokee FFJ Senior Member

    Here's a copy of Beth's arrival manifest. It lists the time of her arrival as 7:46 p.m. (19:46). Dan said Beth listed her reason for visiting Aruba as "vacation." If you look at the bottom left of the pic, you can see a word that looks like the last of the word "vacation" but the first part is cut off.

    Attached Files:

  9. koldkase

    koldkase FFJ Senior Member

    Well, Cherokee, I couldn't disagree with you more.

    These two people, regardless of my unartful panning of them, have ONE PIECE OF PAPER from which they READ for "evidence", and we did not see it. It proves...that Beth may have ONE timeline problem with her retelling of the story of her arrival in Aruba? Not even that. In the context given, one can speculate until hell freezes over, but it proves NOTHING but that THIS COUPLE CLAIM there is a "deceitful" discrepancy in the timeline for some reason. I can think of about a dozen innocent reasons off the top of my head. Is the "document" you posted a LEGALLY accepted DOCUMENT OF EVIDENCE? How do you know it wasn't completely fabricated? Who is the source? How did it get online, and who is vouching that it came through a chain of evidence from that airport? See my point?

    All that you wrote that this couple are saying is, without exception other than the alleged "immigration document", NOT corroborated, NOT supported by any physical evidence WE HAVE SEEN, NOT witnessed by anyone who is saying so but them, and is clearly being told by two people who admit without any qualms they are dear friends and supporters of the Van der Sloots, but that they also managed to get Beth's confidences to turn around and stab her with where it hurts--in the heart belonging to her missing daughter. How can that be coming from honest people who have no agenda but "the truth"? I don't see it.

    No, I don't believe their body language is as innocent as you do, but I guess that's a difference of opinion. Their stories are all over the place, have huge gaps, the man has dry mouth, and the fast talking looks to me like a nervous response. I see them trying to fly a story they know won't fly without EVIDENCE, so tap dance as fast as you can. I interpret that as they're not being HONEST about a lot of it, and they KNOW it. They edit themselves quite deliberately, holding back what is critical. If they had evidence to prove it, why wouldn't they tell it when it is THEY who are making such accusations PUBLICLY? If they don't want to give up names and evidence to the public, then take it to LE and let THEM go with it. Instead, they're rather gleefully trashing Beth and Jug and NATALIE as fast as they can talk and do the sidestep, but no, don't ask for proof?

    As I expressed, their attempts to manipulate the media were plain to me, and the way they did it was old revival preacher stuff: I'm telling you nodded your head...YOU AGREE WITH ME AND YOU KNOW THE RIGHTEOUS TRUTH! Amen!

    Their clothes, their eyewear, their all says something. They don't have money, but they are flying in and out of Aruba for years...why?

    And just what kind of hospice business are they in that they are in international demand for...missing persons cases? I'm lost on that one.

    If you take them at face value and think what they have done is fine because the rest of the world will now get out there and get to the truth, I hope you're right.

    I just doubt it. In the bones of my body, I doubt it has done anything but stirred up the Beth haters for all time. If this couple had more than innuendoes and gossip, they'd have done a lot more about this than call a press conference now. The guy was over the moon about having Beth on AUDIO TAPE saying SHE WANTS TO FIND NATALIE'S BODY, she doesn't care who was last with her. This is solid evidence that...the guy talked to Beth about Natalie and Beth wants her daughter's body. Yet the guy seems to think he's got Beth with that one! That's an Evening2 moment if I ever saw one.

    I guess my knee jerk reaction has a lot to do with arguing against this kind of behavior for so many years with the Krebbies. I just don't think it's right to make such accusations, say such vile things about grieving parents at an arranged press conference, without more than "So and so told me," "Here's a time discrepancy on a flight," and "PROVE US WRONG." That's just wrong, to me. If they can't support it with EVIDENCE, just SPECULATION and ASSUMPTION, then they are no different than mame to me.

    Okay, I only wrote so much on this because nobody was saying much and I wanted to break it down, as the general responses sounded like most people were confused--I'm not alone in that, at least. I'll say this and then I'm done, as it's only my opinion and I have no way of knowing what any of these people are after: I don't know Beth nor any of the other people, and Beth's liason with John Ramsey didn't put me in a mind to think more of her judgment. But if what this couple are saying is WRONG and they never cough up anything credible to back up their horrible allegations of incest resulting in pregnancy, not to mention claiming that Beth knew Natalie was alive after Beth got to Aruba that evening but deliberately ruined three young men's reputations and let them languish in jail for months, then how do these people take BACK the suspicions that will now follow Beth and Jug for the rest of their lives? Maybe the Whites can help them with that.

    If they DO ever provide something besides gossip and speculation, I'll be shocked, but I will look at any actual evidence with the same scrutiny for Beth and Jug.
    Last edited: Jan 23, 2008
  10. Elle

    Elle Member

    I must admit, this video of Dan Young and Kelly Castillo made me sit up and pay attention. I haven't followed this case as I stated, but the name "Natalee Holloway" rung a bell. I must have read something about it on the board. I don't really have the time to get involved in all the new cases that appear on the FFJ board, but I do skim and scan a lot of them to keep updated. The JonBenét case is really the only case I became seriously involved with on the boards in 2001.

    I feel sorry this young 18 year old was killed, and was involved in a high lifestyle of drugs or alcohol (?). What a waste of a young life.

    I'm sure the top TV newscasters will be interested in this video and want to know more.

    KK and Cherokee. You're both putting up a good argument here, and only those who have studied the case very closely will be able to agree or disagree; meanwhile I shall look on with interest to what you both have to say.
  11. koldkase

    koldkase FFJ Senior Member

    Elle, I have never seen any proof that Natalie was "involved" in a party lifestyle any more or less than any other teen on her way to college. All I've actually seen verified is that Natalie was drinking the night she disappeared from the bar with the 3 young men in Aruba. You may be thinking of all the speculation that Natalie died from a drug overdose. Nobody knows what she died of, since her body has never been found.

    I've done some looking around, and here is a link to a thread on a forum about Natalie's case. The thread is about this couple on this tape, Daniel and Kelly--and it seems from what I'm reading this couple DOES claim to be...PSYCHIC! Now how did I know that? I MUST BE PSYCHIC!! :bateye:

    I can barely follow this thread, because I don't know the "players" outside of the main ones we've all heard about. But it seems the couple Daniel and Kelly might be in legal trouble, IF what someone named "Glenda" posts at the forum is true: the "Julia" in question--Renfro?--is said to be going after Daniel and Kelly for slander/whatever. I haven't read the whole thread, so please, if anyone else can figure this out and decipher it for us, I'll refrain from getting my crystal ball out, so let 'er rip! :cb:
  12. koldkase

    koldkase FFJ Senior Member

    On page one of that link, here is "Glenda's" rendition of what this couple, Daniel and Kelly, told Aruban authorities a year ago, I guess she's saying:

    I don't know any of these "street names" or people, so it's like jumping in the middle of a book and trying to keep up.
  13. Elle

    Elle Member

    What a shame no one else stepped forward that night to prevent Natalie from leaving with these three young men from Aruba. Seems that none of her close friends were around; or were they used to seeing Natalie taking off like this on a regular basis and just never bothered(?). Yes, I have to admit "party girl" came into my mind when I watched and heard the video.

    Dan Young seemed so confident that Beth Holloway was lying. They were both very non chalant at speaking out.

    It would be hard for me to follow the posts not knowing enough about it, but they will fill me in as to, "what others are thinking about Dan Young and Kelly Castillo."

    I note that Natalie's name is being spelled differently in these posts (?).

    I wonder if the "psychic" term was used the way people often say "You must be psychic" because you have stated something which came true, but you're not necessarily a real Psychic (?).

    Thanks for the information KK.

    So, this theory according to Glenda is not "new?" How on earth are they ever going to sort this out?
  14. Cherokee

    Cherokee FFJ Senior Member

    I never said that. I never said these were honest people who have no agenda but "the truth."

    I said they believe what they're saying. I also said that doesn't make it true, but THEY believe it's true. There is a difference. I was only making that observation as a side point to their story. It has no bearing on whether their claims are valid or not. My original point was that THEY believe they are valid and are not just throwing out lies, hoping something sticks. Of course, Dan and Kelly could be delusional and their story a complete crock. I don't deny that at all.

    My point was that they were not just making up a story for the cameras like the Ramseys. Perhaps Dan's and Kelly's story is full of holes and is should be blasted, and they should be crucified. But that is also my point. Either way, their story needs to be investigated because that's the only way the rumors and innuendos will stop.

    You brought up the White's, and even though the crime stories are different, there is a similarity in that just as NK's story was investigated and SHE was discredited, that is what should happen to Dan and Kelly. If they are crackpots, then the truth will be revealed.

    But what if Dan and Kelly are the equivalent of someone finally speaking about what happened in the Ramsey case, but the IDIs and RST immediately jump on them and declare everything they say to be false? What if someone years from now (such as a former friend of the Ramseys) tells everything they know about what happened only to have the Ram-sympathizers slam them down because they're afraid of hearing the truth?

    Once again, I have never said I believe everything Dan and Kelly said. In fact, I believe the opposite. I'm fairly sure there are parts of their theory they've gotten wrong, but what about parts of it that are right? What about the facts that can be corroborated, or a person they know who can finally lead us to know what REALLY happened to Natalee? If even only 25% of what they said is true, perhaps that 25% can be followed as investigative clues that lead to the truth?

    For instance, if their document is legit, and Beth did arrive at 7:46 p.m. instead of after 11:00 p.m., that was before Natalee's flight left for the US. As I understand it, that would prove Beth DID know Natalee had no intentions of coming home, because even though Natalee hadn't come back to the hotel from the night before, it's possible Natalee would have shown up at the airport for her flight.

    That is just one of the points that needs to be investigated. Surely, it would be easy for LE to corroborate Beth's timeline or say it was false. What does it hurt for LE to investigate and give us the answer? If Beth DID arrive in Aruba after 11:00 p.m, then Dan's and Kelly's theory falls apart, and they are discredited. If Beth arrived at 7:46 p.m., then she needs to explain why gave a different time in her book, and LE needs to investigate HER story.
  15. Cherokee

    Cherokee FFJ Senior Member

    My dear Elle, I hope you know I am not trying to "put up a good argument" against Natalee or Beth or anyone in the Holloway/Twitty family.

    I am not trying to take sides, nor will I defend Dan and Kelly because I do not know if they are worthy of being defended. I merely think their story should be investigated more thoroughly so that it can either be corroborated and the truth known, OR it can be dismissed as vicious lies while Dan and Kelly are rightfully excoriated and villified, and sued by Beth and Jug for every penny they've got!
  16. RiverRat

    RiverRat FFJ Sr. Member Extraordinaire (Pictured at Lef

    This is explosive either way! If true....OMG......if not true.....OMG...... :curses:

    These accusations are right up there with the Nancy Krebs saga, so I will unforunately have to follow along to see where this one leads. :curses:
  17. koldkase

    koldkase FFJ Senior Member

    Hold on there, little doggie. I am not recommending the death penalty by crucifixion. A walk on the plank, maybe.... :pirate:

    Turns out, from what I read last night at that "fugitives unleashed" forum, these people did turn in their "info" to the authorities a year ago, and it was investigated. Obviously, nothing came of it, at least not publicly. As best as I can tell, there is someone--this couple?--who put a newsletter online for a long time with the allegations in it. That's where the "story" is written in full of Julia Renfro having Natalie at her house alive, and all the while Julia and Beth were putting up fliers and looking for Natalie. The part about Julia partying with Natalie and some guys named Pitbull and such, during which Natalie overdosed and died, is in that newsletter. The murder of Pitbull--related to the "girl in the store" story--is also in that online piece.

    At least, that's what I think I read on that thread and another there. Like I said, it's very hard to jump into the middle and catch up. Plus, I am not really interested in spending the next ten years on another mystery that will never be solved. I spent myself on the JB case, and seem still to be arguing over just such "sincere" fabrications for some REASON I cannot fathom.

    I think it's all Rat's fault. :rolleyes:
  18. Cherokee

    Cherokee FFJ Senior Member

    I'll drink to that. :toast:
  19. RiverRat

    RiverRat FFJ Sr. Member Extraordinaire (Pictured at Lef

    It always is.

    Now - back to me twisting those arms around your backs, Maties! :bigstick:
  20. Elle

    Elle Member

    Of course, I know that, Cherokee. You both had your own versions of whatyou thought was happening. Dan and Kelly just sounded so convincing to me and many others from what I gathered. I agree with you, their story should be investigated more thoroughly, for sure.
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