The Ramsey's own words

No doubt they were, but John could have stopped it all in one moment if he'd put his foot down. "Sorry, Patsy, but you aren't going to turn my little girl into a tiny whore!" But that wouldn't have been John Ramsey, now, would it???

I believe, and evidence seems to show, that JonBenet had been molested prior to the night she died. I don't know for sure that John did it. Patsy was off-balance enough that she might have done such a thing, and Burke is an unknown.

 

I think Patsy meant, "Oh, God, we forgot to put her crown on her! She went to the morgue without her crown!"

 

Can you imagine the pressure JonBenet was under, with those three STEEL MAGNOLIAS standing over her every detail like she was QUEEN-IN-TRAINING?

What a totally creepy family the Paughs were. True SOUTHERN GOTHIC.

 

bahaaaaa Heymom, you bad girl you...that was funny. :rolling:

 

Sometimes I get it right! Glad you got a laugh out of it.

 

I know about Patsy's mental state and such.....and it is truly peculiar. But I do believe John Ramsey's hand is the one that murdered this child.
I often think about his older daughter. Beth, was it? Now I know that things happen and are truly accidents.
but I just think that he had his hand in on the murder, and Patsy did play along. She even "sacrificed her" after all of it came to a head.
JMO.
John is not innocent, knows much....and I do believe Burke has something within him that could help this case. Even if slight.
What is the secret?

 

I wonder why she mentioned thinking the ironing board was up. Where was the iron and could an iron have cracked her skull?

 

JC,

I think JonBenét Ramsey was killed long before 5:30 am (26 Dec. 1996) and not in the laundry. Patsy had to weave confusion and did a good job of it.

 

Does the word 'potty' here refer to the toilet bowl?

 

Yes. She was being shown a photo of a bathroom where the toilet had been used and not flushed after. (it isn't specified whose bathroom it is, but it is assumed it was JBR's bathroom.) "Going potty" would mean the same as using the toilet.

 

Yeah. Someone used the toilet and did not flush... (GASP!) Kids are bad about that. I wonder why they would have shown her a picture of a toilet with poo in it though? (It could have been urine, but that would have been hard to tell in a photo, my guess would be that someone went "stinky" and did not flush...that is gross).

 

This is a great article written about this case back in the fall of '97 by Vanity Fair reporter Ann Bardach. If anyone missed it, or if some want to read it again in retrospect, like me, it's full of gems I long ago forgot.

http://www.bardachreports.com/articles/v_19971000.html

If anyone is interested in an indepth discussion and wants to start a new thread, feel free. There's a lot to chew on, knowing what we now know. It's amazing how much Bardach got right, as well. She's a brilliant reporter.

 

Thanks for posting that link. I hadn't seen it before; though I had seen most of the info before in other places. Yes, she did get a lot right. I assume that the "red pageant nightie" is really the pink Barbie nightgown, right?

 

Yes, DeeDee, that's the Barbie nightgown we now know was there.

Bardach got some things a bit off, obviously. But remember this was in '97 when most of us knew none of this before this article. We later learned that Thomas was one of Bardach's sources, and we don't know who the others were. Seems like I remember that she talked to Hunter...maybe I'm wrong about that, but Hunter was talking with tab reporter Shapiro, and Schiller was given access to the case files sometime in the first couple of years, as well, which is how he got so much right in HIS book.

What I found fascinating on this reread was the info on the Paughs and AG, etc. When I first read this, like I said, I knew very little about the case, as we only got the major news outlet reports in Georgia. Like you, I remembered most of the info but couldn't have sourced it to this article if asked.

What I didn't remember was some of the pageant stuff contributed by Pam, not in the context of what she said. Boy, she was HOT ONTO the publicity and attention, wasn't she? SHE was at EVERY PAGEANT. They'd have been NEGLIGENT, as experienced pageant queens, if they HADN'T trained JonBenet so hard. And I didn't remember at ALL that Nedra was part of the Miss America Pageant operations. That explains so much to me.

But the nanny who said JonBenet wasn't whole hog about the pageants--which one was that? Do we know now? I remember several nannies brought up in this saga through the years, but don't remember if this one was ever sourced. She'd have to have been in Colorado, right?

And the part about JonBenet being unruly: that fits with John's statement on LKL for the 10th anniversary of the murder, when asked if he ever thought about what JonBenet would have been like now if she'd lived. John said no more than "She was a handful." That shocked me. I expected him to speak about her, even if it was to say she was a SPARKPLUG and how he cherished her TALENT MEDAL she gave him. Nothing but a criticism? With Burke looking on.

Well, like I said, this might need a thread of its own if others want to discuss it. I think it might be a good time to look at it again.

 

I may have said this before, but maybe JR thought JBR was a "handful" because she didn't want HIS hands on her body...
I thought JR said JBR "would have been a handful." Did I mis-remember the quote?

 

Thanks, KoldKase,

for bringing that Vanity Fair article back. After rereading, it refreshed my poor old memory. So much time and so many different stories have filtered down through the media. However there were two things that struck me after this rereading. One was near the beginning of the article when it talked about the law firm of Haddon et al being the Ramsey atty of record. I'm terrible with names but one of the attys had recently represented a person for murder and his defense was "the intruder" theory. How very interesting eh! I wonder if this is where the first thought came from of an intruder and not from good ol Smitty. The Haddon law firm was ther first and Loosemit came in after several weeks. Correct?

And the second thing that was an eye opener was the description of Nedra by several folks. That she was a tiny "spitfire". Somehow that description got lost on me over the years. I knew she was the driving force for the pagents but more than that I'm surprised. She even defied her husband about where they would live or rather where she would live!

So again thinks for bring that up for us to read!

Oh and this just popped into my mind. It was a new thing that I didn't know until this reading that after JBR's body was found and brought upstairs then moved to be near the Christmas tree by Arndt the assembled group circled the body and recited the Lord's Prayer. That was totaly new for me. I had not heard or read that previously.

 

The Lord's Prayer circle was new to me too, though I did know that it was Arndt who moved JBR under the Christmas Tree; she said it was because where JR had placed her was a high-traffic area (a hallway). JR handling the body and carrying her upstairs was a fatal flaw, from the aspect of preserving the crime scene, but Arndt should have known better. In PMPT (the movie), Arndt is shown gingerly covering the body with a blanket- she says in her depositions that it was JR who covered the body, doing so while he asked to do it; LA didn't have time to stop him. PMPT isn't gospel, by any means, so we don't know which is accurate.

From the moment JBR was brought upstairs, Arndt knew it was a murder, and NOT a kidnapping. She should have gotten control of that house and the people in it at that point, ordering the friends and victims' advocates out, even the minister. At that point the crime scene should have consisted of Detective Arndt, the THREE surviving Rs, and the body of JBR- and it should have remained that way until her back-up arrived and took them ALL for questioning (separately).

 

From Patsy's 1997 interview:

Whoa, how Patsy is stumbling and fumbling along here! "I can't remember even trying to remember that, um when I got back, uh ...."
Reading that makes me cringe. She is VERY nervous.

It would have been easy to ask the housekeeper LHP if she could confirm what Patsy said. Does anyone know whether LHP has been questioned about this?

jmo

 

I don't remember when exactly, but I think she said something along the lines of "I never cleaned up any glass with her."

 

Can you believe they got away with this rashomon? If this really had happened, most people with any brains in their head at all, normally lift up broken glass immediately after it falls. Now, think if you will, John Ramsey is in his undershorts here, because he removed his good pants before he slipped into this window well. Good grief! As if John Ramsey needed to worry about sending a pair of pants to the cleaners.

How many people here believe John Ramsey removed his pants that day? Anyway, assuming he did, did he remove his shoes first, then take off his pants, then put his shoes back on again because he might land on broken glass from the broken window? Then he would have to put on another pair of pants, removing his shoes again to put the new pants on, and then put his shoes back on again to go back into the garden to retrieve his expensive pants?

Or, did he tiptoe throught the tulips and glass and go upstairs and find another pair of pants and shoes, and then go out into the garden?

What a fiasco? With the end results being, he got away with it! Amazing.