The Redressing(?) of JonBenet

There has been some debate as to whether or not JonBenet was redressed (i.e. changed into new clothes or simply had the long johns and underwear pulled back up to her waist) after she was killed. Based on this one autopsy photo, there are white lines on her back which, to me, indicate that the killer(s) simply didn't just stick their hands down the front of her pants. So, to take this further, let's look once again at the DNA results screen cap which was made thanks to Why_Nut. (This is from Margoo's post about the Barbie nightgown at the BB. Bolding and color change are mine.)

________________________________________________________________
Margoo
Member since 11-29-02
04-29-06, 05:48 PM (EST)

22. "RE: Barbie Doll's Nightgown?"
In response to message #21

This is what I could 'read' from the screen capture (I believe it was Why_Nut who posted it).
LAB CLASS XX???-2136(?)-4153(?) SECTION: DNA TESTING
AGENCY(?) NAME – CD0878136 – F2 ACBLDER(?)
EXTRACTED(?) BY: blacked out EXTRACTION DATE: 123196(?)
ABSTRACT(X) AFA(?) ?/? ??? (would this be the control sample?)
RAMSEY, PATSY W/F
RAMSEY, JOHN W/M
RAMSEY, JONBENET W/F

Two lines BLACKED OUT
DATE COMPLETED/JANUARY 13, 1997
EXTRACT(?) DESCRIPTION
#5A,5B# (?) Bloodstains from shirt
#7 Bloodstains from panties
#14B Bloodstain ????? from JonBenet Ramsey
#14J DNA? Or Swab? with Saliva????
#14L, #14M Right and Left hand fingernails from JonBenet Ramsey
#15A, #15B Samples from tape
Bloodstains from white blanket
#17A, #17C Bloodstains from nightgown??
#13A, #13B Semen ??? stain from black blanket
Bloodstain Standard from John Andrew Ramsey
_________________________________________________________________(fold in page??)
LABORATORY REPORT
BB AB BB AA AC 24,26
??????? Section Testing WB
BB AB BB AA AC 24,26
WB WB
BB AB BB AA AC 24,26
WA WB WB W18 (?)

THE DNA PROFILES DEVELOPED FROM EXHIBITS #5A, 5B, AND 17C MATCHED THE PROFILE FROM JONBENET RAMSEY.
(the left side of the page seems to be cut off and starts with)
FED FROM EXHIBITS #7, 14L AND 14M REVEALED A MIX-
(left side cut off) COMPONENT MATCHED JONBENET RAMSEY. IF THE MINOR
(left side cut off) 5 (or S or?) #7, 14L AND 14M WERE CONTRIBUTED BY A SINGLE
(JOHN is cut off) ANDREW RAMSEY, MELINDA RAMSEY, JOHN B. RAMSEY, JEFF
RAMSEY (blacked out)
(cut off??) EXCLUDED AS A SOURCE OF THE DNA ANALYZED.

At that point the names go off the screen, but we can reasonably infer that the rest of the listing is of BLOODSTAIN STANDARD FROM John, Patsy, Burke and Melinda, plus John's brother Jeff and another named individual or two or three who have been censored out of the broadcast copy.
_______________________________________________________________

The report indicates that both the white top she was found in and the Barbie doll nightgown have two bloodstains on them. The ones on the white top are JonBenet's as well as at least one on the Barbie nightgown, however the result from #17A is missing. What if it turns out that the bloodstains on both garments are on the back and got there via the two abrasions? What if it was actually the Barbie nightgown JonBenet went to bed in? We're all familiar with Patsy's account on how JonBenet was sound asleep so she left her in the white top and put the long johns on her. Yet, in her June 1998 interview, she said (bolding and color change mine)-

0016

1 I didn't hear anything last night. I didn't

2 here anything that night.

3 TOM HANEY: And how about JonBenet?

4 PATSY RAMSEY: She was really a

5 sound sleeper. She was very sound asleep that

6 night. She fell asleep in the car and was just

7 wiped out. She went to bed.


Notice she didn't say "I or we put her to bed." To say "She went to bed" would imply, imo, she was physically able to do this on her own. I would think that there were a few times or so when JonBenet fell asleep before having her night clothes on and Patsy still dressed her in her pajamas or nightgown. So what would make the night of 12/25 different from any other night? Seems rather hinky.

-Tea

 

The question of "redressing" that the swampsters won't accept is that when a molester/killer takes the time to pull up the underwear and long johns, that's redressing. When the molester/killer takes the time to wipe down the genital area when no semen or saliva is involved, that's "caring for" the victim. Like the prior molestation, the RST will not acknowledge that JB was redressed and cared for because that implies caring--leading to someone who knew JonBenet...and supports the killer as known to the victim, and vice versa.

The RST has to hang onto the killer being a stranger if they're going to keep looking to match that DNA. Doesn't then bother them that those known to the family some swampsters are certain are involved don't match the DNA, however. They just "believe" that those people either weren't tested, the tests were wrong, or there was in fact a group of killers.

That's how you come up with an intruder who can't be linked to the evidence. Ignore the evidence, invent intruders who can't be found or linked to the evidence, all because you KNOW the Ramseys just can't have done this, and that's that.

In fact, I think there is an excellent case to be made that the blood smear on JonBenet's thigh indicates her pants were in fact pulled down, the blood smeared on her leg after the vaginal injuries were inflicted. I remember something about a fingerprint actually being lifted from her leg...but I'll have to look that up to be sure. Thomas wrote about it, but since no one knows the results of any fingerprint match, or none, we don't talk about it much.

As for JonBenet being awake that night in her room, we have conflicting stories about that, don't we? Burke said she walked up the stairs herself. Her parents said they carried her up. I have never been satisfied with the ever-changing tale of the sequence of events that took place in putting JonBenet to bed that night, as told by the Rams.

John says he took her up first, followed by Patsy. John says he removed her shoes...or was it her coat...or both...or neither? Patsy then followed and "finished" dressing her for bed. Patsy said she couldn't find JonBenet's nightgown, or was it her other pj bottoms? So she fumbled in a drawer and found the long john pants, leaving the same top on her.

But where did JonBenet's coat go? I don't see it in the pictures of the room we have. Where are those shoes? Boots, I believe John described in his book. I also haven't ever seen those in any pictures of the room. On JB's bed one can see her pink nightshirt she wore in the Christmas morning picture, at the top. Patsy said she kept those under the pillow. Where are the bottoms that match? I've never seen those mentioned, either. Where are the black velvet pants Patsy took off of JonBenet that night, allegedly?

And how is it that Patsy didn't notice or remember that JonBenet was wearing panties 3 sizes too big for her? Or know that the package of size 12 Bloomies was opened so JonBenet could wear them, with Patsy's permission? Patsy sandbags on these questions big time when Kane questions her on these EXTREMELY IMPORTANT ISSUES in Atlanta in 2000, with Wood running interference, cuing Patsy, who changes her story on those panties three times in short order.

Like it doesn't matter, ho hum, not important, what IS important is FIND THAT INTRUDER!

Yeah. And with the WORLD-CLASS FORENSIC AND INVESTIGATIVE GUIDANCE of the Ramseys and their PIs and lawyers...that old intruder 10 YEARS LATER is still dancing on his one foot and laughing his hairless a$$ off about getting away with this murder.

But no one knows if JonBenet was actually asleep in the car, as she was not seen by anyone but the Rams after she left the Whites.

You know, I just thought of something. If JB had a bedwetting problem, and she was so fast asleep that Patsy wouldn't wake her to take her to the bathroom that night before all went to bed until the next morning...why wouldn't Patsy put a pair of pullups on JB instead of long johns?

Remember, the pullups were hanging out of the cabinet in the laundry area beside JonBenet's room. Patsy said she had opened that package to pack for the Disney boat trip.

So why wouldn't she take the time to walk out, get a pair, and put them on JonBenet to ensure that she wouldn't have a wet bed and need a bath the next morning, when they'd surely be in a hurry?

Hm. That's what I'd do.

 

JBR's coat

IMO there is an inconsistancy regarding the coat and shoes. I believe I read in one of the interviews that JR said he removed her coat and shoes in her bedroom. In the 6/98 PR interview (line 0339) PR is shown a photo #63 of the white Jag and PR identifies JBR's coat as the one she wore that night. Also I read JonBenet wore boots with the outfit not shoes and I wonder if the boots were found? The white Jag was the car taken to the White's so IMO her coat wasn't taken off upstairs in the bedtime scenario and shoes weren't taken off, boots were. It seems like a small thing but it changes things from the moment they walk in the house. I think Tracey should clear that one up in his book for starters since it is called Shoes.

 

That is if she was actually wearing the long johns in the first place when she was killed. I still think it's possible she put on the Barbie nightgown, and then was changed back into the white top along with the long johns after the fact. This was done, imo, so John and Patsy could make the claim that JonBenet was put to bed within five seconds after they got home and they didn't have any contact with her after that.

-Tea

 

In DOI pg 9 John stated - I got her out of the car and carried her upstairs to her room, laid her on the bed, and took off her coat and shoes.

You're right, Cranberry (and koldkase, too) about the coat aspect of this case. And you know, if he lied about this, then how are we supposed to trust anything else he said about what happened that night when they got home?

-Tea

 

?

The lines on her back were more than likely the result of the livitity. The blood settled around the wrinkles on the back of her shirt. Meaning that the blood pooled around the wrinkles causing lines to appear. Now I don't believe that the lines have any way of proving or disproving the fact that she could have possibly been redressed after she was killed. She did appear to have been wiped down though, so depending on where she was wiped down that could prove that she was completely undressed and then redressed, but I really don't see how the lines on her back can prove this claim.

 

long johns

She probably was wearing the long johns when she died since they had urine on the front of them which happened when she was alive. That also could have happened as she was dying.

 

I'm a bit confused as to what exactly JB was wearing when the body was discovered: I understand it was the outfit she had worn to the Whites' Chritmas party but I read somewhere that she also had on her favorite Barbie nightgown (?). TIA for replying.

 

My thoughts...

JonBenet was wearing a white long-sleeved shirt with star on the front of it with white long-johns. However, according to the Ramsey's she was not wearing the white shirt when she was put to bed. The Ramsey's changed her pants, but left the red turtle neck on because they didn't want to wake her (going by their story here). The red turtle neck was found in JonBenet's bathroom.

Rashomon, the barbie gown you are referring to was found next to her body. I have my theory as to why, but I won't go into that. Anyhow that article of clothing was not on her, it was just laying beside

Texan, I agree, however it is not uncommon for the bladder to release fluids after death, so it IS possible that this to happened after her death. But I do agree with you, I don't think she was redressed by her killer.

 

This is the photo of JonBenet's back which shows the straight white lines going across it-

Those white lines are too straight and narrow to be any wrinkles from the back of her shirt, SeekingJustice. They look more like the ones that would be made with a garment's waistband.

Isn't it also possible, Texan, that the urine from the underwear soaked through to the long johns after she was redressed in them? Bottom line is that I don't believe JonBenet was wearing the white top nor the long johns at the moment of the initial assault of the blow to the head.

JonBenet was found in the white top with the silver star and sequins she wore to the Whites' Christmas gathering, a pair of white long johns, and a pair of size 12 underwear from Bloomingdales with a rosebud pattern and Wednesday on the waistband.

-Tea

 

Look at your photo again Tea, if indeed those lines are from a waistband why are they arranged so strangly? And why are the lines so far appart? That must have been some kind of waistband... The lines are different lenghts and are not lined up in a fashion that would suggest that they were caused by a waistband. Notice the line at the 3 inch mark located in between the two dark spots... It is very short....and is located in the middle of her back... this was the result of her shirt not her pants.

Also FYI there was to much urine on her pants for it to have "soaked" through as you have suggested. She was wearing the the pants she was found in when this happened. I have worked at a preschool for almost year now, so I have seen my share of accidents (most happen during nap time when the children are sleeping). People are making the bedwetting issue larger than what it really is. I have 15 children in my class in between the ages of 4 and 5. Out of those 15 children I have had 6 of them wet their mats from time to time. One of them would wet it every day if you don't wake him up and make him use the restroom. There is another child in the room next to me who wears a pull up during nap. So this issue isn't uncommon, and I wish people would stop making such a big deal about her bed wetting problem.

 

"a pair of white long johns, and a pair of size 12 underwear from Bloomingdales with a rosebud pattern and Wednesday on the waistband."

The thick elastic waistand of a Pull-Up could account for the top line with the above two.

 

Good idea! But keep in mind that there were marks on her back above her shoulder blades that are very similar the ones on her lower back.. .Little to high for pull ups don't you think?

 

Those are pretty faint in comparison, aren't they? Can you enlarge the photo of her lower back as the one above is?

 

Well, of course, there weren't as many wrinkles in top of her shirt, not to mention they were much smaller wrinkles...



Sorry this is as good as it gets....


The marks are still to high up on her back to have been left by a pull up or pants. Notice the mark at the 3 inch mark located slightly above and inbetween the two dark spots. That mark is the the middle of her back... Much to high for what are you suggesting.

 

Maybe, maybe not. Unless Smit has more plans of releasing these photo's, it's hard to make a definite choice.

 

The first two lines are a uniform distance apart (I'd estimate an inch or so) and they run parallel to each other. The first line is the top of the long johns waistband, whereas the second line is the bottom of the waistband. The third line, in my estimation, is the bottom edge of the underwear waistband, with the top edge being within the bottom edge of the other waistband. The length of the first line is the same as the second line, yet has been obscured. Frankly, I don't think you'd get parallel lines like that from the wrinkles in a shirt unless it was prearranged. Also, please note that there is a slight curving inward of the body between the first two lines. This would be the area of the waist.

At this moment, I am wearing a pair of khaki shorts, with a one-inch hem. There are two pinkish-red lines running parallel across my thighs. The top line would be from where the stitching is at the top of the hem, and the other line is from the bottom edge of the shorts. The same is also true for the waistband.

It's possible that this short line was made either by her shirt or something she was lying on top of, but the shirt could not have made those other lines.

I've never thought this was about bedwetting. As Patsy replied to Barbara Walters' scenario about killing JonBenet because she wet the bed, she said, "Let me tell you, I've had stage four ovarian cancer..." and that bedwetting wasn't important when compared to that, or something to that effect.

-Tea

 

Thanks Moab

Now it really looks like the three strands are below the waist if you notice the slight curve of her side.

 

All I can say to seeing all of these photos again, is. that poor little girl. Just what did happen to JonBenét that fateful night? Her mother and father must know, without a doubt. How can they sleep at night? There is no way an intruder ended this little girl's life. No way!