This is not a DNA case...

Discussion in 'Justice for JonBenet Discussion - Public Forum' started by "J_R", Aug 29, 2004.

  1. VP

    VP Member


    First of all, Lou Smit has been applauded and held up as a hero for solving the Heather Dawn Church case for years - mostly by Jameson. The fact is, Lou did not "investigate" crap. He sent fingerprints to LE around the US to see if he could get a match, and he Louisiana. Here's the rub, in 1991-92, Louisian did not have a modernized AFIS computer system...all fingerprints had to be analyzed manually. In 1995 Louisiana received their modernized AFIS computer system and a match was found for the fingerprints from the Heather Dawn Church case - 1995 was the same year that Lou Smit took the case. What did he investigate? Nothing. He got lucky, period.

    As for the DNA - The autopsy report indicated her pelvic area was swabbed for potential DNA. There has never been any report that those swabs yielded any foreign genetic material. Why would there be foreign DNA in her panties, and not on her or in her? Where did the DNA come from, I mean PHYSICALLY come from that was found in her panties? From the intruder? How?

    And just for grins, let's visit Smit's initial theory on this case - notes he made in a notebook. Interesting that he SO believed the evidence must fit the theory, not the other way around.,9485,1101991025,00.html

    Did an Intruder Kill JonBenet Ramsey?
    Although no suspects other than JOHN and PATSY RAMSEY have been named in the 1996 murder of their daughter JonBenet, a key figure in the investigation remains convinced that the killer was a pedophile bent on kidnapping who broke into the Boulder, Colo., home and assaulted the six-year-old while her family slept.

    LOU SMIT, a retired Colorado Springs homicide detective, worked on the case for 18 months before quitting in protest over the direction the probe was going. Smit formed another theory using key pieces of evidence. He believes the killer may have spotted JonBenet as she glided by in a convertible in Boulder's holiday Parade of Lights. ~in a convertible?? wtf - where did he pull this from?~ On Christmas night, while the family was out, he entered through a basement window, roamed the house and penned a ransom note, using a legal pad and black Sharpie marker he found near the kitchen.

    Around midnight, after the family's return, he slipped upstairs to JonBenet's room and, using a stun gun, temporarily immobilized her. He carried the youngster to the basement and sexually assaulted her while simultaneously choking her, apparently for the thrill, with a garrote--a favored tool of pedophiles, ~please reference for me ALL the cases involving this favored tool in the commission of crimes by pedophiles against their victims~ Smit says--fashioned from the handle of one of Patsy Ramsey's paintbrushes.

    When JonBenet woke, ~when JonBenet woke? Was she asleep? According to his notes above, the intruder only "temporarily immobilized her." ~ tore the duct tape from her mouth and began screaming, Smit theorizes that the killer panicked and struck her, perhaps with a heavy flashlight. With no time to retrieve his note from upstairs, the killer broke a window and fled. Later, police found a scuff mark from what appeared to be a boot on the nearby wall as well as unidentified boot and palm prints.

    ~She tore the tape from her own mouth?? What about the fact that her hands were bound? And the intruder did not have time to run upstairs and get his note? Who spread it out on the stairwell? The Border Patrol? And WHY THE HELL would the killer have to break a window to get out? Would it not have been easier, not to mention safer, to simply unlock and open the window??~

    From his experience with more than 200 murder and fantasy-stalker cases, Smit believes the killer intended to go to Mexico--that is why he demanded the odd sum of $118,000, ~the exchange rate in 1996 was 7.5994 per American $1.00, $118,000 = 896789.20. Close? Why close? Why not $130,000, which is still not a million pesos, but a lot closer and not such an odd number?~ which at the time was close to a million pesos, and some of it in $20 bills, for easy exchanging. "I believe the Ramseys are innocent," says Smit. "If it's an intruder, it's not the parents, and I think it's that simple." He adds, "The theory doesn't determine the evidence. The evidence should determine the theory." ~Ya think?~

    RED font and bold emphasis mine.
  2. Texan

    Texan FFJ Senior Member


    not only all that but what about the ransom note this guy wrote. It happened to mention John's good southern common sense, which was something the family said occasionally.
  3. Lora13

    Lora13 Member

    O.K. so you have absolutely no interest in what made those marks on JonBenet's body? Don't be a fool. That is exactly why this case has not been solved. Marks on her body could lead you straight to the Ramseys! Which I believe is who you all want behind bars anyway. It has been said by others that Patsy has a habit of wearing her rings upside down, and the marks on JonBenet's body where left by her rings as she held JonBenet down and strangled her. There are other theories too. But I would sure hate to put you in a coma.

    And by the way, yes, people do stage crime scenes. I have experienced this first hand. My Mother and younger Sister were murdered in our home in December 2001. The police ruled it as murder suicide and closed the case. After fighting the police department for nearly a year and hiring my own detectives I managed to get the case reopened. It didn't take long for the truth to come out. The killer placed the gun in my Mother's hand after he killed her and my Sister. He also wet a towel in order to clean up his bloody foot prints that surrounded my Mother's body. He may have gotten away with it too, had he have not placed the gun in her right hand. She was left handed. The killer was one of my Mother's business partners. He was tried and convicted early this fall. He received the death penalty.

    So don't say that staging doesn't happen. Because it absolutely does... Does it mean that this applies to Ramsey case? No. But don't say that it doesn't happen.
  4. Elle

    Elle Member

    Oh, Lora, I am absolutely stunned after reading this post. It was the first
    e-mail I opened this moring. I am very sorry your mother and young sister were murdered.

    I'm glad you are a young strong woman who had the courage to hire a detective and get the case opened again, and nail the killer. It is also good you are here posting to help solve the JonBenét case.
  5. VP

    VP Member


    No one said staging doesn't happen - Bobmymainmanhottie only said the intruder didn't stage the crime. As for not caring what caused the marks on her body Lora, you have to understand that we have been hashing this case over for the past 7 years - it is doubtful, at this point, that anyone could throw out a theory we haven't explored - including countless threads on the possibility the marks were made by Patsy's ring(s).

    I am apalled at the fact that you had to hire your own detectives. There were a few HUGE red flags that should have, at the very least, made LE take pause. For one, why would your mother kill your sister in the first place? Did she have a history of violence toward her children? Depression? Anything that would make them believe it was a true suicide? Two, was there a note? Three, women RARELY shoot themselves in the head - a vanity thing. And four, murder/suicides are rare between mother and child - fathers usually pull that one; the mother normally just murders the kid and then stages an elaborate intruder type scenario.

    I, also, am sorry for your loss and admire your bravery in pursuing the case and bringing this scum to justice so swiftly. Do you mind if I ask, was Lou Smit the detective you hired on your own?
  6. Elle

    Elle Member

    Evidence vs. non evidence:


    Thank you for posting this Evidence vs. non evidence. I will find the time to to through this. A great post for revision.
  7. Elle

    Elle Member

    I remember reading there were three pony tails like all the others, Little.
    There is no mention of ponytails at all in Dr. Meyer's autopsy on the ACR site.

    By any chance, Do you have the source for the "unredacted" statement.

    "REMAINDER OF EXTERNAL EXAMINATION: …The scalp is covered by long blond hair which is fixed in two ponytails, one on top of the head secured by a cloth hair tie and blue elastic band, and one in the lower back of the head, secured by a blue elastic band."

    I would like to read more.

  8. Lora13

    Lora13 Member

    No, I did not hired Lou Smit. I can't even say that the thought crossed my mind. I understand what you mean about the marks on JonBenet. It's like beating a dead cow, it just hasn't lead to anything significant enough to lead to an arrest. However, that still doesn't stop me from asking questions. I guess that is just my nature. I don't give up and I don't stop asking questions until I feel that they are answered.

    To answer some of your other questions about my case... Unfortunately, my Mother was abusive at times, which is why the police were quick to jump to the conclusion that she was shooter. She was hated by many and her career was about to go down the drain. The case was very complicated from the beginning, and once it was reopened it became even more complicated.

    Now that the case is closed and the killer is behind bars, I am attempting to move on with my life. I am now raising my two remaining younger sisters, niece, and nephew. (My older sister committed suicide nearly month after the murders (January 2002) so I now have custody of her children and my younger sisters) Thank you all for your kind words. God bless you all.
  9. Lora13

    Lora13 Member

    I have been keeping up with the Ramsey case for years. I think the main reason it caught my attention in the first place, was because JonBenet was in pageants. Me and my sisters all participated in similar pageants growing up... The thought of some sicko perve watching was rather disturbing. So that is how I initially became interested in the case. I didn't really become involved on the forums until a year or so ago. I still don't post very often, but I do try to skim through the forums to keep up with what is going on. "This is not a DNA case" is the only part of this forum I have posted on so far. I just joined a few weeks ago. But I have been a member on maketoast and crime and justice forums for a year now.
  10. VP

    VP Member


    If any of us could answer these questions definitively, the case would be solved.

    A great resource for information on the case - and all that has transpired, as far as theories, in the past 7 years, you might try ACR's website . To really go back in time, visit one of the first to come online and post her theories on the JBR case; most knew her simply as Ruthee. A self-proclaimed psychic, and a devoted soldier in the fight to bring the perps to justice, whomever they are. I always believed Jameson's hatred for Ruthee stemmed from the distinct possibility that Ruthee came very close (maybe even right on target), with some of her well thought-out theories and insights.

    Who remembers the theory she had on the pot holder loom? She thought the marks on JBR could have been caused by this item. Somewhere in these pages you can find that theory as well as a lot of interesting material that came from the very beginning of this case.
  11. Lora13

    Lora13 Member

    I have read through some of the stuff on But I haven't ever heard of Ruthee... I'll check it out. Sounds like she has a pretty interesting theory. Most of the stuff I have read on has been pretty interesting. I wish I had the time to read through all of it. Like you I have heard and read a lot of theories over the years... Maybe one of these days someone will come up with something that will crack the case wide open. Who knows. But I'll check out the web site you posted.. Thanks.
  12. VP

    VP Member


    A confession? At this point it is all we can hope for.
  13. Elle

    Elle Member

    Hoping you can keep up your strength Lora, and that you have someone who can help with the children. I'm at a loss for words right now, other than to wish you all the best. You certainly are one very special young woman.
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