Was Patsy scared of John?

Discussion in 'Justice for JonBenet Discussion - Public Forum' started by Freebird, Jan 17, 2002.

  1. Freebird

    Freebird Active Member

    I've been reading at another place that JBR wet the bed about once a week, enough to have an extra bed in her room, pull ups to sleep in, and Fleet even had to bring her wet panties home in a bag from having an accident.
    That sounds like she had a problem to me, yet John says he didn't know she wet the bed and Jams excuses it by saying
    Patsy dealt with it and didn't bother John..........."perhaps in an abusive home the father would be aware of the bedwetting " blah blah blah, but not in this home or some such nonsence.

    Now, to me this sounds more like Patsy was trying to keep this from John.
    I would be discussing the health of my children with their father along with having them checked out to make sure there wasn't a bladder or kidney problem.
    At the least ,I would probably complain to the father about cleaning a wet bed once in a while, ya know , it's in our blood to make sure our husbands know how hard we work.

    So why would Patsy hide this from John? or John lie about not knowing? How perfect can your mariage be if one partner is in the dark about things like his children? somethings not right here.
  2. JR

    JR FFJ Senior Member


    You have a valid point. How many mom's would not discuss their children and their children's behavior with their fathers? Part of being a family is discussing the accomplishments of each family member. When there is regression we as parents discuss that and more often than not all family members would be aware of those as well though parents should try to keep the embarrassment to the child at a minimum IMHO, therefore they might discuss these more so in private but they would and should discuss them.
  3. Freebird

    Freebird Active Member


    Its like that in my house, issues concerning my kids get discussed. That is why I don't understand, either Patsy was scared to tell John or was ashamed her daughter did this and kept it secret which I doubt since she had bought pull ups, so why would John deny knowing his daughter wet her bed?

    Mabey he wanted to distance himself from her bed and the possible prior sexual abuse by claiming ignorance of JBs bed habits.

    .....Just wondering why hir felt the need to slam ST and LHP on this bedwetting.
  4. Nandee

    Nandee FFJ Senior Member

    I agree

    I discussed everything about the kids with my husband, but I didn't have bedwetters.... I had a friend whose boys wet the bed until they were around 11. She was very embarassed and her husband blamed her... Then she found out from his sister that he was a bedwetter!

    I could be a heriditary problem... or sometimes kids are just so tired they have an accident... but, the fact that JB was trained and started again is troubling. I could understand it if it was a problem during Patsy's cancer crisis, but it didn't seem to be connected to stress... I've never heard of a chid out of diapers pooping in the bed.........
  5. Tricia

    Tricia Administrator Staff Member


    There are a variety of reason kids wet the bed.
    Everything from medical to emotional to just plain old sleeping too deep. Wetting the bed does not mean there is abuse in the family at all.


    It is also a proven fact that children start wetting the bed when they are under stress or being abused. Not just sexual abuse. There are other types of abuse like emotional abuse. Yelling at a child. Tearing down a child's self esteem or (imo) forcing a child to perform, look perfect and to be "on show".

    What Patsy did to JonBenet with the pageant scene was not normal. It was sick.

    The fact that JonBenet was defecating in her bed AFTER being trained ( like nandee pointed out) speaks volumes as to JonBenet's emotional state.

    Remember none of us, no matter how close we think we are to certain people, really know what goes on in the home when the doors are shut.

    Patsy dyed her 6 year old daughter's hair blond for the pageants.

    Patsy made her 6 year old daughter perform ALL DAY for the classes at her little school

    Patsy dressed her 6 year old daughter up to look like a street walker so Patsy could have the glory of a cheap trophy to put in her trophy case.

    No wonder JonBenet soiled herself.

    JonBenet needed to escape.
  6. Freebird

    Freebird Active Member


    That makes alot of sence, when I was younger I got fat and tried to look ugly to keep 'anonymous' hands off me. If I don't look good then I won't get molested.

    JB didn't really have that option with Patsy who made her even more attractive.
    I think it's telling if she was soiling her own bed to keep from being hurt, that would suggest that whatever was hurting her was happening in her own bed.
  7. Freebird

    Freebird Active Member


    I get that to when I see him........
    can't put a finger on it but something just ain't right.

    His reactions are just as abbynormal as Patsy and Johns.

    I think there is some mental illness in that family somewhere.
  8. Tricia

    Tricia Administrator Staff Member

    In Steve Thomas' book Inside the Ramsey Murder Investigation is the quote you are looking for Angel.

    Prologue page 7, hard cover, last paragraph:

    Six days later, during a party at her parents' home, a family friend came across a JonBenet who was seldom seen. The child was immaculate in a holiday frock, and her platinum blond hair was done perfectly, but she sat alone on a staircase in the butler's kitchen, crying softly. The friend sat beside her.

    "What's wrong honey?"

    Little Miss Christmas sobbed, "I don't feel pretty."

    End of Prologue.

    Makes me sick to think a 6 year old was made to feel like she should worry if she is "pretty" or not.
  9. Freebird

    Freebird Active Member

    Hey Jams feel free to copy this too................

    .........Ashley, code-six ..............thats all I got to say

    Jams you should question why alot of abused people are drawn to this case?

    being abused doesn't make us deranged or mentally incompetent,
    but we sure do have a better sence of the evil that is hidden in people, a more tuned radar if you like. Something stinks in this case and the smell is coming from the Ramseys.............. you figure out why.

    Edited out of respect for this forum
    Last edited: Jan 18, 2002
  10. Watching You

    Watching You Superior Bee Admin

    Oh for heaven sake

    jameson is on record (lots of us have the chat logs, BTW) as describing in sordid detail her own abuse as a child - raped by her brother, snakes thrown on her, pregnant 15 times, yada yada yada. The woman is nuts. Period.

  11. Freebird

    Freebird Active Member

    Jameson said,

    "This poster was judging the Ramseys by her experience - I felt that was sad and unfair."

    **** Wrong Jams, we were discussing possible reasons for children soiling the bed after being 'housebroken'........ a means of protecting yourself from someone was a possible reason, I simply backed that up by telling of one way I choose to try and protect myself. No where in that post was I judging the Ramseys.

    Why you picked my post out of the whole thead is beyond me,but for you and asshley to try and ridicule or dismiss me simply because I was molested as a child is assinine.
    You show your ignorance by assuming people who have been molested spend their lives 'projecting' onto others.

    I assure you I am just as normal and capable of seeing that the evidence in this case leads to the Ramseys regardless of having been molested.

    You also stated....
    "I have seen abused children - with 34 foster kids you better believe it. I saw nothing in the Ramsey family when I met them (after the murder) that led me to believe they EVER were involved in any of that. Their other kids are the best witnesses they have."

    **** You just judged the Ramseys by your experience, why should I not be allowed the same ?
    ...... your arrogance is exceeded only by your ignorance

    You have allowed your ego to run amuk if you seriously think that you would be allowed to see the 'dark side' of an abuser simply because you fancy yourself as a super-dooper internet detective.

    ......Speaking of detectives, ain't that Steve Thomas just about the sexiest man you ever did see. I hope you remembered to wish him a happy Bday. LOL!
  12. Dunvegan

    Dunvegan Guest

    ...also...the time when JonBenet sat on the stairs...

    ...deeply distressed, and when asked why said she was "not pretty"...was in extreme proximity in time to:

    <ol>A party the Ramseys were giving...and...

    An extremely mysterious 911 call...and...

    Within 48 hours of these events, JonBenet Ramsey was dead. Murdered.</ol>I seriously distrust this sort of "coincidence."
  13. Watching You

    Watching You Superior Bee Admin

    So do I, Dun

    though the Ramsey self-appointed spokesperson at the bog will deny this ever happened. How she thinks she can speak with authority on this issue is beyond me - she wasn't there - but she will say her sources said it never happened. Yeah right.

    Steve Thomas didn't just pull this information out of thin air - someone who was there and who spoke to JB told him about this incident. I would take ST's word and just about anyone else's word on this above the snake at the snake pit.

    But, I digress. It totally made sense to me - a little girl sitting on the stairs feeling bad because she didn't feel pretty. Not that she didn't look pretty, but that she didn't *feel* pretty - it jives with this statement in the autopsy: "All of the sections contain vascular congestion and focal interstital chronic inflammation." The term "chronic" is not open to interpretation, according to Dr. Cyril Wecht, and any intelligent person knows that. Chronic means the inflammation was at least 48 to 72 hours old. The inflammation was not fresh, something had caused it on December 22 or 23, or perhaps even earlier, according to Wecht.

    Now the bozos at the swamp can spin this to mean she was inflamed due to bubble bath or urine or poor hygiene, but don't be swayed by that. It is pure bunk. The focal interstitial chronic inflammation - break it down - "focal" means "in some spots," "interstitial" means in the walls of the vagina. How would bubble bath or urine or poor hygiene affect only some spots and not others? Don't buy into jameson's ridiculous theories. It is misinformation to the max.

    Consider this from the autopsy - "Acute inflammatory infiltrate is not seen." Inflammatory infiltrate would be white blood cells, the ones that would rush to the scene to defend the body. They were not found at this injured location on the vaginal wall because JB had died before there was time for them to arrive. That would take an hour or so from the moment of the injury, and her body's vital reactions had ceased before then - along with her life.

    As Dr. Wecht says, "She died too soon, in more ways than one."

    Now, anyone can spin this whatever way she wishes, but scientific fact is scientific fact, and all the spinning in the world isn't going to change that. Wecht is under the bus with many other experts who have spoken out about this case and it hasn't been in the Ramseys' favor, and there are other experts who agree with him and some who are noncommittal and some who do not agree with him, but he makes sense to me on this issue. That does not mean that everything he says makes sense to me, but he's the expert, not I. I know what chronic means, and I know what acute means, and I know he is right about this. The Code six wingnut at the swamp is, to put it nicely, "simply wrong, *grin*.
  14. Nandee

    Nandee FFJ Senior Member

    how lucky for jams

    If she didn't raid the other fourms she would have nothing to talk to herself about
    She posted this:

    19 . "log grabber"
    Posted by jameson on Jan-07-02 at 09:09 PM (EST)

    Don't know who first found this photo, but it seems to me that the thing I called a poker is a fiteplace tool.

    .... Hey Jams.... How did you copy it if you didn't know who found it? We both know you found my post on WS.. Image Basement room thread, post #65!!
  15. 7kluz

    7kluz FFJ Senior Member

    I don't think that Patsy is/was afraid of John physically, but I do believe that she was/is afraid of losing what is left of their reputation <i>(which is actually very little considering the majority of the public think they murdered their daughter)</i>. I have no doubt that they each have their own reasons for covering up the truth of what really happened that night.

    If John was molesting JonBenét, and Patsy walked in on it and accidently whacked her while aiming for John, then that would mean admitting to some incredibly embarrassing and shameful activities; not to mention <b>Life</b> in prison. For an "Uppity Southern Gal" like Patsy, having incest confirmed would be worse than the death of her "prized" little girl.

    <b>If what was allegedly reported by Linda Hoffman Pugh is true, that she found where JonBenét had defecated in her bed and that it was 'the size of a grapefruit', I'm pondering how such a large amount got out of her clothing; OR did she not have on underwear, and if so, why not?</b>
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