Weapon used on JonBenet's skull: golf club or flashlight?

Discussion in 'Justice for JonBenet Discussion - Public Forum' started by cynic, Aug 20, 2012.

  1. koldkase

    koldkase FFJ Senior Member

    Yes, bravo, cynic and otg.

    Just...please tell me that the BPD and DAs, who spent $2 MILLION DOLLARS ON THIS CASE...had professionals actually do these experiments and know precisedly what caused this injury?

    Go ahead; lie to me.

    But this has me thinking: what if the flashlight was left on the counter ON PURPOSE. As a red herring?

    That would explain why the batteries were wiped down: if the Ramseys' fingerprints were on them, it couldn't have belonged to an intruder.

    So it was meant to confuse LE.

    And that's why Patsy claimed she didn't know it was theirs.

    Of course, it was always possible LE would figure out it belonged to the Ramseys, but maybe they were rolling the dice when they were staging, not knowing how all the many "clues" JR spoke about "left" by this clever creature would shake out, but hoping to confuse LE enough that the Ramseys could slide by.

    Which is exactly what happened.

    With help from Hunter and Lacy, of course.
  2. otg

    otg Member


    The BPD has it all under control, KK. They have all the answers. Everything is ok. Now relax, KK... Relax.... Rest..........................

  3. koldkase

    koldkase FFJ Senior Member

    Thank you.

    Attached Files:

  4. koldkase

    koldkase FFJ Senior Member

    Did y'all do this already?

    I'm sure cynic can lay the actual photo over the graphic.... Me, I'm on vacay....

    Attached Files:

  5. Learnin

    Learnin Member

    Confuse is the main word for sure, koldkase. Yea, I think that's the best motive for the fingerprintless (is that a word?) flashlight. I could just hear the defense if prosecution had done their job: "Now, why would my clients wipe down a flashlight if it were their own? Why, there fingerprints should've been on it!"
  6. heymom

    heymom Member

    At last...

    I can now see that this is just a portion of JonBenet's skull, oriented toward the back, actually. All this time, I thought it was the TOP of her head, and that the blow had struck at the top REAR of her skull, but this is just the back section. Actually now it makes total sense to me that she died or was close to death quickly after she was struck; this is the most dangerous area to hit someone in.

    After my son fell off his skateboard, the pediatric neurologist who treated him said he was very lucky - that if he had fallen backward and hit his head, he would probably have died. As it was, he had a mild skull fracture and only lost his sense of smell (most of it), which is common with head injuries. Sometimes it returns, but many times, it does not.

    But JonBenet never had a chance of recovering, not with that blow to the back of her head.
  7. otg

    otg Member

    I hate to disturb you, KK, if you were having a good rest. But since you posted the above side-by-side, I will point out something that confirms that we have the position of the depressed fracture correct. Just something for you and everyone else to ponder while I catch up on "real life" for a bit.

    It is not as noticeable in the skull photo as it is in the alleged X-ray of her skull, but there is a small crack coming from the oval shape on the upper left portion (as the above photo is oriented). Dr. Meyer addresses it in this portion of the AR:
    I believe here he is describing that small linear crack that appears to come away from the depressed fracture and begins going off to the left-hand side of her skull. You can see this small crack best in the photo that is supposedly of the X-ray of her skull.

    Actually, I believe the linear crack here is following the suture line of the lambdoid suture, and that there may be a suture bone there as well. (I don't remember if I mentioned suture bones here before, or it it was at WS. They're also called Wormian bones after the physician who defined them.) If it's true that this linear portion of the crack is indeed following a suture, then by definition, it is a diastatic fracture. In fact, I'm not certain that the rest of the linear fracture is not somewhat (at least partly) following along the sagittal suture. I'm basing this on where we see in the picture that the fracture goes toward the front of the skull.

    There is much more about the skull that is worth discussing that I'll post later. Some of it, I really don't understand myself, so I'm hoping to get feedback on what it means. Think... Symmetry.
  8. koldkase

    koldkase FFJ Senior Member

    Wormian? Oh, what an unfortunate name....

    I did notice that little "wormian" looking, squiggly fracture radiating from the main of the "rectangular" section. It looks like something punched through there.

    There's also a small section that looks like it's hanging loosely on the opposite, right edge of the rectangular comminuted fracture.

    It will be interesting to hear your thoughts on the "symmetry" you mention, when you have a chance. I, however, am way out of my depth on this topic--it's Latin to me; so I'll leave it to you and the medically inclined here.
  9. rashomon

    rashomon Member

    Prior blow with a golf club delivered by Burke

    If memory serves, Burke had hit JonBenet's head with a golf club one or two years before. I recall reading somewhere that Patsy was concerned that JonBenet's face might retain scars from the injury, and that she consulted a plastic surgeon about it.
  10. heymom

    heymom Member

    Yes, Patsy said that JonBenet had walked behind Burke as he was hitting practice golf balls in the yard in Charlevoix. It sounds innocent enough, but the reality may be something quite different.
  11. koldkase

    koldkase FFJ Senior Member

    I found a brilliant website explaining blunt force trauma in a way which even I can understand.

    It also explains some things you've mentioned about your son's head injuries, heymom.

    Included are descriptions of damage caused by various objects impacting on various surfaces:


  12. koldkase

    koldkase FFJ Senior Member

    And for those who are as challenged as I in reading this stuff, like the autopsy language, here's a short and informative section about forensic neuropathology--stuff about brain injuries:


    And this link is specifically to definitions of terms used in describing the brain injuries which are in the autopsy. I intend to look at that more carefully with these in hand:


    BTW, I tried to go to another article at this site, and it is now asking me to log in or create a (free) account. Maybe you only get to see so many and then have to join? Sorry if that's the case. I don't mind joining, though, for free, but it is another hassle, so sorry about that if it's a problem for you.
  13. BobC

    BobC Poster of the EON - Fabulous Inimitable Transcript

    Golf club.
  14. Cherokee

    Cherokee FFJ Senior Member

    Golf club.

    If the lantern end of the Maglite was used, the terrific force of the impact on JonBenet's skull would have smashed the light bulb and, most probably, the glass shield. As far as we know, there was NO damage found on the Maglite, not even a dent. For the head blow to have caused the hairline fracture and displacement of skull pieces, it would have to be brought down with a tremendous amount of violent energy. We're not talking about a bump on the head, or a bruise, or even a concussion. We're talking about splitting the skull, from the back, with JonBenet's head in a downward position.

    Furthermore, for the Maglite to have been used and have it fit the profile of the head wound, JonBenet would have had to be hit from the side, with her head down, and that is a very awkward position for the assailant to get any degree of leverage. Using physics, I believe we have already proved JonBenet was hit from behind and from above while her head was in a downward slant. In addition, the head wound does NOT match the half-moon design of the end of a flashlight but the more ovoid/rectangular head of a golf club.

    If the assailant hit JonBenet from behind with the Maglite, the indentation of the head injury would have been spread horizontally across the back of her skull, not vertically.

    The Maglite was most likely used to navigate the house, and write the ransom note, without turning on lights that would alert the neighbors. The fact that the Maglite and the batteries were wiped clean of fingerprints and placed prominently on the kitchen counter would give the impression the Ramseys planted it as a red herring to focus attention away from the true weapon, a golf club. This further confirmed by the Ramseys acting like they couldn't say if it was THEIR Maglite when they had one just like it. If they had one like it, then where was THEIR Maglite if the one on the kitchen counter WASN'T theirs?

    Attached Files:

  15. rashomon

    rashomon Member

    Baseball bat, maybe?

    I have always been curious about the baseball bat which had been found outside, and which had fibers from the basement carpet on it.
    When confronted with a photo of the bat, Patsy pretended not to know whether it belonged to the Ramseys.
    But irrc, during the GJ hearings it turned out that the bat was Burke's.
  16. heymom

    heymom Member

    I think a baseball bat would have left more of a half-circle, similar to what the Maglight would have left.
  17. BobC

    BobC Poster of the EON - Fabulous Inimitable Transcript

    Check, Cherokee--but let me add something. A gold club is designed aerodynamically to deliver immense force with minimal effort. A flashlight is not. I think that a golf club would be the perfect weapon to use if you weren't very strong. You could get a really good swing going...
  18. Karen

    Karen Member

    It's interesting that Steve Thomas didn't think it was a golf club OR a flashlight.
  19. koldkase

    koldkase FFJ Senior Member

    Some time ago I did some research on bats in general, and the black one outside the butler door in particular, which we do have a photo of.

    The info I got was that bat was a women's softball bat.

    Patsy did belong to that softball team, though Judith Phillips said she seldom played.
  20. zoomama

    zoomama Active Member

    I've mentioned this before but not on this thread. I had to replace my hand held shower nozzle because of the very very hard water we have in our area. The CLR stuff helped it for awhile but the residue that builds up is just too much for the tiny holes to work right. OK so this is just a suggestion. I cna't put up pictures or diagrams like all of you do. The somewhat flattened daisy like head of the shower nozzle is very much like the shape of the large hole in JB skull. The old nozzle of mine was a heavy metal material. What I had to replace it with is nothing like that but a silver kind of plastic and light weight. I don't think they make the heavy metal ones any more. But to suggest this as the weapon that struck the blow to her head changes everything I think happened or where it happened. Patsy could have used the hand held sprayer on JB to wash off her urine or solid poo that night and because of her fighting or whatever became irritated and bang.... over the head. The only reason I'm repeating this is because of the shape of the hole in her skull. It is similar to the side view of the shower head and on edge it is smaller then becomes larger in the middle of head of sprayer.

    Is this even worth mentioning again? Or am I so far off base with it? All of you have so much work into your ideas and can show computer graphics. I'm sorry for my lack of skills to show what I mean. Anyway it's just an idea.
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