Why John lied about breaking the window

Discussion in 'Justice for JonBenet Discussion - Public Forum' started by Learnin, Sep 20, 2012.

  1. Learnin

    Learnin Member

    It came to me as I awoke this morning. It's simple but it makes all the sense in the world.

    When John took Fleet straight to the broken window, it is clear that John wanted Fleet to see it before discovering the body. When John claimed he had broken the window to gain access to the house, it is clear that John was saying to Fleet: "I got into my house that way, Fleet, so an intruder could have gotten into the house that way."

    John's fib was meant to bait...to lead friends and investigators toward an intruder entering through that window....it was brilliant....except for one thing. HOW DID YOU GO ABOUT GETTING INTO THE WINDOW WELL JOHN?
    This is why ST and TT grilled John about going through that window...I don't think they bought it.

    For me, the only question that remains:

  2. Elle

    Elle Member

    Many times, I have thought the ransom note was written long before John Ramsey ever set eyes on it, Learnin, because of the practise notes having been written on Patsy's pad. One has to think of John Ramsey being a powerful business man, with the thought coming into our heads John Ramsey would never have condoned a War and Peace ransom note. Having said this! He did condone it, with Patsy making the phone call, not John, the business man. Time was of the essence!

    With JonBenét already dead, with the time given by the coroner as approximately after 11:00 pm on the 26th December, 1996. I cannot see Patsy Ramsey carrying JonBenét's body, now a dead weight, performing the finishing touches herself.

    Whatever went on between John and Patsy that fateful night, it worked, didn't it? They were never arrested!
  3. koldkase

    koldkase FFJ Senior Member

    Oh, gosh, I didn't see this thread before I posted on this topic on the other thread where we were having this discussion, learning. Sorry.

    I was thinking last night maybe we should start a thread on it. Should we copy some of those posts here?
  4. Learnin

    Learnin Member

    Good idea! This discussion needs it's own separate thread. I think you've raised some real good questions. It's obvious to me, now, that John didn't come in through that window because he couldn't even tell LE how he did it.
  5. Learnin

    Learnin Member

    John was even evasive about whether or not the window had been fixed. He stated he went down to that basement window, with Fleet, to see if the window had been broken again if it had been fixed....looking for new pieces of glass.

    He was evasive about the whole thing in case LE was able to button down a few facts about that window.
  6. Cranberry

    Cranberry Member

    The broken window

    JR was surprised to find out that FW had been down to the basement before him. Was there a discrepancy about the window?
  7. Elle

    Elle Member

    I'm blaming this computer, KK. I had to do a search to find it right now (?).*blush*
  8. rashomon

    rashomon Member

    Yes. For Fleet White stated that the window had been closed but unlatched, whereas John stated that window had been slightly open and that he closed and latched it.
  9. rashomon

    rashomon Member

    Fibers from the black wool shirt which John had been wearing to the Whites' Christmas party were found in the oversized Bloomies underwear. Since this evidence links John directly to the staging of the crime scene, he probably became involved in the cover-up at an early stage, shortly after the headblow had been struck.
  10. Learnin

    Learnin Member

    Now. Fleet went down shortly after arriving, no? This means he went down before John, supposedly, went down around 10 a.m. This means that John was lying or Fleet was lying...but no sense in Fleet lying. I'm assuming that Fleet saw there was no glass lying around on the floor so he assumed the kidnapper had not come in through that way and did not inform police.
    Last edited: Sep 21, 2012
  11. Learnin

    Learnin Member

    Is it possible someone used John's shirt to wipe the crotch area or has that been ruled out?
  12. rashomon

    rashomon Member

    I don't think it could be ruled out; I don't recall the exact words, but it is somewhere in the back of my mind that Patsy was asked about their laundry chute, whether John himself would handle his worn clothes, etc.
    As opposed to the brown cotton fibers and the blue terry-cloth fibers which were also found in this area, the black wool fibers could definitely be sourced to an item from the Ramsey household: the shirt which John been wearing during the hours preceding the horrific events on Christmas night.

    Wouldn't it have been possible to find out via lab examination
    - whether it was a fresh break or an older break;
    - whether the window had been broken from the inside or the outside?

    But iirc, neither S. Thomas nor J. Kolar mention in their books whether the broken glass was examined in detail and what the results were.
    Last edited: Sep 22, 2012
  13. Elle

    Elle Member

    This is more believable than the concocted tale of John coming through the window, Learnin.
  14. Karen

    Karen Member

    Neither one of them put everything they know into their books. They are both withholding information, in some cases the same information.
    Of course the lab knows everything about that window there is to know. So do Thomas and Kolar. That information must have been included in Grand Jury testimony since neither one of them wrote about it, so they probably can't.

    But this should tell us one thing at least.

    If it were a red herrring and things
    happened just the way JR said they did, and proof was borne out in the lab then this window wouldn't be much of an issue would it? I mean, it would be able to be discussed and written about in books if JR's story were true and the lab results revealed the same evidence as JR's story, the window should be a non issue. But now we find that nobody is talking about it in any books or anything. Something is up with that window and the lack of information from anybody proves it.
  15. zoomama

    zoomama Active Member

    When I first saw the video from that Daily Beast article I watched it with my mouth open actually. The cobweb blowing in the breeze while still attached to the window frame; The messy area all around the hallways and window area; the realization that what we had previously been led to believe was the same area now all crowded and littered with junk. I think many of us here felt the same way. We had been so mislead by Smit and Co. And now that darn window is one of the main topics of discussion. When was it broken? by whom and how long ago? did anyone really come in through that window long ago or just that night? Seeing all the debris along the bottom of the window well it is difficult to imagine that anyone could have and not bring in all sorts of dirt and leaves.

    Was it really just a broken window that came in handy for an excuse? Will we ever know the truth? Hard to know.
  16. Elle

    Elle Member

    I agree with what you're saying here, Karen. Chief Kolar also had to be careful what he said on Tricia's broadcast. He didn't give answers he knew would cause trouble for him. It's frustrating when you know important information is being held back.
  17. Elle

    Elle Member

    I think you have already answered your own question zm. It was really just a broken window which came in handy for an excuse! I doubt we'll ever hear the real truth from John Ramsey!
  18. Britt

    Britt FFJ Senior Member

    Okay, sorry if this is a dumb question but it's been bugging me for a while and I haven't seen any detailed explanation anywhere:

    I've studied the photos and video of the window and cobwebs, and I see the pieces/strings of cobwebs that are stuck to the jagged glass where the break occurred.

    What I don't understand is how those little strings prove that the break was old. It appears that cobwebs were probably stuck all over the window area (before the break) so why isn't it possible that the window could be broken and there could be pieces/remnants of the cobwebs still stuck to the remaining glass?

    Cobwebs are sticky and stringy. I don't see how breaking a hole in the window would wipe the window clean of all of the pieces of the cobwebs. I don't see a full, undisturbed web constructed in those jagged edges - only random strings. Why does this mean the break was old? Couldn't it mean, rather, that the preexisting web was broken along with the window pane?

    Another thought: if the break did happen before that night, I wonder if any of those shelves/racks were parked in front of the window, hiding it. I recall the neighbor's husband saying he heard the sound of metal scraping on concrete (or something like that)... could it have been one of those shelves/racks being moved away from the window and over to another wall? Purpose being, to stage an intruder break-in.
  19. Elle

    Elle Member

    I think these are very good questions, Britt. I have a big spider who spins a web at the corner of our patio door, next to the light. On a regular basis I sweep it away because I can't stand spiders and hate to see insects caught in a web. If I didn't do this regularly, this web would be covered in dust from the trees and the flying insects would be able to walk on it.

    Probably the dust on the Ramsey web came from the trees too, but as you said not necessarily old, because if I left this web alone, it would be covered in dust. I have to wipe our picnic table every day because of the dust. So ...your question is not a dumb one, Britt.[​IMG]

    About the sound of scraping metal, I doubt if it had been the shelves, the sound would have been heard by a neighbour, but it could have been John Ramsey making that sound himself by lifting the actual grate in the basement room for this purpose alone - hoping a neighbour would hear it! (?).
  20. DeeDee

    DeeDee Member

    There are a few things that could have caused the "metal scraping concrete" sound. One thing could have been someone moving the paint cans in the woneceller to make room for JB's body. The other was moving the large piece of sheet metal that had been in there, too. Either one would make that sound on the concrete floor.
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