Will Something Be Done In This Case? Is Schiller In Trouble?

Discussion in 'Justice for JonBenet Discussion - Public Forum' started by Tricia, Jul 7, 2006.

  1. YumYum012

    YumYum012 Member

    Here's another interesting Matt Sebastian article from Dec 2001:


    In it he suggests that some Grand Jurors have contacted the press to get some of their stories out ... only to be rebuffed by the reporters. Here's the reference from Matt's story:

    In the more than two years since the grand jury inquest wrapped up, no juror has gone public. But this year, sources told the Daily Camera, at least three have tested the waters — only to be rebuffed by unwilling listeners who feared prosecution.

    Perhaps Schiller let them talk to him ... at his own potential peril. Peril? Here's what Matt said:

    People have good reason not to talk to the Ramsey jurors.

    Colorado law forbids grand jurors from discussing an investigation until an indictment is announced or a report released. Neither happened in the Ramsey case.

    Furthermore, Boulder District Judge Daniel C. Hale issued an order on the first day the grand jury met in the Ramsey case that bars anyone from contacting the jurors about their service.

    And on the jury's last day, Judge Morris Sandstead reiterated that order. In his discharge to the jurors, Sandstead reminded the panel that "the oath of secrecy that you swore at the time that you began your grand jury service remains in effect."

    Any violation of the order, either by jurors or people attempting to talk to jurors, will result in criminal contempt charges, Sandstead warned.

    And Mike Kane had THIS to say:

    The main purpose of grand jury secrecy has always been to keep witnesses candid," Kane said. "There's almost a compact with witnesses that when they come in, what they say is not going to breach those four walls.

    And Matt gives a hint as to what might happen IF the press talked to a Grand Juror:

    Should jurors decide to disregard the court order and discuss the Ramsey case, they wouldn't be targeted by prosecutors, said Bill Nagel, Boulder County's assistant district attorney. Instead, any contempt charges would be levied by Chief Judge Roxanne Bailin, who oversaw the grand jury.

    The charges carry a penalty of fines and jail time.

    "When there's information to believe someone violated a court order, the court usually issues a 'show cause' order," Nagel said. "In effect, they'd be saying, 'Come on in and give me your side of the story.'"

    Legal experts say that rarely happens.

    It didn't two years ago when Daily Camera reporters interviewed four former grand jurors about the failed investigation of the 1983 slaying of Sid Wells.

    The Camera published the jurors' comments — some critical of the district attorney's handling of the case — in four separate articles. Nothing happened.

    Nor did anyone react when a Camera reporter contacted alternates on the Ramsey jury after their dismissal.

    It's a good article, with much more of interest ... well worth reading in full.

  2. YumYum012

    YumYum012 Member

    I just want to reiterate this point so that there is no misunderstanding ... the Matt Sebastian article linked to in my last post is EXCEPTIONAL. It's LONG, and is FILLED with GREAT STUFF ... from top to bottom.


    Here it is again:


  3. Barbara

    Barbara FFJ Senior Member

    One also has to wonder if this grand juror was paid by Schiller, et al?

    Is that illegal???

    Perhaps, for the right price, some others will speak out. It seems in this case, money is the only motivation for so many.

    If it's good enough for Schiller, it's good enough for anyone I would think
  4. Elle

    Elle Member

    Isn't it amazing,Barbara, these jurors have to shut up, and yet District Attorney Alex Hunter supplied Lawrence Schiller with Detective Steve Thomas' police notes for his damned book. There is something far wrong with this system? Why wasn't Alex Hunter hauled over the coals for this endeavour? Was he untouchable?
  5. Barbara

    Barbara FFJ Senior Member

    Alex Hunter should be placed in a public pillary in front of Tricia's house.

    It truly is amazing Elle. Only in Boulder, and as blatant as it is, would anyone get away with it.

    I'm beginning to think of Boulder as a third world country, separate and apart from the rest of the world.
  6. Sabrina

    Sabrina Member

    The new Globe includes the grand juror's photo from a screen capture of the Schiller show with her name, Michelle Czopek, underneath.
    Last edited: Jul 7, 2006
  7. Tricia

    Tricia Administrator Staff Member

    Thanks Sabrina.

    I have every reason to believe that it is true. Keenan is upset AND she had no idea that Schiller spoke, on camera, with a grand juror until now.

    Don't you think it's odd that the sitting D.A. in a case known around the world doesn't know what is going on under her own nose?
  8. Elle

    Elle Member

    Courtesy of Little:

    From The Globe: Grand Jury Member, Michelle Czopec

    Attached Files:

  9. Moab

    Moab Admin Staff Member

    Ola pepito...si...I think it is odd...so is senora Lacy-Keenan, but this is Boulder remember...land of the free!
  10. Jayelles

    Jayelles Alert Viewer in Scotland

    The thing that bothers me most about the Grand Juror's words is that now, any parent who kills their child will know that if they make it look especially brutal, there will be a chance that they'll get off on the grounds that "no parent would do this".
    Last edited: Jul 8, 2006
  11. The Punisher

    The Punisher Member

    You're right! It also means that the prosecutors didn't do their job in making the case that she COULD have done it!

    I demand the same right as Schiller!
  12. Elle

    Elle Member

    One wonders, Jay, just what world these jurors were living in, the present one?

    I think it's time they were all lined up again and told "THEY FAILED to find justice for JonBenét Ramsey."
  13. The Punisher

    The Punisher Member

    "One wonders, Jay, just what world these jurors were living in, the present one?"

    Too bad Ron Walker wasn't there. But the GJ isn't alone in failing her. The responsiblilty falls on the DA,ultimately.
  14. Sabrina

    Sabrina Member

    I guess the jury never heard of Teresa Knorr or Darlie Routier
  15. Cherokee

    Cherokee FFJ Senior Member

    Hey, Sabrina, glad to see you posting. :)

    The Grand Jury went against every protocol for jury decision. A jury is not to use emotions or subjective thinking when considering the evidence. When someone says "so-and-so" could not have possibly committed a crime ... they are using subjective reasoning governed by pre-conceived ideas instead of making decisions based on objective rational thought.

    It's an absolute disgrace.

    We've come up against this so many times in the Ramsey case. People have said over and over again ... "I just don't believe Patsy (or the Ramseys) could be involved."

    They just don't BELIEVE? On the basis of what? Evidence or emotion? They have a pre-conceived idea of who could be responsible and a pre-conceived idea of Patsy and/or the Ramseys. Their rational mind is clouded by their refusal to let go of their prejudices for the Ramseys. They will make up and follow every cockamamie theory under the sun in order to exhonerate the Ramseys and make it mesh with their pre-conceived notions of who could be guilty.

    It is this refusal, coupled with the corruption in Boulder, that sank the Ramsey case. No jury is going to convict a wealthy, well-connected "Christian" beauty queen just like no jury would have convicted Marilyn Van Durber's wealthy, well-connected "Christian" father of incest, yet he was guilty of that crime. Marilyn knew people wouldn't believe her because they thought her father just wasn't that kind of person.

    As people have said before, Ted Bundy got away with serial murder because people had no clue what he was like away from them.

    That is the key. We are not with other people 24/7, and no one was with the Ramseys when JonBenet died. We don't KNOW what went on in their house behind closed doors. And if I hear ONE MORE TIME, there was no prior pathology, I'm going to scream.

    There doesn't have to be KNOWN prior pathology for horrific accidents to happen. Furthermore, there is always the FIRST time. And sometimes it's the LAST.
  16. Tricia

    Tricia Administrator Staff Member

    Does anyone know if there will be a transcript of this show available?

    If not...does anyone want to earn a bit of extra dough to transcribe it for me?
  17. twinkiesmom

    twinkiesmom Member

    <<The thing that bothers me most about the Grand Juror's words is that now, any parent who kills their child will know that if they make it look especially brutal, there will be a chance that they'll get off on the grounds that "no parent would do this".>>

    That would only work in Boulder. In my state (IL), the parents are arrested first and investigated later.
  18. Greenleaf

    Greenleaf FFJ Senior Member

    Hunter's little secret..locked up forever

    Grand Jury: A jury that chiefly examines accusations of crime made against persons and if the evidence warrants makes formal charges on which the accused persons are later tried.
    and this:

    District Attorney: A public official who prosecutes cases for a state or federal government.

    The Grand Jury is an integral part of our judicial system. The citizens on a grand jury are usually ordinary people, with little or no knowledge of the finer points of law. It is the duty of the District Attorney to persuade them to indict or not to indict, in any particular case.
    It seems obvious to me that AH had a political agenda that led him towards the adamant stance he took against handing down indictments in the Ram case.
    The Grand Jurors are solely dependent upon the information that the D.A. presents or allows others to present. He is the absolute authority in that room, for the duration of their service.
    He elected to show gruesome crime picture photos, for a specific purpose. We are not privy to the comments he made as those photos were being shown. A good guess is that he squirmed and grimaced in a most visible manner. The psychology of that would bespeak volumes as to how the jury responded.
    Sublingually, it flashes into the mind: “No way could a parent do that to a child.â€
    I predict that future historians, who study this case, will probably include, somewhere in their manuscript, “No way could a D.A. have acted with such total disregard for justice.â€

  19. The Punisher

    The Punisher Member

    I guess this is what they mean when they talk about people too stupid to get out of jury duty.
  20. 1000 Sparks

    1000 Sparks Active Member

    Unless I missed it

    Is Lacey aware of what Shiller and GJ member did?

    Shouldn't she be notified and ask "what are you gonna do about it"????????

    and ask if anyone can talk now including Paugh..
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