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Thread: Patsy Is Dead

  1. #85

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cherokee

    Everyone in law enforcement and all other analysts have said the crime scene was staged. Crime scenes are only staged in order to point away from the truth. An intruder would have no reason to take the time and effort to stage a crime scene.

    As BobC (a poster here) has said many times, no one stages a crime scene in another person's house.
    And.....no one walks into an unlocked house in the middle of the night, wakes a child, tells her to take her stuffed dolphin with her, leads or (more probably, picks her up) her across the street from her home, opens and climbs though a window with the child, rapes her repeatedly and then buries her alive under the back deck.....and no one ever detects her presence...not even the dogs brought in by LE...until the scumbag tells them where she is and how he did it.

    Everything about the Jessica Lunsford case pointed to her family early on. Especially, when it was discovered that her GF had an arrest record of rape. And most of the male members of her family have a criminal history. But, none of her family were involved in her murder. It was John Cooey....right across the street and right under their noses.

    Then there was; Polly Klaus, Elizabeth Smart, and many, many others.

    Now, who would have thunk' it?

  2. #86
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    Red face

    Quote Originally Posted by Watching You
    Been there, done that - a zillion times. Why bother?
    Ditto... Need to gotta work tonight.

    VP, Ginja and the rest of Y'All who have been taking a break.
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  3. #87
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    Default Patsy Ramsey is Gone, Yet the Mystery Remains.

    Yesterday, I learned (as did we all) that Patsy Ramsey succumbed to cancer at her father's home in Marietta, Georgia.

    The mystery as to who killed JonBenet Ramsey continues.

    There was no "deathbed confession" that we know of, no declarations made public (as of now) regarding Patsy Ramsey's final hours. No final words on the death of her daughter which occured almost one decade ago.

    Nor is there any finality to JonBenet's murder. No justice.

    I wasn't surprised to hear that cancer had claimed Patsy. Yet the "umbrella of uncertainty" surrounding the killing of JonBenet still haunts the Ramsey family in both life and death.

    It is hard to believe that with Patsy gone things will become clearer. In any trial for murder of JonBenet, Patsy Ramsey would have been prominent in the execution of said case. From the first stonewalling, first flight to Atlanta, through press conferences and lawyers and television appearances, Patsy has been the prime figure in all ways in the mystery surrounding JonBenet's murder.

    Now that Patsy is gone, it becomes more difficult to divine the truth in the JonBenet affair vis a vis jury trial.

    Perhaps any information given from family or other sources after Patsy's death are even less reliable as one of the main figures in this case will no longer have a testimony in the matter.

    This archetypical whodunit passes into an ever more enigmatic fog with the death of Patsy Ramsey.

    There is no statute of limitation on murder...or mystery.
    Dunvegan
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  4. #88
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    Default Trip Demuth Weighs in on Patsy's Death

    Former prosecutor: Patsy Ramsey unfairly targeted

    The death of Patsy Ramsey is a "terribly sad" end to a woman who most likely was unfairly accused of her own daughter's murder, according to the prosecutor originally assigned to the case.

    "Unfortunately the evidence suggests an innocent person tragically lost her child, was targeted by police and spent the last few years of her life trying to defend her name," said Trip Demuth, former Boulder County prosecutor, on Saturday.

    On the day JonBenet Ramsey's body was found, Dec. 26, 1996, DeMuth was assigned full time to the case. DeMuth and sheriff's Detective Steve Ainsworth, on loan for the investigation, found themselves at odds with the Boulder Police Department after they began supporting the theory that an intruder may have killed JonBenet Ramsey.

    In the ensuing months, they often butted heads with the Boulder Police Department and were even investigated by the state for allegedly stealing secrets from the police department's $35,000 JonBenet Ramsey "war room."

    In 1997, Boulder police believed someone gained access to a computer containing sensitive material in the case. CBI investigators seized computers at the homes of DeMuth and Ainsworth. However, a week later police said the war room's computer had suffered a malfunction and that a break-in had never occurred.

    DeMuth and fellow prosecutor Peter Hofstrom were removed in 1998 after former Gov. Roy Romer suggested that "new blood" was needed in the investigation.

    In April 2003, U.S. District Judge Julie Carnes of Atlanta ruled there is more evidence pointing to an intruder as the person who killed JonBenet, than there is evidence implicating Patsy Ramsey.

    The 93-page ruling was the result of a civil defamation suit filed by freelance journalist Chris Wolf against the Ramseys, after they publicly named him as a possible suspect in their daughter's death

    In the lawsuit Wolf claimed that Patsy Ramsey killed her daughter and was naming other suspects to shift attention away from her. To win the lawsuit, Wolf would have to prove that Patsy Ramsey was involved in her death.

    Instead of proving Patsy Ramsey's guilt, however, the first judicial analysis of the case seemed to suggest she was innocent.

    Shortly after Carnes' decision, District Attorney Mary Lacy issued a statement saying she agreed with Carnes' assessment. Lacy's announcement drew the ire of Boulder Police Chief Mark Beckner, who said in his own statement that he was not going to debate the weight of the evidence in the case.

    DeMuth said Saturday that while the evidence suggests the Ramseys had nothing to do with the death of the daughter, a trained prosecutor never completely concedes "who didn't do it" until someone else is convicted in court.


    Coming Sunday: B.J. Plasket weighs in.

    http://denver.yourhub.com/Story.aspx?contentid=97872
    It's probably too late to get justice for JonBenét. Maybe it always was. But knowing where things went wrong is the first step to not going there again. **-- Alan Prendergast-Dec 21, 2006--**

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  5. #89

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jazz
    And.....no one walks into an unlocked house in the middle of the night, wakes a child, tells her to take her stuffed dolphin with her, leads or (more probably, picks her up) her across the street from her home, opens and climbs though a window with the child, rapes her repeatedly and then buries her alive under the back deck.....and no one ever detects her presence...not even the dogs brought in by LE...until the scumbag tells them where she is and how he did it.

    Everything about the Jessica Lunsford case pointed to her family early on. Especially, when it was discovered that her GF had an arrest record of rape. And most of the male members of her family have a criminal history. But, none of her family were involved in her murder. It was John Cooey....right across the street and right under their noses.

    Then there was; Polly Klaus, Elizabeth Smart, and many, many others.

    Now, who would have thunk' it?
    One always has to look at the whole picture if one wants to draw comparisons, not just at some aspects.
    Do you know about any case where the perp left a dead child in the house together with a ransom note? A ransom note with which he would only have left behind additional evidence? A RN which he wrote in the child's home? A kidnapper who took the time to feed the child pineapple and then waited for an hour?
    A perp who placed duct tape on a dead child's mouth? A kidnapper who could not even tie a ligature which functioned properly? The list is endless and points only in one direction: that JonBenet was killed by a family member.

  6. #90
    BobC is offline Poster of the EON - Fabulous Inimitable Transcript and Book Reviewer
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    BJ "wieghs in?" That's priceless--is it a kilo?

  7. #91
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    Default All that "stage setting", rashomon...

    ...we have to ask ourselves, "What would be the motive of such elaborate stage setting."

    Although the fact that "elaborate" was a defining character of Patsy Ramsey has weighed heavily in the speculation regarding "who and why."

    Very funny, BobC...how are you? Witty as usual, I see.
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  8. #92
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    Default Patsy Ramsey to be buried near JonBenet

    Patsy Ramsey to be buried near JonBenet

    DENVER - Friends of the family have told 9NEWS that Patsy Ramsey will be buried next to daughter JonBenet in Atlanta. Ramsey died at her home in Atlanta with her husband, son and other family members with her. Family friends confirmed her death to 9NEWS. Ramsey had been critically ill due to a recurrence of cancer.

    Services will be held Thursday and it is undetermined if they will be private or public.

    http://9news.com/acm_news.aspx?OSGNA...7-c589c01ca7bf







    It's probably too late to get justice for JonBenét. Maybe it always was. But knowing where things went wrong is the first step to not going there again. **-- Alan Prendergast-Dec 21, 2006--**

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  9. #93
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    Originally Posted by Watching You
    OMG, I can't believe a mother would pull her car over, go to her trunk and pull out a gun and put a bullet into all three of her little kids. But, she did. I can't believe a mother could drive her car into a lake with her helpless babies strapped into their car seats. But, she did. I can't believe a mother would drown five of her kids in a bathtub, but she did. I can't believe parents sexually abuse their children. But, they do. I can't believe parents kill and maim their kids. But, they do.

    **Of course they do. I have acknowledged that. But there are too many difference scenios and not enough physical or circumstantial evidence to nail down a motive or identity of the perp.
    You obviously don't think it's odd that the perp spent hours inside the house and left behind no trace of himself. And, please don't bring out the old tired DNA spin. I know better.

    There is no profile for a parent who murders her own child.Perhaps not. Maybe I should have used another term. There are no at-large perps in this case. There is no evidence of any intruder in that house that night, regardless of the garbage Lou Smit has fed the public. Patsy Ramsey is all over that ransom note, and the Ramseys did everything they could do to avoid cooperating with the police right after the murder. That's the truth, and all the rest is BS.

    **I could leave my home unlocked without the security system armed. An known person could enter and kill everyone in it and walk out without leaving any personal identity markers behind. Could he not? Sure he could. There are too many unsolved cases where those are the exact obstacles to solving them.
    Sure, anyone could walk into an unlocked home. The Ramseys' home was not unlocked, though, was it. This unidentified-after-nearly-10-years perp supposedly wriggled down a cement opening, contorted himself to reach down and inside to open a previously broken (by Ramsey account) window, jumped into the basement, and laid in wait for the Ramseys to return home - all this without a scratch on his body or a hair being yanked out of his head or cutting himself on the broken window. What a magnificent feat.

    Of course, this perp would have had to know that no one was inside the home at the time and that the Ramseys would indeed be returning that evening, at which time he could just sneak upstairs in that big house and silently steal JB from her bed, just knowing she would be silent while he did all this. Oh wait, I forgot the stun gun that he used to silence her. Of course, that defies all logic, since stun guns are extremely painful, and JB would have screamed her head off.

    In order for the perp to have so much knowledge about the Ramseys' personal lives that s/he knew their schedule on Christmas day, s/he would have to be intimately acquainted with the family - at least, that's where logic takes me. Since every possible acquaintance and friend and relative of the family was DNA tested, even including JB's friends, and no match to the CODIS DNA was found among them, that sort of leaves out that scenario.

    That leaves possible enemies who may have been stalking the Ramseys without their knowledge. But, all those possibilities were covered, too. The Ramseys threw out a few names of people who might carry grudges against them, but that didn't pan out either, leaving only a stranger abduction, who would not have that kind of personal information about the Ramseys' schedule that night.

    All the could haves should haves and must haves whirling around within the Ramsey spin machine is just that. If one takes the time to reason it out, none of it makes sense, and that should be the first clue that something is awry in their myriad stories.




    Sure, Patsy's handwriting was a possible match...but so was Burke's. And they were never positively identified as the author....only that they COULD have written it.
    Nobody else came close, and nobody else could copy Patsy's personality that was so obvious (to me) in the note. Either Patsy's own sister (or mother, I can't remember which) stated that someone must have forged Patsy's writing in the note. What better acknowledgement than one from a member of her own family that the handwriting looked like Patsy's? And, how could a stranger forge her handwriting so that even her own family thought it looked like hers? How could anyone who knew Patsy do it consistently for three pages?

    Almost all the forensics identified inside the home were there because all the family members left them there. It's where they lived. With the possible exception of some unidentified boot prints in the basement.
    The reports I have read say the boot prints are not unidentified and could very well be Burke's. At any rate, it is impossible to date that print. It is useless as evidence, because it could have been there a very long time before the murder occurred.

    I disagree with your analysis that any possibility in this case in BS.
    That's your privilege.



    I, nor anyone else, know with absolute certainty who killed Jon Benet. If one's mind is closed to the possibility of other persons outside of the family, then they will surely get away with murder. Because, as yet, no family member has been arrested after nearly 10 years. And don't think Boulder wouldn't love to nail the person/persons responsible.
    I never said I knew with absolute certainty who killed JonBenet. I don't know if Patsy killed her. I do believe, after nearly 10 years of research and interest in this case, that what happened that night started out with someone's striking out in a rage, or going too far otherwise, and accidentally mortally injuring JB. A cover-up followed, because the death happened during the commission of a crime, even if her death was not intended. That crime may have been Patsy's finally losing it after a very stressful day and smashing her daughter's head against something in a rage. It happens. That is felonious child abuse. It had to be staged as something else, obviously, because they couldn't say Patsy accidentally killed her daughter when she clobbered her.

    OR, it could have been JR who accidentally killed JB in some kinky sex game he was playing with her. Maybe another member of the family was involved in something that caused JB mortal injury. Whatever happened that night, it had to be covered up or someone would go to prison and the Ramsey name would be destroyed, along with all his millions. Nothing else explains the staging of the crime scene. The fact that JR destroyed the crime scene himself when he carried JB from the basement tells me he wasn't altogether sure he had done a good enough job staging the basement crime scene. Who could question a distraught father's actions, after all?

    I don't know who did it, but I am convinced it was someone inside the house. Contrary to the official disclaimer, I have never fully ruled out some kind of accident happening involving Burke. I haven't ruled out a couple other members of the family, as far as that's concerned, but my main focus is on the three known surviving members of the family who were in the house that night.

    You say that no family member has been arrested after nearly 10 years, but you don't mention the fact that no intruder has been arrested, either. All the Ramseys' investigators trying desperately to pin the death on an intruder have not been able to do so. It's not enough you think an intruder is involved - you think there may have been two intruders. That just boggles my mind - two intruders and no physical evidence they were ever inside the house. These guys are so good, they defy science.


    Well, I am not that emotional about any case of murder. It is not productive in the pursuit of justice.
    My emotional (as you put it) state of mind was not due to the JBR case, although I've been known to get intensely involved in discussion of the case over the past 9+ years. I am not especially emotional over anything right now, but I do have some added pressure due to the illness and care of my elderly mother. After dealing with neglectful and arrogant personnel in the hospital all day (you know, the kind who don't answer the bell, so Mom pees her pants after having been given Lasix in the morning, and the aide thinks it's okay that she sits in her wet pants, creating urine burn, blah, blah, along with other issues), my fuse was running short last evening. I am ready to pull her out of the hospital, once again, and bring her back home where I know she'll get the care she needs from her family.
    Keep me away from the wisdom which does not cry,
    the philosophy which does not laugh,
    and the greatness which does not bow before children.

    ---Kahlil Gibran---

  10. #94
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    Angry Sounds like a Ramsey to me.........

    "Well, I am not that emotional about any case of murder. It is not productive in the pursuit of justice."

    Soooooooooo, let me guess........tricking the cops into believing your child was kidnapped is more productive regarding justice?!

    Who left our FFJ door open?! Good Lord All Mighty......of all weekends.

    RR
    "Don't play dumb with me, RR! You're no good at it." The Punisher

    "Although no one is anticipating a prompt resolution to this long and much-detoured case, perhaps - just perhaps - might we see one of those moments “when a chance arrow of history scores a perfect bullseye on a deserving target”? Steve Thomas 2009

    "Justice hasn't had a chance so far. Anyone who doesn't have this as their prime goal, we'll have a falling out with." Fleet White - Time Magazine

    "What happens is that evil comes in," Fleet says. "If you don't have truth, all you have are lies, then what comes in is evil. And evil just does its thing. In the Ramsey case, it just did its thing, and it's eaten up so many people."

  11. #95
    BobC is offline Poster of the EON - Fabulous Inimitable Transcript and Book Reviewer
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    Hi Dunv--that was the single most evil statement I've ever made.

    Anyway--how ironic that Jameson is calling us evil, when she was the one who stabbed her little friend in the back by selling police transcripts to the national Enquirer. Whatever helps you sleep at night.

  12. #96
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    Default Talk about Needing Help at The Swamp.........

    Mame
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    06-25-06, 09:16 AM (EST)

    58. "RE: Patsy Dead"
    In response to message #57

    What a courageous woman Patsy was! I can't imagine what it took to fight such a horrible disease, and lose a child at the same time.

    She was one of the most maligned public figures of our time. Due to the inept, unethical practices of Boulder's cops, Patsy endured a public witch hunt fueled by tabloids and a media looking to the bottom line...not justice.

    Fortunately, a brilliant, unassuming guy named Lou Smit wouldn't stay quiet. His SCIENCE (to those smart enough to understand it) trumped them all and brought truth.

    Bless Patsy, and her family for enduring such horrible pain.

    :sadie: :wind:

    How cute.....mame finally speaks the truth........now maybe she will tell all of us about what she did with the MysteryWoman Money before she blows a plaskett/gasket on her way back out. She was a flucking fake from Day One and for me to see her proving me right - once again - has made my day - Thanks mame!

    Still Standing-
    RR
    "Don't play dumb with me, RR! You're no good at it." The Punisher

    "Although no one is anticipating a prompt resolution to this long and much-detoured case, perhaps - just perhaps - might we see one of those moments “when a chance arrow of history scores a perfect bullseye on a deserving target”? Steve Thomas 2009

    "Justice hasn't had a chance so far. Anyone who doesn't have this as their prime goal, we'll have a falling out with." Fleet White - Time Magazine

    "What happens is that evil comes in," Fleet says. "If you don't have truth, all you have are lies, then what comes in is evil. And evil just does its thing. In the Ramsey case, it just did its thing, and it's eaten up so many people."



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