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  1. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeeDee View Post
    We don't know for a FACT that the Rs called any of their friends over to the house that night before the 911 call. If the phone records for that night were made known, they might show phone calls to these people, including R lawyers and/or anyone from the Governor's office or Lockheed.
    However, even if this was discovered, we still don't know for a fact that any of them came to the house. No neighbors reported seeing cars, though the Rs may have been prepared for that and told them to park on another street. By that time, it may have been 3 in the morning or so and much less likely that neighbors would be awake, but of course, car doors are notoriously noisy in the dead of night.

    But I bet they did- or at least some of them.
    According to the Steve Thomas' information I just posted DeeDee, they did! I'm sure he was a very good detective and would have found out if they hadn't!
    elle: The RST can't handle the truth!
    Just my opinion.

  2. #38
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    Thanks Elle and DeeDee. That "new" idea that I read about got me all stirred up. Thanks for the quote from ST book. The fact remains that the phone records if still in existence, could be a real eye opener.

    Too bad for me because that "new" theory helped solve a bunch of things for me. Oh well.
    "When are we going to get our heads out of the sand and understand that sometimes really nice people who look good on the outside are dastardly on the inside." Wendy Murphy, former prosecutor, MA

  3. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elle_1 View Post
    According to the Steve Thomas' information I just posted DeeDee, they did! I'm sure he was a very good detective and would have found out if they hadn't!
    You misread me. I was not referring to Patsy calling her friend over AFTER the 911 call or AFTER Officer French arrived. Your post mentions Officer French observing Patsy calling her friends, which would prove these calls were made AFTER Patsy called police, not before.
    I am referring to the Rs calling friends over AFTER JB was killed but BEFORE the 911 call. Maybe 2-3-4 o'clock in the morning. THIS information can only be determined by release of the R phone records and I don't believe they were ever released.
    This is my Constitutionally protected OPINION. Please do not copy or take it anywhere else.

  4. #40
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    Sorry DeeDee! I just read your post again. You do state "before" the 911 call. I don't ever remember discussing this with anyone here before. Should be interesting right enough! Whose post were you replying to here, and I will go back and read it, thank you (?).

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by DeeDee
    We don't know for a FACT that the Rs called any of their friends over to the house that night before the 911 call. If the phone records for that night were made known, they might show phone calls to these people, including R lawyers and/or anyone from the Governor's office or Lockheed.
    However, even if this was discovered, we still don't know for a fact that any of them came to the house. No neighbors reported seeing cars, though the Rs may have been prepared for that and told them to park on another street. By that time, it may have been 3 in the morning or so and much less likely that neighbors would be awake, but of course, car doors are notoriously noisy in the dead of night.

    But I bet they did- or at least some of them.

    elle: The RST can't handle the truth!
    Just my opinion.

  5. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elle_1 View Post
    Sorry DeeDee! I just read your post again. You do state "before" the 911 call. I don't ever remember discussing this with anyone here before. Should be interesting right enough! Whose post were you replying to here, and I will go back and read it, thank you (?).

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by DeeDee
    We don't know for a FACT that the Rs called any of their friends over to the house that night before the 911 call. If the phone records for that night were made known, they might show phone calls to these people, including R lawyers and/or anyone from the Governor's office or Lockheed.
    However, even if this was discovered, we still don't know for a fact that any of them came to the house. No neighbors reported seeing cars, though the Rs may have been prepared for that and told them to park on another street. By that time, it may have been 3 in the morning or so and much less likely that neighbors would be awake, but of course, car doors are notoriously noisy in the dead of night.

    But I bet they did- or at least some of them.

    It was a post of Zoomama's. She asked if we knew 100% fact that the Rs called friends over BEFORE the 911 call. When I replied, I forgot to use the "Quote" function.
    This is my Constitutionally protected OPINION. Please do not copy or take it anywhere else.

  6. #42
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    #32

    zoomama wrote:

    Elle,
    Do we know for a 100% fact that Patsy called her friends over right after the 911 call?


    As you can see DeeDee I got caught up in this question from zm!

    elle: The RST can't handle the truth!
    Just my opinion.

  7. #43

    Default JR golf clubs

    Quote Originally Posted by koldkase View Post
    Just to illustrate how pathetic that NE claim that an intruder left the bat behind is, here's a diagram of the house with the location of the "exit" basement window and the "mysterious bat" shown:



    So is Team Ramsey now saying that the intruder put the suitcase under the window to exit, changed his mind for some reason, then took his women's softball bat all the way back upstairs and exited the butler door, tossing the bat at the crime scene for some other dumb reason?

    Or are they saying the intruder went out the butler door, tossed his women'ts softball bat, then went back in and down to the basement, crawling onto the unstable suitcase and out that window to leave--again?

    Or did he just go out the basement window via the suitcase and then ran around the house to drop the bat, then sauntered off?

    There is no limit to how ridiculous the stories from Team Ramsey are, is there?

    Looking at the picture of JR golf clubs made me think how odd where
    they are located.

    I know my hubby plays golf...he always keeps his in the garage..easier
    to get them in the car.

    Maybe he didn't play very often?

  8. #44

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    Quote Originally Posted by kk View Post
    Looking at the picture of JR golf clubs made me think how odd where
    they are located.

    I know my hubby plays golf...he always keeps his in the garage..easier
    to get them in the car.

    Maybe he didn't play very often?

    Yea, that bat sure rested in about the last place you would expect if it was actually placed there by the perp. What's that grey area just behind the kitchen?

  9. #45
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    Telephone records also would reveal if John called LM Security. I worked for defense contractors for about 40 years and, if my daughter had been kidnapped (by a "foreign faction"), I sure as hell would have called my company security before calling the police. If I couldn't get security (but I'm sure I could have) I'd have called my boss to get him to raise security. I have no doubt that security would have called the FBI. Also, it would be interesting to know if he called his lawyer before or after her body was found.
    “Politicians are like diapers. They both need changing regularly and for the same reason.” -- Anonymous

  10. #46

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    Quote Originally Posted by Shadow View Post
    Telephone records also would reveal if John called LM Security. I worked for defense contractors for about 40 years and, if my daughter had been kidnapped (by a "foreign faction"), I sure as hell would have called my company security before calling the police. If I couldn't get security (but I'm sure I could have) I'd have called my boss to get him to raise security. I have no doubt that security would have called the FBI. Also, it would be interesting to know if he called his lawyer before or after her body was found.
    This is why I have never been able to get past Alex Hunter burying those phone records by refusing to get a subpoena. No way do I believe that anyone whose daughter was believed to be in the hands of kidnappers from a "small foreign faction" would call the BPD instead of his company, an international defense contractor with a set and well-vetted protocol for just that kind of contingency.

    It didn't happen like the Ramseys said it did, no way.

    "University of Colorado Law Professor Paul Campos declared the letter a 'reckless exoneration.' He went on to state, 'Everyone knows that relative immunity from criminal conviction is something money can buy.
    Apparently another thing it can buy is an apology for even being suspected of a crime you probably already would have been convicted of committing if you happened to be poor.'"
    FF: WRKJB?

    ~~~~~~~
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    3 Dimensional

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  11. #47

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    Quote Originally Posted by Learnin View Post
    Yea, that bat sure rested in about the last place you would expect if it was actually placed there by the perp. What's that grey area just behind the kitchen?
    First, a clarification, just in case it's confusing to others, as it's confusing to me when I see a post by "kk"; we are two different posters here--I'm koldkase, she/he is kk. So I'm not answering for kk, just me. :grin:

    You got me to thinking about that gray area in the floor plans between the kitchen and the butler's pantry. I realize I had somehow turned the kitchen around in my head because there was in fact a "kitchen window" with curtains between those two areas--i.e., the "window" was not to the outdoors.

    So then I got to thinking, not only is that odd, but as I look at the floor plan of the kitchen closer, I see that I was attributing that gray area to a countertop, but it's not, as you can see the countertops outlined in a much smaller space to scale with the rest of the kitchen. Then I see that the kitchen sinks are way to the right end of the kitchen, with a jutted out counter section between the sinks on the right and the stove and walk in fridge and ovens on the left. Very awkward. There's an entire countertop between the two critical cooking/prep areas, and that butts up to the "window" to the butler's pantry, with a difficult to reach space with a tiny vegtable sink in the corner. Odd kitchen entirely.

    Here you can compare two different floor plans. There is a photo in the case library of the kitchen where you can see the window and curtains, as well.

    Edited after looking at a closer kitchen photo of counter/window: I think the "gray space" is an outer wall that the Ramseys made an interior wall when they remodeled. I'm guessing they built the butler's pantry on the other side of the kitchen window, and some of that gray area is the countertop in the butler's pantry. I've seen that countertop before, but I'm having to look for a photo of the countertop in it. It might only be available in videos/programs on the case, but I know I've seen it. There is a long countertop just on the other side of the window, on the inner wall of the butler's pantry; the outer wall has the glass door to the outside. I'll post a kitchen photo I found that may clarify.



    Last edited by koldkase; November 19, 2010, 7:51 pm at Fri Nov 19 19:51:16 UTC 2010.

    "University of Colorado Law Professor Paul Campos declared the letter a 'reckless exoneration.' He went on to state, 'Everyone knows that relative immunity from criminal conviction is something money can buy.
    Apparently another thing it can buy is an apology for even being suspected of a crime you probably already would have been convicted of committing if you happened to be poor.'"
    FF: WRKJB?

    ~~~~~~~
    Bloomies underwear model:
    3 Dimensional

    ~~~~~~
    My opinions, nothing more.

  12. #48

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    Kitchen photos with window facing butler's pantry:

    The first two were taken after the Ramseys had moved out, I believe.





    This is a crime scene photo, taken that morning, I believe:


    "University of Colorado Law Professor Paul Campos declared the letter a 'reckless exoneration.' He went on to state, 'Everyone knows that relative immunity from criminal conviction is something money can buy.
    Apparently another thing it can buy is an apology for even being suspected of a crime you probably already would have been convicted of committing if you happened to be poor.'"
    FF: WRKJB?

    ~~~~~~~
    Bloomies underwear model:
    3 Dimensional

    ~~~~~~
    My opinions, nothing more.



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