A Must Read

No Elle--what I'm saying here is that even though ST reported this, Lee is confirming that the body was scrubbed down. Post Linn Wood, the media has been calling everything in ST's book "lies," but now we have the most respected forensic scientist in the world saying uh uh baby IT'S TRUE. Nobody is going to beat up on Henry Lee like they could ST because Lee is World Class. You think Wood's gonna go on TV and call Henry Lee a liar?!!

This is HUGE, Elle. This book marks a complete 180 degree turn for this case. Look at the big picture girl!

 

Nope Pope! To boil it down, Lee says JAR and had exactly seven hrs to make the complete round trip, while murdering JBR and getting all the way back home. He aslo said the police went through ALL the flights during that time period and JAR wasn't on any of them

 

Back to FW vs. JR

FW then took out a baseball bat and smacked JR upside his wide wide head!

Okay that was a lie. Anyway the whole thing ended when FW got it under control and took off, but the people who witnessed the whole thing were shocked at FW's behaviour. Frankly I'd have been ed as well if I were watching the Rams behaviour! Lee goes on to say that as it turned out, the rumours FW "got wind of" were true--the "loving family" were going on CNN!

 

BobC

Here is the passage I am referring to
page 135

When Christmas morning dawned , the Ramseys awoke , went downstairs, and exchanged their gifts. Melinda and John Andrew were than driven to the Denver airport, to return home to Atlanta to celebrate the rest of the holiday with their mother and her family.

When I read this Lee is clearly stating that John and Melinda were in Boulder X-mas morning.

It is only later that he goes with the party line.

 

Priceless

Oh--this is sweet. Look at the reason the R's gave for wanting to do the CNN thing:

1. They wanted to "address why it appeared they were avoiding the media."

2. They wanted to address rumors that they were "involved."

3. They wanted to explain why they hadn't been "completely cooperative" with Law enforcement.

That's it guys! Anybody want to take a stab at what is conspicuosly absent from this list?

 

I wonder if Patsy in a rage threw JonBenét into the bath tub because she had checked her at midnight for the usual wakeup call to go to the bathroom, found her in a mess and dragged her and threw her in, causing her to strike her head, or even strike her on the head with a hand held shower head while washing her down. Her hair was tied up in three places. I hardly think an intruder would do that either. More like her mother's doing!

Steve Thomas talks about Patsy telling police JB had a red top (found crimped up in JB's bathroom)...then later states it was a white one, the one she was found dead in..

This would account for her being scrubbed down. jmo

Until I can get the book, thanks for posting excerpts tonight, Bob!

 

Pope I am just quoting the book, man. Since absolutely NOTHING links JAR or Melinda to the murder, I am gonna go with Henry Lee. What's this "party line" bizzness? Do you have some information linking these two people to the murder that Henry Lee, Steve Thomas and John Eller are not aware of? I'm all ears.

 

Bob

I am hanging on to every word, as soon as I can get to them.

I'll have to start again in the a.m. - but I SO appreciate your commentary! Don't stop!

-an admirer

 

Pope,

According to "Death of Innocence" the Ramseys meet Melinda , Stewart Long, and John Andrew as they are leaving their own home to go to the Fernies, and they go into a van to talk (?).

Has Dr. Lee not made a mistake?

 

Elle

I don't think we'll ever know what really went down that night. Even Lee so far appears to be clueless as to what was REALLY the trigger for this attack. That's exactly what keeps me interested. Through all the lies over the years about John Ramsey being into kiddie porn and sex/torture parties and all the other nonsense, I strongly feel that nobody has gotten the trigger quite "right." One thing I feel confident about is that this was a RAGE KILLING. Classic overkill. The killer was out of control and used way more force than was necessary to kill a 6 YO. The question of course is what the hell prompted this attack?

 

Cnn

Now Lee goes into CNN reporter Cable's experience in interviewing the Ramseys. He said the R's answered questions on the way to the studio but that long periods of silence also occured en route. He noted they very much acted "like a team." Ramsey said he was speaking out now because they'd been feeling "isolated," wanted to thank people who "cared about them," and said " for our grief to resolve itself, we have to find out why this happened."

Stop right here. I am getting flashbacks to when I first saw this interview while channel surfing that night. I had no idea who these people were and didn't have a clue as to what they were talking about. As I listened, I felt uneasy and to tell the truth, most of the discomfort came from John Ramsey. Patsy seemed like a woman struggling to keep a stiff upper lip (and she was quite beautiful too) but John seemed callous--like he was using all the right words but something was just "off."

I swear to God, every so often I would see Patsy kind of glance at him, with a look that seemed like she despised him. I can't really put my finger on why I picked I felt that, but that's just how I felt on a gut level.

Now years later, I wonder if maybe Patsy resented the ease with which her husband could pull off this scam. Even Alex Hunter called him "the iceman." Even though I think Patsy is probably the one who flipped out and killed JBR, what I saw there on CNN was a woman devastated by what happened. There but for the grace of god and all that. But JR hit the stage with all the emotion and sincerity of a porn actor. I think he was in survival mode and even Patsy was shocked at how effortlessly he pulled it all off.

"We have to know why this happened." well John, you've got a three page ransom note telling you Exactly WHY. A better question is why you never mentioned the terrorist angle so clearly laid out in the note. The only direct word from the killer, and you didn't even mention it.

So maybe when JR was asking "why?' he was asking why did this horrendous incident have to occur in their lives. Especailly after losing his first daughter to a car accident. Any sane parent MUST be thinking they were caught in a bad dream. Why?

 

Elle and BobC

I think what has happened here is that I did stumble on a mistake of Lees'.

Because he clearly states in the early part of the chapter what the Ramsey Christmas morning was like and that it includes Melinda and JAR opening gifts.

BobC, I did not address you in a rude way, I simply asked for help in understanding what I was reading.

By "party line" I meant that as we know it to be "fact" in this case that both JR and Melinda were in Atlanta and had nothing to do with the murder of Jonbenet. Lee does state this later in the chapter and makes no further reference to his earlier statment that they were in Boulder. I guess even great doctors make mistakes. I know very well that Melinda and JAR were cleared!

Therefore I must conclude that Lee did mis-speak when he wrote they were in Boulder that morning.

Respectfully, pope/ rickamorti

 

sorry Pope

I wasn't meaning to be rude. It's just after 8 years of no evidence linking anybody but the three people in the home that night to the murder, I've grown a bit weary of explaining that JAR and Melinda were not even in the state. Sorry if I took that out on you. Yeah looks like Lee might have gotten that item wrong, but I am way more interested in the big picture than the minor mistakes by Lee or Thomas or whomever. I mean Robert Ressler even said once that it was a six page ransom note!

Sorry to seem snappish.

 

BobC

No harm done, I have also concluded that Dr. Lee did make a mistake.

 

Thanks pal! Goodnight!

 

For sure, Pope, you have zoned into this error. As I stated before, his son daughter and fiancé just arrived as the Rams were leaving to go to the Fernies.
Nowhere will you find their names mentioned as being in the Ramsey home on Christmas morning.

Good for you! Maybe you could report it to Dr. Lee himself, or even his publisher.

 

As for the logic of it all, what might have been the triggering agent for such a fit of rage, it is well documented in many cases of murder(s) throughout the regions of the Americas, how many stupid, small points of argument have escalated into uncontrollable rage and ultimately, a death. Things like a piece of food, a small amount of money, a beer, a baby not quieting his/her crying (despite "punishment", DUH!!!!!!!!!!!!), and a myriad of other LAME excuses have been claimed by killas for reasons why someone "deserved" it. And that is just the mentality that spawns such actions, the control freak/abuser personality type. The person who blames the victim for his/her very victimization, as if it were their fault.

I therefore postulate that with that mentality thoroughly ingrained within someone who may control or otherwise threaten another within their inner relationship circle into a compliance/conspiracy of silence, there needs to be no LOGICAL reason or trigger for such an outburst of anger. If this happened, it was probably not the first such abuse episode, and since polite society tends to squelch the publication of such interactions within their families ("What would the neighbors think?"), such a history would be unkown, but not asymptomatic to the trained eye.

Look no further for logical, probable cause. The crime was one of negative passion, and I'm sure that there's more violence where that came from.

Who is cold? Who is controlling? Who is overly clingy? Don't the children adhere to the (physical, not sexual) abuser the most? Who is overtly perfect, in a sort of convoluted, inverse way of C their own A's in the eyes of the public? Here is where the actions will still be evident.

 

LOL! Don't you ever change!

Is this what you mean? (It's all I can think of right now, if not PLEASE, fill us in)

1. Communicate directly with the person that killed our child.<!--StartFragment -->

 

Thanks Bob C.....so cool to have this info. Sorry I watched a movie and went to bed early...now I'm up early. And on a Saturday.

I first heard of the case a few days after it happened and I thought the Ramseys innocent....until, like BobC, I watched the interview. Patsy's references to OJ and Susan Smith struck me hinky...especially the 'getting on with their lives' and 'WHY' this happened.

Not who killed our daughter, the 'why' of it all. When they returned to Boulder, and staged the church scene and didn't talk to cops....my only conclusion was one of them did it.

Though I've always thought it was an accident.

Hooray for Dr. Lee!!!!!

 

Oh yeah...Hooray for Bob C! Book Reviewer Extrodinaire! :book: