Autopsy questions

You mean this Trip DeMuth??

quote: "But a coroner's definition of homicide doesn't mean a crime was committed, said Trip DeMuth, former Boulder County deputy district attorney. To a coroner, homicide means another human's actions caused the death, he said, much different from prosecutorial terms used in charging, such as murder and manslaughter." end quote
Source: http://www.dailycamera.com/bdc/louisville_...4881342,00.html

I soooo hope who ever runs against him uses this example of how he feels about baby Jason Midyette's death.

Little

 

Yeah, the Boulderites would have to be damn fools to bring him in. Does the name "Michael Dukakis" mean anything to anyone?

I reserve judgement until I see who the next one is.

 

Quote:
This is a picture of Dr. Werner Spitz demonstrating where she was hit and why he thinks it may have been a flashlight that was used.

Post # 33 on the following thread:

http://www.boards.320sycamore.com/showthread.php?p=22315#post22315

But how can a round flashlight produce a rectangular hole in the skull? If she was hit with the flashlight, then it would not be a pattern injury with the punched-out piece of bone having the form of the weapon. What is also interesting: while the piece of bone was displaced, it obviously was not pushed into the brain, as it often happens with such wounds.

 

Thanks for posting that pic of Spitz. I hadn't seen that. Actually, the round part of the flashlight wasn't the part that made contact with her skull, but rather the edge of the light on an angle - exactly as Spitz is demonstrating. So a round flashlight head could very well make a hole that shape. If you could draw a pattern of the part of the flashlight that made contact with her skull, it would be a sort of rectangle with rounded off corners- which to me is what that skull fragment looks like.

 

Athena's post #37 is very informative, discusses why the skull fracture fits the side of the flashlight, and what a depressed fracture is.

 

Putting a round flashlight into a rectangular hole in a skull is right up most JonBenet forum poster's alley. In fact putting round objects into square holes might just be a prerequisite to join some of these forums. But FFJers?

Odds are, that rectangular hole was made by a rectangular object. And the direction of the fracture suggests the direction of the blow. Which wouldn't match the demo at all.

 

At least one of the forensic specialists tried using the flashlight- and it DID make a rectangular hole when the object was hit with the side of it.
For it to make a round hole, you'd have to hold it at right angle ti what you are striking-like a plunger, and bring it down straight so that the round part hits flat. That really isn't the way most people swing a bludgeon. Rather, they'd make an arc.

 

Back to the golf club?! That's where my thoughts have always gone...

 

It fits.

Plus - the 13 Minute Quicker Picker-Upper flies into a rage if anything other than the Mag-Lite is suggested as the weapon which drives home the fact to me that it was NOT the Mag-Lite.

 

Cause of the head injury

I too don't think the maglite was used as the weapon, but that the Ramseys used it either to illuminate the basement or in the kitchen to write the note because they did not want to put the full lights on.
I'm not sure if I remember this correctly, but didn't a neighbor see moving light in the kitchen around or after midnight?

Re the head wound: a golf club would fit imo, since it would be blunt enough not to have lacerated the scalp.

But a lot depends on energy radiation patterns, and in needn't necessarily have been an object which was wielded. A poster on another forum mentioned a criminal case where a stepfather slammed his six-year-old stepdaughter's head against a wall and a piece of her skull bone got semi-punched out from the impact.

 

I agree too! I don't believe that the maglite was the weapon either. I believe that it was used to write the RN with. And yes, a neighbor reported seeing a moving light in the kitchen. This is the reason that it AND the batteries were wiped down (why would an intruder need to wipe the batteries down, anyway...they are INSIDE the flashlight)...because one or both of the Rams were the last ones to use it. They could have put it back where it came from, but didn't....this is just another part of their staging. IMO Leave it out, just in case a neighbor saw the beam...and pretend that it was used by the intruder.

 

Let's don't forget we can look at the autopsy photos for reference in this. If you look at the left side of this displaced skull bone, it creates a curve rather than a straight edge...?

[WARNING!! GRAPHIC AUTOPSY PHOTOS!!]

http://zyberzoom.com/ComparisonPhotos.html

I'm also not sure that the Ramseys thought out every single detail of this, like putting the flashlight on the countertop to be found there, etc. Maybe they did, but some things they just got lucky, IMO. Like Hunter, for example.

For some reason, the baseball bat found outdoors always come to my mind. The RST make such a big deal about it. John and Patsy distanced Burke from it, but wouldn't deny it was his because they had no way to know what he said at grand jury. But a ball bat is rounded on the end and would do a lot of damage to a skull.

But it could be the maglight or a golf club. Guess we'll never know.

 

Nope, I don't believe that we will EVER know....what a shame.

If the Rams didn't intend for the flashlight to be found, wouldn't they have just put it back where it came from...the drawer? And not have spent all that time wiping it and the batteries down?

I too, have wondered about that bat. But, I STILL believe that it was the rounded corner of the sink or tub. I am not a doctor...(nor do I play one on TV)...but, IMO she FELL onto something...hit her head, and then kept going until she hit the floor. To me, this would explain why the piece of her skull was displaced, instead of going inward. If she had of been hit deliberately, dead on with something...it would have not only displaced part of her skull, it would have also shoved it inward...toward her brain. IMO IMO

 

The problem with the "falling" theory as I see it is that she had no spinal injuries. To crack her skull in half in a fall, the impact would have to have been tremendous. That implies a great force of energy had to be exerted to project her at such a velocity to crack her skull like that. To suppose that she wouldn't have also sustained a neck injury during that fall seems a real stretch to me.

Think about how fast, far, or hard her body would have to have moved to sustain such an injury. If you can explain to me how her BODY, which was about three quarters of her weight, was projected that fast and slammed to a halt by her head hitting a surface without causing damage to her neck bones, I can consider the "falling" theory. I simply can't figure out how 40 lbs of her followed her head into a surface at a fast velocity and the delicate neck bones remained unaffected from the impact of that crash. Her body would have contacted the surface AFTER her head; otherwise the head injury wouldn't have happened. The head made the first impact AT THE TOP OF THE SKULL, the body followed, propelling its weight into the surface--and the tiny neck sustained no whiplash injury?

I'm no doctor, but I just can't see how that's possible.

 

I know it sounds horrible, but maybe Patsy in a blind rage took JonBenet's head between her hands and slammed it against the nearby sink ot tub? I don't think it takes much force for an adult to crack the skull of a tiny six-year-old.

jmo

 

While the golf club (as well as one of the baseball bats found in the home) could have produced this kind of injury without lacerating the skull, I have problems imagining Patsy picking up a golf club and swinging it at JonBenet. Also, this club was probably not kept in the bathroom or in JonBenet's bedroom where according to SteveThomas, the confrontation took place.
I would associate using the golf club (or the baseball bat) more with Burke.

jmo

 

While JonBenet was upside down? Have you seen the location of the displaced skull bone?

I still can't imagine how that kind of force would not have been a tremendous strain on JonBenet's neck, as her body wouldn't have "gone along" in the circumstances you describe, but would have been stationary and again, its weight would have been a factor where her neck still takes a lot of stress. But there is no indication at autopsy that the inner muscles or neck bones suffered such trauma.

I don't want to bring Athena's posts here because she hates FFJ, but she did compose some good information about the skull damage on her post at this link, though her sources are hard to make out. A member posted this here in the last day or so, to give credit:

http://www.boards.320sycamore.com/showthread.php?p=22315#post22315

Here is the autopsy section on the head injury and the condition of the neck at autopsy (there's a typo in this HTML source, don't know if it's also in the actual autopsy report):

http://crimemagazine.com/jonbenetdocs.htm#The JonBenet Ramsey Autopsy Report

Now let's look up "comminuted fracture" to clarify.

 

The rectangular punched-out hole was near the back of her skull, at least this is the impression I got from seeing Dr Spitz's demonstration. In think JonBenet could have been facing her mother when Patsy took her head between her hands and slammed it backwards against the nearby sink.

But like I said, it is only a hypothetical scenario. Imo the head wound could also have been inflicted to silence JonBenet for good because she threatened to tell about being sexually abused.

jmo

 

Here's a good wikipedia definition of the various skull fractures and terminology. Notice the definition of how a "linear" fracture occurs:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skull_fracture