Bonita Papers

I have noticed that a lot too. A lot of your posts are just along the same lines as I was thinking, sometimes continuing farther along the same path, but we generally are on the same path.

 

I knew there was something about this interview that struck me when I read this post, but it wasn't until much later that I starting thinking about the date.
Article about the questioning of Burke that includes the full date of this interview: http://web.dailycamera.com/extra/ramsey/1998/26burke.html

I think the date this interview happened Jan 8, 1997, is a good indicator that Burke was not involved in the death or coverup of his sister. If his parents thought he would reveal anything damaging to them, I don't think they would have allowed the interview, especially with a child psychologist (someone trained in getting kids to talk about difficult subjects) and especially so soon after the death.

At this point, they didn't know that Burke was heard on the 911 tape, so there was no "proof" that he was awake until after the police arrived and he was sent off to the neighbors.
Here's what I think happened.
Burke was woke up at some point just before the 911 call was made. He heard all the noise/commotion and came down to see what was going on. His "normal kid" questions were caught on the 911 tape. Since his parents were "short" with him and anxious to keep him quiet, his reaction was that he must have done something wrong to make them "mad" at him. Some of that might have been caught on the 911 tape.
They had no reason to believe anyone would ever know he was awake during the 911 call, but even if he told the Psychologist about this later on, the family could argue that he was just a child, was confused about the actual time sequence and had actually heard another, later phone call. They gave him a quick explanation, sent him back to his bedroom and told him to pretend he was "asleep" until they (or someone else they would send) came to "wake" him later. That would explain why he didn't ask any questions when he was sent off later (I think it was to the Whites?). I don't think it would be normal behavior for a child not to ask questions if woken up and bundled off to a neighbors house that early in the morning (actually any time of day), especially with all the commotion in the house.
As far as him saying something in the interview about a knife, what do kids think "bad guys" use: knives and guns. Since he didn't hear any gun, and since he had an interest in guns anyway, mentioning a gun as being involved in hurting her makes sense.
EDITED TO ADD: I wasn't paying enough attention while I was typing. My last sentence should read:
Since he didn't hear any gun, and since he had an interest in knives anyway, mentioning a knife as being involved in hurting her makes sense.

 

Karen wrote:

Bonita Papers:

Karen,

How many mothers do you think would react in the way Patsy Ramsey maintains she acted? Patsy comes away with the story she thought the note might be from the housekeeper, Linda Hoffman Pugh, relating to the money she wanted to borrow. If so, then why didn't she pick it up?

I personally would have picked up that note and read all that was on it. She gives herself away by not picking it up.
How maddening it is that the cops overlooked this.

Who in their right minds would call 911 without actually reading the note for themselves? You don't fool around with a 911 call. I Just can't go through these lies again about John Ramsey on his knees reading the ransom note while she makes a 911 call. It's just too much. I need an ice pack for my head.

 

I thought it was planes he had an interest in, not guns. He didn't mention a gun, he mentioned a knife:

“someone took her quietly and took her down in the basement took a knife out or hit her on the head."

 

I typed wrong (I was talking to my daughter and trying to type at the same time). What I meant to type was this:
As far as him saying something in the interview about a knife, what do kids think "bad guys" use: knives and guns. Since he didn't hear any gun, and since he had an interest in knives anyway, mentioning a knife as being involved in hurting her makes sense.

 

Again, leaving off comments by the doctor: Dr. Bernhard began to ask about uncomfortable touching. Burke picked up a board game and put it on his head ... Dr. Bernhard asked Burke if he had any secrets, and he said, “probably, if I did, I wouldn't tell you, because then
it wouldn’t be a secret.

 

Hi Elle_1!

You said "How maddening it was that the cops overlooked this."
I don't think they overlooked it at all. Steve Thomas even told Patsy to her face there was enough probable cause to arrest her. The note and everything having to do with it along with the pineapple, fiber evidence and everything else I can't take the time to list, prove Patsy had a hand in this crime. But IMO Hunter didn't think he would win in court so he refused to prosicute. The cops did their job, and handed it to Hunter, What happened with it after that is not the BPD's fault. This is probably Deja Nu's expertise but it is only my opinion.
I read somewhere that both John and Patsy said they handled the note that morning. They claim to not know why their fingerprints aren't on it. I think it was in one of their TV interviews or something. For John to spread it out on the floor like that to me is bizarre. I think most adults would turn on the light and sit at the table to read something. But more bizarre than that to me is that Patsy claims to not have read it except for a couple of lines and yet knew what was in it and that it was written on the same type of paper that was in her kitchen area.
She called it a "ransom note" when she was talking to the dispatcher. Well, maybe it's just me but I wouldn't be savvy enough in that situation to call the letter that she only read a few of the top lines of a "ransom note." I would be screaming there's a letter here or a note. I don't think the word "ransom" would enter my brain. This among, other seemingly silly things, to me says "preparation" for the 911 call. And she already knew what was in that note.

 

"Blood had been found on the long sleeved white top and the Wednesday underwear worn by Jonbenet, the blanket and nightgown found in the winecellar, and the duct tape found in the cellar which John reported to have removed from Jonbenets mouth."

This was all Jonbenets blood according to the Bonita papers. I'd like to know how blood got on the Barbie nightgown and blanket?!

 

fingerprints

It is the oils on your fingers that cause fingerprints. It is possible to handle paper sometimes without leaving fingerprints. I read this somewhere but can't remember the source.

 

I've read that too, but I couldn't find a source.

 

This part has been thrashed out so many times, Karen, about John on his knees reading the ransom note. So stupid! Once again, I don't know how those two got away with so many made up stories.

Yes, I know about Steve Thomas being given a hard time
by Alex Hunter not allowing the arrest of the Ramseys, when Steve felt there was enough to charge them with. I just don't think the police came down on Patsy Ramsey hard enough about this part when they were interviewed.
All that baloney about stepping over the RN on those awkward spiral stairs, and glancing at it and reading a few lines. Lying through her teeth! It's all old hat!

I read Steve's book, and I also saw "Perfect Murder Perfect Town" video, where the actor playing Steve loses his temper with Alex Hunter, when he won't allow Steve to Charge the Ramseys.

When I was reading the NE Police Files, there were so many questions which were not followed through. Exasperating! I just can't believe how much these two have gotten away with (?).

 

Quote by Karen

Karen, exactly! Preparation for the 9-11 call. I could not image saying ransom either. I would be screaming there was a note, but I would not even begin to think ransom. I don't think my mind would allow me to go there. I wonder how long they or she prepared for the call? Also, if like she said, she just glanced at the first couple of lines, how did she know about SBTC and Victory? To me, that call was almost a confession in itself.

 

JC, I wonder if there was improper touching of Burke by someone? I also wonder what secrets Burke has held in all of these years? If he knows something, which I think he does, I have to wonder how he is holding it in without exploding. Then, I think of that strange comment by John about Burke turning 40.....

 

I wonder about things like that, too. More than wondering if there was improper touching of Burke, I wonder if there was improper touching by Burke, a monkey see monkey do sort of thing.

 

Hi Karen,

The quote "It was?" appears in the National Enquirer book "JonBenet The Police Files."

Patsy's statements given to Steve Thomas in her April 30, 1997 testimony:

What is even more astounding, is that this information was public knowledge as early as January 8th, four months before Patsy testified!

 

How would Patsy know it was a ransom note if she'd only read the first few lines?

The demand for $118,000 wasn't presented until the second paragraph halfway down the first page, 11 lines from the first sentence of the note.

The first few lines of the note only talk about how the foreign faction respects John and his "bussiness," but not his country. It sounds more like the beginning of a political rant than a ransom note.

 

Yep, you have to read pretty far into the note to figure out that it's a ransom note. The ransom part doesn't exactly pop out at you, so it's not like you would notice it right away just glancing at the note.
And, it starts out pretty complimentary for a ransom note, i.e, why would anyone take for ransom the child of someone if they respect him and his "bussiness", but not the country they serve. Who were "they" supposed to be hurting by taking JB? That makes no sense at all.

 

I don't think the answer would be all that unusual for kids that age. In fact, I bet if you asked a bunch of kids if they had any secrets, most would give a variation of that answer. To know how significant that answer was, I think I'd need to know more about what exactly the doctor asked about uncomfortable touching and what the time element was between that and asking about secrets.
For strange comments, John Ramsey's comments about Burke turning 40 and revealing things is VERY strange. Who would think anything like that about their children unless they knew there were some secrets being hidden.
The things in the Bonita papers info about Burke's psychological interview that struck me were his action when asked if he had any secrets (picking up a board game and placing it on his head seems very strange).
Also strange to me was that where it says:
"When left alone with the psychologist, Burke appeared to be at ease and even told the doctor that be felt safe, even though he did say that he had not wanted to come that day!"
Why would he feel safe if an intruder came into his house and killed his sister? He might feel safe if he knew his sister had been killed over something that he didn't have to fear for himself. If he had an thought that a stranger (or even someone outside the family) had come in, taken her and killed her, you would expect him to be terrified of something sim ilar happening to him. So, we are left with, he knew he was not in any danger.
" Dr. Bernhard explained that most children in interviews will discuss things about the family that angers them even if they love them, but Burke appeared to have difficulty in opening up about his family, similar to children who can't say things, because they feel that there are some things they shouldn't say."
This could could be some secret he was hiding regarding ongoing things in his house before JB's death, or it could be what he knew about that early morning and the 911 phone call.
"Social Services had previously provided Dr. Bernhard with some history on Burke which indicated an ongoing bedwetting problem, but Burke denied this saying that it happened a long time ago. Children are usually honest about this in interviews, and Dr. Bernhard wondered why Burke was not."
Not all children would be honest about this, even if there was no big secret. But, if JB's death was somehow connected with bedwetting, I would expect Burke to be trying to not discuss anything to do with bedwetting.
"When specifically discussing the crime, he related that he did not hear any noises that night and that he was asleep, but he admitted that he usually hears when someone opens the refrigerator door downstairs."
I wonder who came up with the example of opening the refrigerator, Burke or the doctor? And why that sound was given?
"Burke's explanation to the doctor was “someone took her quietly and took her down in the basement took a knife out or hit her on the head." He said that the only thing he asked his dad was "where did you find her body", a highly unusual query from a child considering the possible questions a child might ask about the death of a sibling."
That is very strange. If the only question he asked his dad was "where did you find the body", where does the rest of that explanation come from, the "took her quietly and took her down in the basement." Did he overhear things?
Did he only ask his dad where he found her body because he already knew the other things (maybe from overhearing), or because he suspected things that he could not ask about and where did you find her body was the only "safe" question to ask?

 

Thank you Catsfish for finding that quote. I gave up looking because I was running out of time and my internet was going to shut down for lack of use. I knew I had read that somewhere! Miss Patsy thinks she is smarter than all of us, including the authorities. We are all beneath her and gullible. After all, if SHE says it's so, then it's so, right?

 

Hi Sue!
This is my humble opinion about Burke. I think he is on the tape. Given that, I don't think he really has any other involvement with this case. That's just what I think about Burke. When this thread was a baby way back there somewhere I said I thought the writer had a "BDI" theory and wrote the Bonita papers to spin it that way. After reading all that you just posted can you see why it looks that way to me? It makes Burke out to be some kind of strange child for not having the correct reactions or something. Although I think he definatly walked into that interview with a 'tude, I also have to remember who it is that is coaching him. Who was it that stood out in the hallway during one of his interviews a nervous wreck, chain smoking cigarrettes and crying? Why the hell was she SOOOO nervous? Man, Burke might just remember something he hadn't previously and that memory might just lead the BPD to go out and catch JB's killer!! So why was Patsy so nervous? She should have been happy to have Burke talk with the authorities just in case he might be able to help somehow. So I think alot of Burkes strangeness is Patsys coaching and Patsy influence. I think that's why he had the attitude. He acted just like someone who thought this was all just a waste of time. Who would he get that idea from? Someone else who didn't want to be interviewed. Someone else who had disdain for the BPD. I think that attitude rubbed off on Burke. Patsy was a control freak you know. But she couldn't control what went on in that interview room and it drove her nuts. I'm am open to reconsidering what I think about Burkes involvement but so far I haven't really heard or read anything that points me that way.

I also think that one day, well before he's 40 for goodness sake, he will look into all of this. He would need to get out from under his parents influence. Maybe when he's moved out and living on his own or going to college. All he has to do is read the books, log on to some of these forums, and read what was said by his parents in those interviews. At that time I'm sure he is going to sit up and pay attention because IMO he's going to have a lot of questions. Like "Why would my parents say Jonbenet didn't eat pineapple after we got home that night?" Why would they say that? And "Why would my parents, my mother, say the bedwetting was not a problem?" I KNOW it was a problem and told the cops that already. And "Why would my mother say she never put a heart on Jonbenets hand?" She used to do that all the time. And "Why would they say I didn't talk to them when my mother was on the phone calling 911?" Oh yeah, he's going to look into this ,on his own, away from influence and have ALOT of questions.