Bootman again

Texan, you're so right!

The only explanation I've ever read for Patsy's sweater fibers all over her daughter's dead body, including embedded in the ligature, was her dramatic flailing over it when it was brought upstairs. Yet, those same fibers were found on the duct tape covering JB's mouth and the white blanket, both of which John left in the basement when relocating the body. As usual, this ridiculous "transfer" theory doesn't hold up under scrutiny any more than any other theory created and spun by the RST.

I've never heard anything about John's sweater fibers found in JB's crotch area except a blatant denial by him in the interview.

It's amazing that since the fiber evidence from the body was disclosed to the Ramseys and Lin Wood in the 2000 Atlanta police interviews, not one peep has been heard from the RST attempting to discredit it. That is powerful evidence against the Ramseys; you'd think Smit would be hard at work looking for some lame excuse or intruder link.

Instead, it's just the same old same old chit about DNA while completely ignoring this incredible fiber evidence!

 

DejaNu

In addition, fibers matching Patsy's jacket were found in the paint tray. During the 3 days of Tom Haney's 1998 interview of Patsy he very carefully established when Patsy purchased the jacket and that she NEVER wore the jacket to paint.

Reference to the fact that fibers from John's black shirt were found in the ctotch of the new size 12 bloomies can also be found in Patsy's August 2000 interview.

 

Spade, yep, and still no reasonable, credible response from the Ramseys or their supporters.

 

So Spade - or anyone!! Did BPD test John Kenady's DNA against what they have?? I don't believe I've seen anyone say anything about this - unless I missed it! :couch: Thanks!

 

Is this team Ramsey's smoking gun?

I wonder if this man was related to bootman? And if so, will T-Ramsey use the grossly untrue, "if a child is abused they will grow up to abuse" platform? I say grossly untrue only because the VAST majority of sexual predators and serial killers are men and the VAST majority of their victims are women. Anyway - I wonder if there is a connection. As someone here said, bootman Helgoth did not even have a record.

HELGOTH,WALTER E Date of Birth
Nov 16 1937 Race
White Gender
Male
ID Number
00183347 Offender Location
MISSOURI STATE PENITENTIARY Function Flag
INSTITUTION Cause Number
CR-189-1288-FX-J1
Offense County
Unknown Sentence County
Jefferson Charge
26063020 NCIC offense Code
3802
Offense Description
ABUSE OF A CHILD (558.016) CC/CS
PRIMARY SENTENCE Completed?
NO Sentence Date
Dec 10 1991
Sentence Min Release Date
Aug 16 2002 Sentence Max Release Date
Aug 16 2005 Sentence Length Years (yyyy)
0015 Sentence Length Months (mm)
00
Sentence Length Days (dd)
00 Probation Term Years (yyyy)
0000 Probation Term Months (mm)
00 Probation Term Days (dd)
00
_______________________
HELGOTH,WALTER E Date of Birth
Nov 16 1937 Race
White Gender
Male
ID Number
00183347 Offender Location
MISSOURI STATE PENITENTIARY Function Flag
INSTITUTION Cause Number
CR-189-1288-FX-J1
Offense County
Unknown Sentence County
Jefferson Charge
26100990 NCIC offense Code
3899
Offense Description
USE OF CHILD IN SEXUAL PERFORMANCE (558.016) CC/CS
CONSECUTIVE Completed?
NO Sentence Date
Dec 10 1991
Sentence Min Release Date
Aug 15 2014 Sentence Max Release Date
Aug 15 2017 Sentence Length Years (yyyy)
0015 Sentence Length Months (mm)
00
Sentence Length Days (dd)
00 Probation Term Years (yyyy)
0000 Probation Term Months (mm)
00 Probation Term Days (dd)
00
__________________________
HELGOTH,WALTER E Date of Birth
Nov 16 1937 Race
White Gender
Male
ID Number
00183347 Offender Location
MISSOURI STATE PENITENTIARY Function Flag
INSTITUTION Cause Number
CR-189-1288-FX-J1
Offense County
Unknown Sentence County
Jefferson Charge
26110990 NCIC offense Code
3899
Offense Description
PROMOTING SEXUAL PERFORMANCE (558.016) CC/CS
CONCURRENT Completed?
NO Sentence Date
Dec 10 1991
Sentence Min Release Date
Aug 16 2002 Sentence Max Release Date
Aug 16 2005 Sentence Length Years (yyyy)
0015 Sentence Length Months (mm)
00
Sentence Length Days (dd)
00 Probation Term Years (yyyy)
0000 Probation Term Months (mm)
00 Probation Term Days (dd)
00
_______________________________
HELGOTH,WALTER E Date of Birth
Nov 16 1937 Race
White Gender
Male
ID Number
00183347 Offender Location
MISSOURI STATE PENITENTIARY Function Flag
INSTITUTION Cause Number
CR-189-1288-FX-J1
Offense County
Unknown Sentence County
Jefferson Charge
25050990 NCIC offense Code
3799
Offense Description
PROMOTING CHILD PORNOGRAPHY 1ST (558.016) CC/CS
CONCURRENT Completed?
NO Sentence Date
Dec 10 1991
Sentence Min Release Date
Aug 16 2015 Sentence Max Release Date
Aug 16 2020 Sentence Length Years (yyyy)
0030 Sentence Length Months (mm)
00
Sentence Length Days (dd)
00 Probation Term Years (yyyy)
0000 Probation Term Months (mm)
00 Probation Term Days (dd)
00
__________________________
HELGOTH,WALTER E Date of Birth
Nov 16 1937 Race
White Gender
Male
ID Number
00183347 Offender Location
MISSOURI STATE PENITENTIARY Function Flag
INSTITUTION Cause Number
CR-189-1288-FX-J1
Offense County
Unknown Sentence County
Jefferson Charge
11100990 NCIC offense Code
1199
Offense Description
DEVIATE SEXUAL ASSAULT 1ST (558.016) CC/CS
CONSECUTIVE Completed?
NO Sentence Date
Dec 10 1991
Sentence Min Release Date
Aug 15 2027 Sentence Max Release Date
Aug 15 2030 Sentence Length Years (yyyy)
0015 Sentence Length Months (mm)
00
Sentence Length Days (dd)
00 Probation Term Years (yyyy)
0000 Probation Term Months (mm)
00 Probation Term Days (dd)
00
________________________________
HELGOTH,WALTER E Date of Birth
Nov 16 1937 Race
White Gender
Male
ID Number
00183347 Offender Location
MISSOURI STATE PENITENTIARY Function Flag
INSTITUTION Cause Number
22SEP83107024
Offense County
Unknown Sentence County
Boone Charge
13998 NCIC offense Code
1399
Offense Description
ABUSE OF CHILD CC/CS
PRIMARY SENTENCE Completed?
YES Sentence Date
May 16 1984
Sentence Min Release Date
Sep 21 1985 Sentence Max Release Date
Sep 21 1986 Sentence Length Years (yyyy)
0003 Sentence Length Months (mm)
00
Sentence Length Days (dd)
00 Probation Term Years (yyyy)
0000 Probation Term Months (mm)
00 Probation Term Days (dd)
00
_________________________________-

 

Mum's the word

The fiber evidence is damning, not to mention Ramsey-culpable; which is exactly why the RST has swept it under the rug. When the evidence is brought up, the Ramseys protest loudly of how despicable it is that people would dare think they had anything to do with their daughter's death -- and then they make the wild accusations that the BPD are lying and fabricating evidence against them.

Smit can't come up with any excuse -- lame or otherwise -- that could link the fiber evidence to an intruder. Although I do think he tried in the beginning by making the very lame excuse that the intruder spent hours in the house while the Ramseys were out, and was able to use numerous household items to frame the Ramseys, not to mention learning how Patsy wrote and learning familial facts to frame Patsy as the note-writer.

The idiocy that the fibers were innocently transferred by the parents is just that -- idiocy. How could fibers from John's shirt "innocently" get transferred into JonBenet's underwear? And how could fibers from Patsy's jacket "innocently" transfer not "on" the ligature, but entangled "in" the ligature.

What sickens me is that the RST takes the minutiae dna in the underwear and insists that it's location in the panties cannot be in any way, shape or form, considered innocent transfer and/or unrelated to the crime. Regardless that the minutiae is so minute that it couldn't possibly have been transferred during the commission of a crime (together with the fact that there is no other supporting evidence on the body or the crimescene), the RST continues to insist that this is the smoking gun....the killer's dna...evidence of an intruder.

Ramsey said in the beginning of this investigation, when he was battling the so-called lynch mob accusations that his family was involved, that if you hear/say something over and over enough, it becomes reality. His intent here was to show that anti-Ramsey "rants" were eventually believed by those of us doing the ranting. What's really going on here, though, is that Ramsey has learned from this, and has consistently said things over and over again to the point where HE actually believes them. He ignores the real evidence (i.e., the fiber evidence) insisting it's police lies, while at the same time insisting the dna minutiae is not only important, but belongs to the killer.

IOW, what Ramsey and the RST have done is what they've done since the night JonBenet was killed...they lie with the purpose of detracting attention away from themselves and rediverting the attention on someone, or something, else.

The fiber evidence proves that John and Patsy Ramsey were involved with their daughter's killing. They continue to divert attention away from themselves, and the evidence that points to them, by redirecting attention on insignificant factoids and claiming it's the smoking gun.

 

VP, I don't recall anyone saying Helgoth didn't have a record, but thanks for posting it. There are thousands of these perpetrators all over the world. Just because someone has a record of sex crimes against children, even if he lived in CO, doesn't necessarily mean he committed homicide against JonBenet Ramsey. Mr. Helgoth was also a diagnosed schizophrenic.

Someone's criminal record does not substantiate culpability; evidence does. And while it's intellectually stimulating to ponder all kinds of theories, the most accurate and prosecutable is the one the evidence tells. Helgoth's DNA did not match, the Hi-Tec boot print did not match and no forensic evidence was found at the crime scene that links Helgoth to this crime.

Yet in complete absence of evidence, this man continued to be "good for it" by the Ramseys and their spin doctors, simply on the basis of creating an appearance of guilt because of his past criminal record and one drug addict's solicited and highly compensated "testimony." This is what's called fabrication of evidence and is only used when no real evidence exists.

Let us not forget too that Helgoth's death was ruled a suicide by Meyer and the BPD. Despite that, Lou Smit now spins a very juicy story that Helgoth didn't commit suicide or commit JonBenet's murder (contradicting his earlier statements), but was actually executed by the real killer who is now on the lamb (could he mean Lee Hill?), a handy excuse for why no testing can be done to match any evidence with this elusive perp.

Nevertheless, not only can the drug addict's DNA be tested for a match, but the three crime scenes Lou Smit now creates an appearance of belonging to one perp can be tested against each other for matches that would substantiate his claims. Has this been done? Probably not. If it were, the absence of evidence in the Ramsey case alone would prevent any link with the alleged homicides of an unidentified little girl and the Helgoth crime scene. So much for a serial killer, much less one perp.

Smit's intruder theory has morphed throughout the years to "identify" one perp after another. Helgoth was just the next in line when everyone else named had failed to convince the public of their guilt. Now he's shined on Helgoth, made him yet another victim, along with JonBenet and another unidentified little girl, creating the illusion of a serial killer, to arrive at Lou's current Perp Pick 2004. His stories of circumstance throughout these various candidates has grown more and more bizarre in hopes of sufficient drama to exhonerate the Ramseys in the public's mind.

All the while, the evidence has remained the same. It all points to Ramsey guilt and no one else. Only the naive could be fooled by these desperate attempts to persuade otherwise.

Evidence aside for the moment, the only other person who has ever surfaced in Boulder's murder rate dilemma who possesses sufficient cunning, expertise and psych profile to commit such heinous crimes while leaving absolutely no evidence other than amateurish staging IMO is Lee Hill. I would strongly encourage the BDA to start testing his DNA to evidence collected in the Ramsey homicide, the alleged Helgoth suicide/homicide, the unidentified little girl's homicide, the Susannah Chase murder, and the Vodicka murder.

 

Oops, sorry, you're right...I was reading two forums at the same time - I read this at websleuths and posted the answer here!

Everything you say is true, but the seasoned detective is not at all above a a hideously far reaching stretch now and again. The blue mark from the stun gun on JonBenet's skin springs to mind.

 

Yep, that comment really put Smit over the top. So much for "expert" witness! LOL

 

Is this Walter Helgoth Michael's father-- or just someone with a criminal record named Helgoth. (His date of birth was 1937 i believe)

 

what blue mark? I haven't heard this one.

 

Not even a thin blue line Lou

Ahhh, the infamous difinitive evidence by Lou!!
Here is part of the transcript where he shows how little he knows:

Thank you ACandyRose!!
http://www.acandyrose.com/05012001lousmit-todayshow.htm

 

no blue lines...ever

Source: http://web.dailycamera.com/extra/ramsey/2001/02lrams.html
Experts dispute stun gun theory By Christopher Anderson Camera Staff Writer May 2, 2001

 

Thanks Little. I am not alone when I say Lou Smit is, and always has been, protecting Patsy Ramsey. Here is a guy who at one time was honest and clear thinking and followed the evidence where it led--but since starting this case he is jumping through hoop after hoop to find some intruder in this mess.

 

"Stratbucker said it is "pure nonsense" that the stun gun would leave a blue mark in between red marks on the skin as Smit claimed.

"I have not seen ever, ever any blue marks, and I don't know what the cause of any blue mark could be," he said.â€

The blue marks are exactly where the rest of the "intruder evidence" is: In Lou Smit's confused mind.

As explained before, the blue arc between stun gun electrodes comes high voltage ionization of air molecules. This color can not and does not transfer to any other object including skin. The one thing Smit's remark does prove is that he will say anything to support his intruder theory no matter how ridiculous it is.

 

Right, Easy

The fact that Smit is still pushing this garbage after hearing from experts like this means a lot doesn't it?

My favorite part of that article is how Smit magically comes to the conclusion that if a stun gun was used, it means the Ramseys weren't involved. Now how does that work?

"because the Ramseys don't own a stun gun." Now how does he know that, praytell? Because they said so? Now what kind of investigator just assumes the people proven to be at the murder scene are telling the truth? Plus they had a stun gun training tape!

 

John probably took Ole Lou aside and said "I swear to God we don't own a stungun Lou."

 

That's a given Thor

Well Thor, that's just about a given!! LOL

Of course it's hard to tell just what the heck the old boy did know. He thought it sounded like something someone from California might own though. Gee, according the NE book he didn't even know that Patsy was having panic attacks - he said he didn't know what panic attacks were the poor old soul. Oh - don't get me started!!

Little

 

Leaks about Michael Helgoth

From Crime About, November 14 2000:-

http://crime.about.com/library/weekly/aa111700a.htm

It's a pity that jameson wasn't allowed to answer ST's question about whether or not she'd seen the photo of Michael Helgoth's body. I wonder where she got her information about. This is very pertinent if it transpires that Michael Helgoth is a serious suspect.

 

1st Post

I think it is worthwhile to re-post the article that I used to start this thread:

From the AP wire November 21, 2000:

BOULDER, Colo. (AP) A shoe print found near JonBenet Ramsey's body
didn't come from a pair of boots John and Patsy Ramsey thought might be connected to their daughter's slaying, police said.

The boots belonged to a Boulder County man who committed suicide in
February 1997, a couple of months after the 6-year-old beauty queen was
found beaten and strangled in the basement of her home.
The Ramseys gave police the boots in August after their private
investigator, Ollie Gray, obtained them. Gray said the boots could have
belonged to JonBenet's killer.

But Police Chief Mark Beckner said the boots didn't make the partial print
found in the basement. DNA tests and interviews with the dead man's
friends and family also led police to conclude he wasn't involved in the
slaying. "There is nothing that ties this guy into the case," Beckner said.

The Ramseys remain under suspicion in their daughter's death. They have
said they believe an intruder killed the girl.
AP-WS-11-21-00 1526EST