Breaking it down

Discussion in 'Justice for JonBenet Discussion - Public Forum' started by koldkase, Mar 2, 2006.

  1. JustChillun

    JustChillun Member

    Since the shape of the skull flap is elliptical, I vote something on the order of a Maglite handle could have done the damage. It would have to be compact, heavy, and have the round end that could cause the elliptical insult/injury to the bone there.
     
  2. koldkase

    koldkase FFJ Senior Member

    Wow. Great ideas and lots of very specific description as to how the head blow occurred.

    As to the "fall" theory, EW, how would JB not have serious bruising elsewhere on her body to indicate a severe fall? If the fall had such velocity or force that it created a whiplash effect that was strong enough to cause that extensive skull damage, slamming the head against a fixed object, it seems to me we'd see more bruising where her body contacted the floor/stairs/etc.

    Having said that, it seems I remember discussing the autopsy report and that it indicated there was a "contracoup" injury to the front of the brain, indicating her head had at some point been snapped forward violently. If I'm not misremembering, and I could be because this is NOT my strong point, it was discussed by those on the forums who are knowledgable in the medical field. The debate as I remember it went back and forth between the brain injury being part of the initial head blow reaction and a "shaken baby" type of injury, as if someone had tried to "awaken" JB after the injury.

    Now, I really am fishing here, as I can't remember how long it has been since I read much on this part of the autopsy/head injury. I could be totally forgetting facts and arguments. But there have been people on the forums through the years who know this stuff, even a surgeon who went through autopsy training as part of her internship rotation when she was young.

    Anyhow, more stuff to think about.

    So let's consider that she was upright, as that makes sense from what you've both said, as opposed to lying against a "soft" surface, which would have cushioned the blow and decreased the devastation of the head injury, or a hard surface, which would have caused a matching injury on the other side of her head. So in these theories, she was either hit from above and to the back right, or her head hit something during a fall.

    Do you have any ideas, any thoughts, EW, about what a head might hit during a fall that would cause that kind of injury? You've seen pictures of the home, pictures of the skull fracture and displaced bone. Anything you can think of that makes sense? It just seems to me that it would take a very violent fall to create the force needed to crack the skull.

    And now that I'm thinking of it, why would the skull actually crack for 8 inches, in addition to the gouge that created that displaced section of skull about 2 inches long? I know nothing here...but I'm just wondering why, if hit with say a Maglite, didn't the injury stop with that caved section? Why did it continue to crack in both directions? Maybe there's a simple answer here, but I don't know it.
     
  3. koldkase

    koldkase FFJ Senior Member


    I looked at the rope picture last night under magnification, and I'm not altogether sure that the rope ends were "tied" after a fashion, with the rope ends actually fanned out a little bit in the picture. Perhaps the tape was the wrap used, instead of cord. I tried to find the NE questions asked of Patsy about this, but got side-tracked and then got tired. I'll keep looking, because I want to see if Haney gave out specific information about "the tape" method he was focusing on. I'm sure he said the rope ends were "taped," but again, in the picture we have, the ends do look slightly fanned out, so I'm not sure the entire ends were covered in tape. Anybody else see what I mean?

    Oh, thanks for the info here, Jayelles and EW. Also, thanks for finding that picture for us.

    I have another question: does anyone here remember seeing a picture of this same rope in the "bag"? I thought long ago I'd seen that very picture, at the foot of the bed. But it "disappeared," like so much in this case does sooner or later. It is possible that I'm confused on that, though. It's been so long ago, and way back when I first came online, I had no idea things would disappear with time, nor did I know how to save them to discs yet.
     
  4. koldkase

    koldkase FFJ Senior Member

    I believe JAR denied ever seeing the rope before. Of course, they'd just say "he/she/they forgot" if a serious investigator pointed out the obvious here: they're sailors, pilots, and fish for sport; they have rope in pictures with JonBenet on several occasions very similar to this rope; Patsy used rope in Christmas decorations in JAR's room, in decorations of scarecrows for the school, and has similar rope in her basement shown in crime scene pictures still hanging on the wall. But she has no idea.... Right. Lucky for the intruder....

    But this is why Smit grabbed this "rope brought in by the killer" theory and the RST keeps spinning it. The Rams all denied ever seeing that rope before. Smit had to fit something into the killer being in that room then, didn't he? Rope doesn't just float into a house all by itself. Not to mention, we know from Carnes' decision that bag fibers were found in the bed, and the rope was "in a bag." So Smit had to explain that, as well. He tied the "mysterious rope" to the "paper bag fibers" and the ruffled dust ruffle, along with the half-opened bathroom drawers: voila! Intruder under the bed with rope! Take that, Sherlock!

    Of course, don't anyone tell him for his theory to fly, you have to believe the prime suspects' every word: they have no idea where that rope came from; they know nothing about no half-opened drawers; that dust ruffle looks out of place; therefore, IT WAS AN INTRUDER!

    :banghead:

    You know, now that I'm thinking about this more, Kane once said the rope was in a duffle bag, the thought. And I am now thinking that for a long time, I thought that as well. Gosh, it's been so long, I am confused. But if the rope was NOT in a paper bag, that would make a difference about how those bag fibers got into that bed, wouldn't it? I mean, that would go immediately to the "new purchase" theory. I guess one could argue the intruder brought his tape and cord in a paper bag.

    Does anyone here remember what that rope in JAR's room was initially in? I could swear, now that I think of it, there was a picture shown of that in the Smit PowerPoint show with Couric. I even thought it was in that article of pictures put up by the newspapers at the same time. Then it disappeared. Or my mind did. :abnormal:

    I'm out of ideas. Anybody? Oh, Texan had one. Let me check it out.
     
  5. Texan

    Texan FFJ Senior Member

    believe me

    when I say it would take a weird tumble to cause that kind of head injury. Think about it for a minute. A simple fall and bang of the head against something isn't likely to cause that kind of fracture. Haven't we all seen children fall and hit their heads? It's scary but if they haven't fallen off of something or hit against something with more force you just generally don't see a kid get a skull fracture like that. There would have to be more force than that - for instance if she were swung by her feet and hit against something or fell some distance ( from a couple of floors up) and landed against something.

    Now think of the position of the fracture. It is in the parietal area or slightly toward the side of the head. Put your head down on a table edge or tub edge and try to figure the position your head would be in to get cracked there. Since the crack is closer to the top of the head than strictly on the side, you would be in an awkward position to suffer a fracture in that spot.

    If she had been standing or kneeling and an adult standing by her swung an object it would be more likely to hit there. As for no break in the skin - kids skulls tend to give more than adults. It would really depend what she was hit with.

    Check this out - the girl fell 15 feet -
    http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060307/ap_on_sp_co_ne/bkc_cheerleader_injured
     
    Last edited: Mar 7, 2006
  6. koldkase

    koldkase FFJ Senior Member

    Ok, lots of ideas here.

    About that bag Arndt MOVED. I swear that woman...ok, not going there....

    About that bag Arndt moved: whatever happened to it? I don't think anyone has ever said.

    Patsy said in the '98 interview, her book, etc., that she packed/wrapped packages to take to Charlevoix/for Christmas after she put JB to bed that night, for 30 minutes, more or less. I think this, again, is where Smit got so misled, with the rope lying at the foot of JAR's bed not being identified by Patsy. She had clothes and suitcases all over that bed to pack. She admitted to packing that day in that room. But she never saw this bag of rope.

    So how'd it get there? If she's not lying, it had to get there somehow. If John and Burke didn't put it there, and Patsy didn't, then it HAD to be the INTRUDER!

    Back up, Smut. You only have Patsy's and John's word on this. We don't even know if anyone ever asked Burke. We know JAR said he'd never seen it. Did he lie? How would we know? Patsy should have seen it that day if it had been pulled out before it was found the next morning and photographed by LE. JAR's room door was a few feet away from JB's. Was the door open normally? Did anyone go into that room after they all came home? I can't remember either of them ever being asked, but I could have forgotten. Anyone remember this? I'll see if I can find it in the NE book, since I"m back to looking stuff up in there.

    Something that I have always thought is important is that Patsy said point blank she was in the "wine" cellar room that Christmas Day, wrapping packages. I am thinking that one of those packages should have been for the niece, with the large Bloomies panties, but I could be wrong about that. I am thinking that Patsy said she hadn't sent those packages yet, even though Christmas was that day. But we know there are crime scene pictures with the wrapping paper from Bloomies still on the floor in the same cellar room. So we have, by her own admission, that the day of the night her daughter was murdered, Patsy was in that room. The paint tray was outside that room. Christmas Day. Hours later, JB was taken there and laid by the paint tray, where a large part of the crimes against her took place, and then laid out in the same cellar room.

    John also said he took presents to the plane that afternoon, when he went to get it ready for the trip the next morning. Presents for the Charlevoix trip to celebrate Christmas with the big kids. But Patsy, busy as she was, was still wrapping them while he was gone/that night/various times that day, according to her various stories. John also said she was packing that day for their trips.

    What's with all this packing packing wrapping wrapping?

    You know, something else that jumped out at me: when questioned about the black duct tape in the '98 interview, Patsy said that sticky tape, kind of mushy, no never saw it...there's a joke there somewhere, isn't there? But she then said something completely NOT asked: she said that kind of cord wasn't used by the post office/ups anymore. Then she catches herself and says the post office used it, but she uses UPS now. Or some convoluted story she came up with. Very strange. But it made me think at some point, Patsy tied her packages to mail.

    Of course, we know Patsy could have used the black duct tape for pageant activities, rehearsals, to put an "x" on the mark JB should hit when she was performing, etc. It's commonly used in pageants, as well, for figure enhancements, etc.. though I don't think it was used on JB for that. But Patsy certainly knew a lot about duct tape to never have used it, didn't she?

    But the "bag of children's clothes" is another possible source for bag fibers, anyway. Good thinking, Texan.

    About those black pants in the floor being the black pants JonBenet wore to the Whites: see, that's interesting, isn't it? But Patsy said she "didn't remember" when JB wore those pants, I believe, in the '98 interview. Could they have been the ones JB wore that night, that Patsy took off? Well, sure. Except for ONE THING: THEY HAD DIRTY UNDIES STILL IN THEM. Remember, Haney asked about the stains in the undies still in the pants, like they'd just been pulled off together. Patsy talked at that point about JB's toileting habits a bit. But think about it: if those were the black velvet pants, then Patsy removed JB's panties that night before putting the long johns on her. So that means that Patsy had to get clean panties out and put them on, as well. But Patsy doesn't say she did that. She only says she removed the black pants and put the long johns on.

    See her problem? The too large Bloomies. When they got on JB has been asked of Patsy many times. She never remembers. Can't remember why they were on JB, when they got there, how they got there...even says JB might have put them on herself. But as Jayelles tells it, those panty bags have a plastic tie on the bags, and to open it, a six year old would have to have cut the tie. Did JonBenet do that? How? Where are the scissors? Surely she didn't use a knife. Or did she? Why doesn't Patsy know? What does Patsy know? Don't ask while Wood is in the room, or you'll get so many stories, you won't have a clue. AS USUAL.

    But that's an interesting idea: the Bloomies tie had to be cut for JB to wear the Wednesday panties that day/night. The cord was cut some time that night, with fibers getting into JB's bed. Two knives are found which may or may not be related to the crime: a kitchen paring knife in the laundry area outside JB's bedroom and Burke's swiss knife that went from that same area in a cabinet to the countertop outside the cellar room at some point during the holidays. It has been published that Burke's knife had duct tape gum on it from the duct tape, in Wecht's book, I believe, but correct me if I'm wrong.

    Ok, moving along to Tea's idea: the bag of clothes...the suitcase. The attache for the money at the bank...transfer to a paper bag for delivery.

    Thinking...thinking.... offtheair:
     
  7. koldkase

    koldkase FFJ Senior Member

    Yeah, I can see your point. Plus, as the cheerleader fall demonstrated, there should be some kind of neck injury, at least. That's why I can't see a fall being the cause, though I'm open to looking at possibilities if anyone has something that makes sense. But in that bathroom or bedroom, how could anyone possibly have enough room to fall that violently?
     
  8. JustChillun

    JustChillun Member

    They couldn't have. That's what I've been getting at all along. It was a blow to the head, and there would have been no running headlong into anything that would have elicited such a fracture without a cluster of other injuries such as to the cervical spine as was mentioned by you all before.
    The severity of this injury in a child of about 6 is from blunt force trauma. The calcification of the skull is still not complete, and yet there is the lengthy linear fracture. This is as suspect as a spiral fracture in a 6 month old's femur. It is a clear-cut case of badness.
     
  9. icedtea4me

    icedtea4me Member

    koldkase,

    It helps if you don't take the part about the money literally as meaning John going to a bank and getting cash money. Try to think of this more in terms of Patsy arranging a "delivery", a "delivery" which is "exhausting" so John needs to be rested. He needs to get to bed himself.

    If one looks at the line "Make sure you bring an adequate size attache to the bank", you'll note something odd, yet telling, about the d in adequate. Notice how the downstroke isn't a straight up-and-down erect line. Instead, it is bent, or non-erect. There is nothing directly above this d which would cause the writer to write it like this. I see this non-erect d downstroke as a symbolic message that Patsy tries to get across to John regarding an "attache". Now, I have also said that I thought there was a connection between the suitcase under the basement window and the "attache".

    The suitcase contained a semen-stained duvet/blanket and a Dr. Seuss book. A semen-stained cover-up and a child's story.

    -Tea
     
  10. koldkase

    koldkase FFJ Senior Member

    A clear cut case of badness, JustC?

    My oh my.

    So.

    Somebody hits her and means to do it.

    History: Burke hit her with a golf club in the face once and on the leg as well, Patsy said in one LE interview. We do not know the circumstances in either case. One, both, or neither could have been accidental, or deliberate, siblings fighting kind of stuff.

    OK, maybe we should work at this from the other direction. What do we know from the evidence about that night and its events before the fibers were left in the bed?

    Wait. You know, we don't actually know when those fibers were left in the bed, do we? I mean, if you assume an intruder did this, of course you're tracking the fibers from AFTER JonBenet was put to bed that night.

    But what if the fibers got into her bed BEFORE that night? What if they got there that afternoon, with kids playing in the house, as they were, from the neighborhood. Burke had friends over, Patsy says, playing in his room, with JB sitting at his doorway putting together jewelry with her bead set. Patsy said she stopped and did that for a few minutes with JB, as I remember.

    She also was packing. John was gone for a couple of hours. Patsy dyed her hair. She also wrapped some packages, she and John said, that day. so kids could have done a lot of things nobody noticed, like playing in JB's room, on her unmade bed, cutting some cord with a kitchen knife, maybe, to make a leash for the dog or some imaginary mission for GI Joe--kids come up with all kinds of stuff when they play...? For that matter, JonBenet was the one making jewelry with beads. Do those kits have large beads? Large cord come in them to make bigger strands of beads for something? (I have no idea, but seems possible to me.) Is it possible that the cord came with her kit or she got it from downstairs in a drawer, thinking she'd use it to make something with her beads? Maybe she got the knife to cut it. Or maybe she used some kid scissors of her or Burke's.

    Well, I don't know if that matters at all, it just occurred to me I was jumping to a timeline conclusion when we do not really KNOW what the timeline was for the cord fibers being cut and ending up in the bed, since we do not KNOW who cut that cord, do we? Again, we're relying on the word of people who have remained under the umbrella, alone identified as such, since the murder.

    What we do know is that the Rams went to the Whites, stayed and visited a while, had supper, and then left. They went by the Stines, if the Stines can be believed...not too keen on anything Susan Stine says as being truth, since she's been caught lying and impersonating a police chief. Not to mention mugging a reporter and having him accosted by LE under a false allegation Stine called in for a joke.

    So all we really know is the Ramseys left the Whites sometime that evening after supper. They arrived home sometime later with Burke and JonBenet. JonBenet ate some pineapple that day/night at some point, and that was the last thing she ate, according to the autopsy. She died from an hour to several hours later, again, according to autopsy results and digestive timing.

    I'm leaving out the Ramsey's claims/statements/testimony here because they have changed their stories and lied and are still suspects, so nothing they say without corroborative evidence can be counted as truth.

    So...from the Whites to home, maybe or maybe not a stop in between...pineapple eaten by JonBenet...an hour or two later she dies from strangulation with head blow complications. She is moleseted before she dies with a paintbrush from Patsy's paint tray, located in the basement near where urine is deposited by JonBenet outside the cellar door. Her body is found in the cellar room in full rigor, where it's probably been for at least 10-12 hours. Fibers from the cord found on her neck in the basement the next day somehow transferred or fell into her bed at some point, but we don't really know exactly when.

    Sidebar: Why is Patsy's sweater on JonBenet's bed? John is shown a picture of JonBenet's room by Smit, and he identifies a sweater lying on JB's bed as belonging to Patsy. I get confused here: there looks to be a sweater lying on the twin bed which JB did not sleep in. But I was looking at the pics of the bedroom the other day and noticed what looked like a similar sweater lying at the end, kind of off the bed, turned inside out, like it had been pulled off and discarded there. Maybe I'm getting this mixed up because I was reading Patsy's interview in NE, I think, and she said JonBenet didn't want to wear her matching sweater that night because Patsy had hers on. Struck me as an odd statement, but maybe not. Anyhow, I don't think I still even know what Patsy had on that night, which sweater or jacket, other than a red and black one. Patsy and John seemed to have their own questions, saying the photos from the White's party refreshed their memories.

    So I guess I'm wondering if that sweater on the end of JB's bed is Patsy's, that she wore that night, or not? Maybe she had it on earlier in the day. Or maybe it's JB's and JB pulled it off and wouldn't wear it, left it laying there before they went to the White's. So whose sweater is on the other bed? Or have I just gotten all these sweaters and pictures all mixed up?

    OK, I digress again....

    But I was getting to the sweater fibers found on the duct tape pulled from JonBenet's mouth by John in the basement, fibers belonging to Patsy's sweater from that night. Could have been transferred, we know, any number of ways. But those same fibers were in the paint tray, as well. Again, could have been transferred from JonBenet to killer to tray. Most damning is the same fibers were tied into both knots of the garrote. Again, transfer is a possibility.

    Dark fibers found in JonBenet's genital area appear to be from a wipedown. They have been linked to John's sweater from that night, as well as to the duvet in JAR's suitcase in the basement. Or not. As usual, nobody will say straight out much of anything in this case, will they?

    Paintbrush belonged to Patsy. Notepad and pen with which ransom note were written belong to Patsy.

    Patsy called 911 at 5:55 am. She called the Whites and the Fernies next. LE showed up about 6 am. The Whites and the Fernies arrived shortly thereafter.

    John found JonBenet's body in the basement cellar room a little after 1 pm.

    You know, now that I've thought of it, I am stuck on the JB bead-making kit. What do we know about that kit. I haven't paid it any attention at all, really, but it's about making jewelry, key chains, NECKLACES. We can believe JonBenet and Daphne and John and Fleet played with that same kit at the White's that night, because of course LE would have asked the Whites. Then Patsy says JB played with it that afternoon, as well. Seems like this was one of JB's favorite Christmas toys, doesn't it? Is there any place we can look for some kind of similar kit to the one JB got that Christmas? Why couldn't she have been playing with it in her bed that day? Either had the cord, or she got the cord from somewhere in the house, maybe a drawer in the kitchen, or box in the wrapping section of the cellar, where Patsy was wrapping presents or maybe packages to send off belatedly? Maybe JB took this cord to her room and sat on her bed working her beads onto it? Maybe the cord was already in her room that night.

    I don't know, just occurred to me. Any thoughts?
     
  11. Cranberry

    Cranberry Member

    Bead Kit

    I remember reading in the Patsy interview that the bead kit at the Ramsey home was the kind that had to be heated with an iron (?) I'm not familiar with bead kits so I'm not sure how that is done, but I thought if it was hot to the touch maybe one of the beads made the "stun gun marks" on JonBenet earlier that day. The ironing board was up. I also think of that triangle mark on her neck and the ironing board picture someone put on the forum as a theory of the bruise. It seemed crazy till you saw it. It looked like it could have caused that bruise.
     
  12. koldkase

    koldkase FFJ Senior Member

    OK, I can see where you're coming from here.

    I can tell you one thing I know for sure: it would take someone with some kind of talent to write something like this note on the spur of the moment, to cover up such an awful horror in a few hours. We know Patsy was renowned in her youth for her writing and performance talent in high school and at the Miss Amercian Pageant. If this is all her doing, she was giving the performance of a lifetime that night.
     
  13. koldkase

    koldkase FFJ Senior Member


    Well, now I missed that. What kind of beads do you use with an iron? I mean, this was a child's kit, right? Why would they sell a kit to children that requires a hot iron? Not saying it isn't true, just seems odd. Almost 10 years have passed, so I things change. Does anyone here remember any early discussions about the bead kit? Maybe back then, some of the posters did some research on it?

    But an iron...pointed end...heavy...and with a flat bottom. That might fit in with EW's point about a flat surface needed to cause the long fracture. (I think it was EW. If not, I apologize.)

    Remind me where that iron was set up? Was that in the laundry area outside JB's room? Seems like it was to me, but I'll have to look it up again. Seems like Patsy mentioned the ironing board when recounting her steps the morning of the murder, but I may be wrong about that.
     
  14. koldkase

    koldkase FFJ Senior Member

    About the rope ends on the rope found in JAR's room: NE book, p. 245, Haney asks Patsy if she has ever seen the rope or anything like it around, pointing to picture 115. His description of the rope end is that it was "unusally secured." Then Patsy replies she's never seen it nor one "done like that." When John was asked about the rope, it's not quoted in the book; it just says he said no, he didn't recognize it.

    So now I'm thinking this rope was secured as Jayelles and EW said, tied around at the end, not taped completely like I had thought. It's neatly done, I might add. Just wonder what it's tied with. I don't think it's tape, but can't be sure from the photo. It seems dark, if it's thread or twine or some such. It looks fine, like nylon, if it's something like that.

    I found the part where John is asked about the sweater on the end of the bed, p. 375:

    Makes you wonder even more about what Patsy wore the night of the White's party, doesn't it?

    Here is where Patsy spoke about JB not wanting to wear the red top/shirt/sweater matching Patsy's (Patsy goes out of her way in every interview to confuse tops/sweaters/panties/clothes, doesn't she?) From the NE book, p. 47, April, '97 interview with Thomas and Tom Trujillo:

    OK, I think the emphasis is different than I first perceived it on the sentence "And she didn't want to wear the red shirt just because I was wearing it." In other words, I was reading that JonBenet didn't want to wear the shirt BECAUSE Patsy had hers on, as well, but I think now Patsy meant JB wasn't amenable to wearing the red shirt instead of her favorite white shirt, and the fact that Patsy had her red shirt on didn't change JB's mind IN FAVOR OF THE RED SHIRT. If this makes any sense. That's the downside of not seeing the tape and body language.
     
    Last edited: Mar 8, 2006
  15. Cranberry

    Cranberry Member

    Bead Kit

    Patsy's 6/98 interview (line 536 and 537) describes the bead kit as different colored beads that you put on a design board and melt the colors together. She got it from Patsy for Christmas. Ironing board was on the 2nd floor in the laundry area.
     
  16. koldkase

    koldkase FFJ Senior Member

    Thanks, Cranberry. I have never seen something like this melting beads kit. What kind of kit were the girls and John and White playing with at the White's house? Was that also a melting kit? Because I'd been thinking it was putting together beads on cords, that kind of thing. No?

    Guess it's google time. sigh
     
  17. koldkase

    koldkase FFJ Senior Member

    OK, I think I might have found the black pants, and maybe the coat...or a coat...or both...or neither. But I did find the multi-colored sweater in the picture of JB's bed. Of course, where else, but at ACR's website.

    Here is the first picture, and I just realized that is a trunk also at the foot of the bed, with a piece of clothing lying on it. That could be the coat or the pants in question. I only figured out this was a trunk because in the NE book picture section, it shows a picture of JonBenet's door from the hall/stair viewpoint, and there was something odd I couldn't identify, with an arch at the top of it. After much fussing around with the floor plans and pictures, it hit me: it's a trunk with a curved top. I have such a hard time putting these pictures together with the floor plans. Anyway, Patsy's sweater on the bed and some dark clothing, I believe, on the trunk:

    http://www.acandyrose.com/002jonbenetbed.jpg

    This is the picture of the twin bed, still made, with a dark clothing item lying on it. I thought for the longest time this was a sweater, but now I see it could very well be the black pants. I see the infamous Santa Teddy the Rams sent the world on a wild goose chase to find, as well. There are also two other items lying beside the black clothing which I can't figure out: one is multi-colored and looks like it's elongated, maybe a long sockish typy of thingie...? The other is something hard to even see, whitish and possibly sheer or something...? I don't know, I can't make head nor tales of those items:

    http://www.acandyrose.com/005jonbenetbed.jpg

    Now, I also noticed the long curtain tie hanging over JB's headboard, mentioned many times. If someone was looking for a possible scarf hanging of some sort....

    Here is the url to the actual full page of various crime scene pictures at ACRs, from which I got these:

    http://www.acandyrose.com/crimescene-discovery.htm
     
  18. icedtea4me

    icedtea4me Member

    From DOI pg 8 (hb version)-

    After supper, Fleet and I eventually ended up on the living room floor making paper jewelry with JonBenet and Daphne, the Whites' six-year-old daughter. Although it was a child's toy, quite a bit of dexterity was required to make the little paper beads from scratch. Everyone poked fun at the sight of these two grown men (Fleet is a big guy, over six feet tall and upwards of two hundred fifty pounds) sitting on the floor with the girls, trying to wind little strips of colored paper into beads to be strung into a necklace.

    So, no, it wasn't the same kit and I'm thinking that these little cylindrical paper beads would have been most likely strung together using needle and yarn, as opposed to cord.

    -Tea
     
  19. EasyWriter

    EasyWriter FFJ Senior Member


    Speculation, by definition, recognizes the possibility of an
    alternative. What I said about the physics and logical inferences
    of the “garroteâ€\â€wrist ties†scene is not speculation. You can
    take this to the bank. No matter how much the RST cries and
    denies, this truth will not go away. It was an amateurishly
    staged crime scene. On the other hand, the physics concerning how
    the skull fracture came about involves numerous variables and
    unknowns that leaves me with what I call high probability, but
    admittedly speculative in some degree. What remains is that I
    address your well stated and well justified inquiry by presenting
    my thinking leading to my conclusions. What remains for you is
    not blind acceptance, but only to evaluate my explanation - which
    I am sure was your intent in the first place. :)

    We all deal in physics ever day. What particular physics and what
    particular applications are, of course, infinitely variable.
    Experience and theory determines our conclusion and actions in
    any give field at any given time. Among other variables, the
    skull fracture involves area, structure, force and time. It is
    the time element that is often not understood, hence, not
    incorporated. Foregoing, a long dissertation, the speed of energy
    (force\power) released at any given time and place is always a
    determining factor. For instance, in a flash bulb camera, a
    direct connection to the batteries will not work. The energy
    release is too slow. The flash of a flash bulb camera depends on
    the voltage from the batteries stored in a quick release circuit.
    You can’t push a machete through a one inch branch, but can cut
    it easily by swinging the machete. We also have the physics of
    the arc (dome) that gets it’s strength via distributing force
    toward the stronger vertical. I was taught in breaking large rock
    to never attack it from a crown area because it distributes force
    over a wider area rather than centering the force to sever the
    rock. A skull is a similar construction and behaves in a similar
    manner although a different set of variables.

    The two dimensional photo does not give the detail desired, but
    Dr. Meyer’s description provides a pretty good picture. Most
    importantly:

    “At the superior extension of this area of hemorrhage is a linear
    to comminuted skull fracture which extends from the right
    occipital to posteroparietal area forward to the right frontal
    area across the parietal portion of the skull. the
    posteroparietal area of this fracture is a roughly rectangular
    shaped displaced fragment of skull measuring one and
    three-quarters by one-half inch.â€...The hemorrhage and the
    fracture extend posteriorly just past the midline of the
    occipital area of the skull. This fracture measures approximately
    8.5 inches in length. (Autopsy report)

    From back to front along the side\ridge of the skull provides
    general angle and approximate severity of the impact. The
    displaced skull fragment provides approximate point of impact.
    The fact of no scalp laceration in spite of the severe skull
    damage indicates a large contact area and relative slow speed
    with the force distributed via a dome structure.

    Since a Maglite was found in the vicinity, it has often been
    named as the object wielded to cause the skull fracture. The
    Maglite head shows a narrow ridge area that would necessarily be
    primary contact. The shaft itself is round with small area of
    potential contact. Given the physics of the Maglite, weight and
    form, and the physics of the skull and skull fracture, I cannot
    envision the Maglite being wielded with sufficient speed and
    force to cause such a fracture; especially, without breaking the
    scalp.

    In the category of potential objects wielded, I thought of a
    large iron skillet, heavy wood cutting board, or something of
    that nature. I have nothing to support the idea of heavy wielded
    object. I have seen no photos of such objects in handy places. I
    cannot, with any known evidence, accept the notion of wielded
    object.

    How then? Forceful head contact with a large flat, or near flat,
    stationary object such as a wall, or movable heavy object such as
    a refrigerator, range, etc. Since I am not familiar with the
    interior of the house, I cannot name specific potentials as the
    object of contact. However, I can envision a scenario that is
    compatible with the scene known and the physics indicated by the
    factors of the skull fracture.

    From the staged crime scene intended to hide skull fracture as
    the cause of death, I presume culpability as opposed to innocent
    accident. I envision a confrontation between Patsy and JonBenet
    that went beyond verbal into the physical. Indeed, the physical
    confrontation logically implies that JonBenet refused to yield to
    Patsy’s verbal command. Then came the “laying on of hands†by
    Patsy.

    How laid on with what intent? To drag, or otherwise compel,
    JonBenet to go to bed? Envision Patsy holding JonBenet by the
    wrist and trying to pull her to where she wanted JonBenet to be.
    Envision JonBenet lunging backward trying to escape. Imagine
    Patsy’s grip letting go just as JonBenet lunged backward. Imagine
    that JonBenet went down on her bottom a foot (maybe two of so)
    from a wall, or large heavy object. Imagine the force from the
    lunge backward transferred to the upper body as her bottom
    contacted the floor. The initial energy magnified (transferred to
    point with increased speed) by the whiplash created a tremendous
    force. The apex receptor of this tremendous force was the
    rear\side crowned area of JonBenet’s head as it made contact with
    something large, heavy and flat, or nearly flat. `

    As you can see, I’m not talking about an ordinary fall. Once
    again, I admit to speculation, but speculation consistent with
    known facts. Of all the scenarios I have envisioned to try to
    explain without contradiction, this is the one I consider most
    likely.
     
  20. Elle

    Elle Member

    NE Police Files paraphrased - Page 248

    Patsy Ramsey was shown photographs of what she had worn to the White's party during her police interview. she had on black velvet pants, a red top, with a red and black checkered jacket, which was similar to a jacket owned by Priscilla White.

    Up until Patsy had seen these photos, she thought she had on her Christmas sweater. What a load of lies. Most women would remember what they wore on Christmas night to a party. However, Patsy has the audacity to say that maybe she had on Priscilla's jacket. That she could have been in Priscilla's living room, and being cold, Priscilla could have told her to put it on.

    Talk about throwing your best friend under a bus! Patsy Ramsey is as brazen as brass.
     
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