Burke or Bust!

I also find it beyond the pale...

...that Burke was sent to the White's on the 26th, while John and Patsy went to the Fernies home.

...and that even at the funeral, Burke was seated AWAY FROM HIS MOTHER and FATHER.

Why? and WHY?

Only as a counterpoint: The van Dam children were seated next to their parents at Danielle's funeral...both parents and both young children cried. This seemed like an extremely appropriate seating arrangement and response to an extremely tragic situation where their daughter/sibling was kidnapped from a residential home and found murdered.

I've always thought (to my ear) that the background conversation that was amplified by the sound lab, with John Ramsey snapping at Burke, "We're not talking to you!" was extraordinarily harsh considering the ransom note said that dangerous terrorists have his other child and may murder her.

Yes...stress counts for something...but not all. It was an odd thing to say.

And Burke said back to this angry John, "What do I do?"

What do I do.

How did he have the courage to get out that come-back to an enraged John Ramsey? Why was that the big question on his mind?

The other thing was that John was drinking vodka to excess all morning, even before finding the body.

Didn't the note say it was "up to you now, John" to (among other things) drive to drop off the ransom?

Why didn't John stay sober enough to drive? How could a CEO be so self-centered and out-of-control that he got drunk before the body was discovered?

If John believed in the directions given in the ransom note, which plainly mapped out that it was all up to John to abide strictly by the note to have any chance of getting JonBenet back alive, why didn't he stay sober enough to drive?

 

Burke

When officer Patterson questioned Burke at the Whites, did Burke tell the officer that he was sleeping? Did Burke lie to the officer, and if so, why?

Dunvegan, I don't believe John was drinking until after he and Patsy left their home and went to the Fernies.

What really is bothering me about that morning is the RN.

"We are monitering you. You are under constant scrutiny"....Did John or the Police ever look for hidden microphones or hidden cameras in the home? What about the area surrounding the Ramsey home? Nothing was ever mentioned regarding searching inside or outside the home for either.

John says that he told Burke that JonBenet was missing. Burke starts to cry. Burke sees Policemen in his home. Wouldn't a normal child Burke's age be so terrified as to not want to leave Mom and Dad? Why didn't Burke protest? "Mom, Dad, I'm scared. Please, I don't want to leave you, I want to stay here with you?"

 

It's amazing

how most posters state their kids would have acted much differently in Burke's place, and I wholeheartedly agree with that. There is a possibility that as the morning wore on I would have sent my children with my parents because of the intense situation inside that house, but to just pull him out of bed and send them to a friend's house without questioning him or comforting him is way beyond the pale to me. In fact, my kids would not have left my sight without a very responsible adult and police protection in that case, and if they didn't want to go, I would not insist.

So, even though I know people react differently to situations, most people I know and most posters think it was odd that Burke was sent out of that house first thing that morning.

Further, I agree that Burke was a bit odd, but so is John Ramsey from what I have read about him. I've been led to believe that JR was quiet, didn't talk much, didn't react much, but did have a temper sometimes. Burke sounds like his father, while JBR was more like Patsy, I think. Still, speaking strictly as the mother of three daughters who are now grown, my little girls would have been asking all kinds of questions. Burke told investigators he remembered hearing muffled voices sometime in the night. But, he didn't tell his parents? My girls would have told me, no doubt in my mind. My girls would have cried because their sister was missing. They would have been frightened and would have clung to me. I know they would have gone nowhere with anyone except their grandparents or aunts.

Obviously, I wasn't there, so I can't determine Burke's body actions or the look on his face, but everything I have read has made me think Burke was very detached from it all. Perhaps he was in shock. He was only nine years old, poor kid.

 

just a thought...

just a thought about Burke's comment about "getting on..."

Although this might be the result of coaching, it also could easily be the result of what he has overheard his parents say. As purr noted, JR had said something very similar, and I'll bet that isn't the only time JR or PR had used that phrase. Kids listen, even if they don't always fully understand. And what they hear often turns up in their own conversations - especially when they don't fully know what to say on their own.

Also, do you really think PR and JR would intentionally coach Burke to say something like that? Do you think they are stupid enough not to realize that it WOULD sound bogus coming from a 10 year old? Sorry, but I don't.

It's kind of interesting to see the Ramseys portrayed as criminal masterminds, devising an elaborate cover-up, figuring out ways to plant some stranger's DNA, etc., and capable of maintaining their cool while their kids lies dead beneath them, then to see them portrayed as idiots who would go around confessing indirectly and coaching their kid to say implausible sorts of things. LOL

 

That's why this case is compelling, fly

It's a mix of great good luck on their part and mistakes that would have cooked the goose of any criminal without their bankroll. But I'm of the mind that their arrogance is all bluster and they're constantly waiting for that knock on the door.

Excellent thoughts about JR, Dunv, and Burke from many of you.

I wouldn't be surprised if Burke is a pilot by now. Planes are cheap enough to rent and who better to teach him than JR? It would be excellent bonding for them. As I recall JAR got his license while still a teen. In my experience with Cessna and Beechcraft owners, it's something you pass along to all family members with great relish. Patsy probably flies too, though she may not have a license.

 

to fly

i am sure burke was not allowed to watch television after her sister was murdered.........so.....he did not see or hear his dad make that comment......."we just want to get on with our life".
and john would have only started saying this after jonbenet was murdered.

of course, burke was coached to say that.
it is NOT a normal thing for a kid to say!!!
sometimes fly.......your logic does not fly!

i never thought of the ramsey's as criminal masterminds.
i have always thought of them as damn lucky that they were able to cover their butts and hardly leave any evidence. they knew they had to scramble and cover any trace of their stupid
mistake.......or stupid accident......or stupid intentional killing.
masterminds......NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!

their motive......they did not want to spend their lives in prison.......they had to cover their "spoiled asses".

and geez louise........they did not plant mysterious DNA on jonbenet. yea right, now where would they get that DNA from
if only the 3 of them were in the house? that DNA will not prove or disprove anything. it is there by accident only!!!!

you have to realize by now......that all the fbi profilers know that the murderer came from inside that house. and that the ransom note writer came from inside that house.

poor burke.....he is really screwed for life!

 

purr

purr - Geeze louise, the idea that the Ramseys planted the DNA of some poor smuck has been discussed numerous times. <b>I</b> don't believe that, nor did I say <b>you</b> believe that, but others apparently think it's possible or they wouldn't have discussed it. As to where they would have gotten it, the suggestions included from a discarded shirt left by one of the workmen, from a toilet (either after their party, during remodeling, or from some public toilet).

Purr, the fact that something is pretty idiotic doesn't mean somebody doesn't consider it a reasonable possibility. Heck, at least one person seriously suggested that JBR's death was a suicide because she didn't want to participate in pageants any more, and that the Ramseys did the coverup to avoid the shame of the suicide.

My comments about the Ramseys as masterminds was not directed specifically to you, purr. My comment reflected a whole range of past discussions, not just the current one. You'll see the reference to the past if you read what I said.

It doesn't matter if Burke was allowed to watch TV. As I noted, I doubt that JR's interview was the only time something like that was said. What I think is very possible is that Burke heard something like that said in conversations at home. Surely you have heard your kids parrot something you've said. I have, more than once. Kids hear things, and they often repeat those things.

I've acknowledged there's a chance the Ramseys are so stupid they coached him to say that. Why don't you acknowledge that it is also quite possible that what I'm suggesting is what happened?

Why, is it so difficult to see that even if a Ramsey killed JBR, it doesn't necessarily follow that they are responsible for every "weird" comment, nor that it is justifiable to interpret every word and every action as evil, or as evidence of guilt, or as the result of scheming manipulation and distortion?

Why is it so difficult to able to recognize that there is more than one possible explanation?

Why is it so difficult to understand that just because somebody points out an alternative idea doesn't mean that they are ignoring important information or even that they differ in their theory of who the killer likely was?

 

uuuuhhhh

Somebody thought JBR killed herself to get out of being in pageants? You are kidding, right?

 

I can top that Fly--I heard an on-air interview with a friend of OJ Simpson's who was certain that Ron and Nicloe KILLED THEMSELVES! And then this guy really brought the house down when he revealed that they killed themselves for the INSURANCE MONEY.

Yes--I heard this with my own ears.

 

not kidding

BobC - No, I'm not kidding.

 

Hmmm

Are there any insurance money stories floating around regarding this case?

 

LOLOLOLOL

BobC - You've got the prize, for sure.

Some folks' level of intelligence is truly breathtaking, isn't it?

Edited to correct an error in grammar.

 

Purr

Food for thought. Don't you imagine that John also made the statement, "we just want to get on with our life," to friends? Burke likely could have heard it repeatedly in his own home as well as when visiting friends. Maybe rephrased a bit, but IMHO, that statement has been used more than in the one TV airing.

 

It's frightening to me, Fly. I have a friend named Rob who is without question the dumbest person I have ever known. His car had an oil leak to the point where he was adding a quart a day. Then one day he decided it was costing too much money to buy all that oil, so he just stopped putting any in. Just stopped. Three days later his engine melted. To this day he doesn't quite see the lapse in logic there.

Another time, I found out that he lost his drivers license in Florida due to his having an epileptic siezure and crashing his car a few years ago. I noticed he is now driving in Austin, and then thought to myself how does this guy get insurance without a drivers license? So I asked Rob if he had insurance--and I swear to God, this is the exact response he gave me:

"To the best of my knowledge."

 

Well, what I want to know, BobC

is how does this guy get plates for his car without insurance? In this state - no insurance, no plates - and you'd better have those plates turned in like immediately after you stop paying your insurance because they will come looking for you. Mayhap he doesn't know where he got his plates, either? hahahahahahaha

 

He still has his plates from Florida, WY. I'd be surprised if he has anything legit at this point. Nothing would surprise me. He just got a job as a waiter and on the first day he called me up and told me how he'd gotten into a fight with the lead cook. Rob stormed up to the manager on that FIRST DAY and told the manager that "we" had to get rid of the lead cook TODAY!

 

Burke's remark

About Burke's remark about "getting on with my life." I agree children pick up on remarks, but if this remark was picked up by Burke, with his parents being the ones who may have made it, then it was picked up very shortly after JonBenét was murdered, which is the crux of the matter.

 

thank you elle

i see you understood my point.

and fly i get what you are saying too.

yes, there are many possibilities on what happened.

but they can be narrowed down to a few possibilities
because of evidence and logic and expertise.

the truth is out there somewhere.

and i believe the 3 people in the house that night know
exactly what happened!!

and that was my point about burke....he knows what happened, but he was taken away that early morning before he could
blab anything!!!

 

Burke and an interview

Have any of you ever wondered that, several years from now, where Burke's all grown up, his parents are long deceased and he may even be married and have children, may come forward and reveal what happened to his sister that night? I mean, he may be a little nervous at first, but his wife, if any, may encourage him to tell all he knows so he can get justice for JonBenet, which she long deserves. Who knows?

I am not surprised if Burke ever gives an interview at some point or another. He's considered a legal adult now.

-Aja