Challenging Smit!

Ha,ha,ha,ha,ha,ha! Does this remind you of anything, Thor? Remember we fell into this poetry mode a long time ago. Looks like GL has been drinking the same stuff.

Very clever, Greenleaf!

 

Skipping some more...

JR started a giggle, skip thee de-Lou
Thor laughed aloud, and Elle did too
Skip thee de-Lou, my darling
GL

 

I remember well, Elle! Greenie's poem is better than mine. Hell if I can even remember it now!

 

Yeah

Good work Greenleaf! :heart:

By the way, if there was glass on the suitcase, that tells me the suitcase was placed under the window BEFORE it was broken. Which is why Smit decided it MUST have gotten there via the "intruder's" foot, as he stepped on it to boost himself out. Only there was no other sign of a foot being placed on that suitcase, no scuff mark there, no indentation, no nothing. Just a piece of glass.

 

I don't have access to my books currently but I believe it was stated (in one of the books) that Fleet picked up some of the glass and laid it on the suitcase while John and Fleet were in the basement?

 

Thor, Elle, I wouldn’t even dream starting a poem, that isn’t exactly my strong point, already have problems keeping my lines straight But Greenie poem is right to the point! LOL. Thanks for bringing back in a light touch, since the whole thing is so frustrating at times.

DocG, no Smit came up with some other lame excuse for the glass to be on the suitcase! He says, it might have gotten there when the “intruder†might have used the suitcase to step on in order to out of the house again via that same window. And the spot on the suitcase might be a footprint. He sure uses a lot of might’s! Each time he has to adjust his theory if something doesn’t fit in, and is constantly covering himself by might be’s!

J_R, only read up to now, that Fleet While had put a piece of glass on the ledge when he was alone in the basement. Any idea which book?

 

Found one more entry......BUT..it is in DOI! I don't even know whether it is of any value. Anyhow here's the quote:

 

Sylvia.

In Perfect Murder Perfect Town, page 34, Fleet White tells the detectives that after the 6:00 am call from the Ramseys.they were there within minutes, and he searched the house. He went down to the basement. He found it cluttered and started his search in the train room where he saw a suitcase sitting under a broken window. He finds pieces of glass and places them on the windowsill. He then moves the suitcase a few feet to get a closer look at the window. White was sure the window was closed but unlatched.

 

Yes, White placed the glass he found on the windowsill NOT the suitcase. And yes, Smit claimed the glass got on the suitcase via the intruder's foot. But no, there is no mark on the suitcase, at least nothing visible on the photograph. The ONLY evidence of the intruder's foot is the piece of glass. But if the suitcase had been there when the window was initially broken (IMO earlier that night, NOT months earlier), then that would explain how it got on the suitcase. Since there are no other signs of a foot being place on the suitcase AND no signs that an intruder passed through the window, we are forced to the conclusion that the suitcase was present under the window when the glass was broken. Which tells us John seems to have lied about breaking it earlier.

 

I even get worse!

Elle, that quote from PMPT came right in time!

During the interrogations by the BPD in 1997 an 1998, John Ramsey states he went down to that basement room and finds the window open and latches it. Only when Fleet White is there alone the window is closed but unlatched. When both John Ramsey and Fleet White are there the window is closed and again unlatched.

Now Elle already established that Fleet White was in the basement shortly after 6 AM and before 6:45 AM as by that time Fleet White had searched the basement and called his wife asking her to come over. Window closed, latched! Suitcase move away from the wall! Right so far?

During the interrogations John Ramsey claims he was the somewhere between 7 AM and 9 AM, window open, not latched, suitcase against the wall. He states he looks for glass, but doesn't find any. Time spent in there varies from 30 seconds up to a minute. He also claims that when he was down there with Fleet White they looked for glass but couldn't find any. In DOI he states while being with Fleet White he found tiny pieces of glass.

Further Kane nails him down on time. Saying Arndt arrived at 8 AM and call was to come between 8 AM and 10 AM. He claims he was there alone, closing and latching the window before Arndt arrived.

Also in 1997 he states the window is open about an eight of an inch, in 1998 he states the window is open an inch or so….

Okay I am totally and completely lost now. How could it be that when Fleet White goes down before John Ramsey the window is closed but unlatched, while when Ramsey goes down alone it is open and unlatched? How could the window have been open and unlatched again when he and Fleet White were there together if he closed and latched it when he was there alone? Not only that but that suitcase seems to constantly be moving by itself too……

Fleet White didn’t open the window! Fleet White didn’t unlatch the window! So you mind I don’t get it any longer

What I do know is John Ramsey is lying about the window and about the time he was down in the basement alone. I believe he never latched or closed that window! He’s lying plainly.

 

Sylvia,

You can always tie yourself in knots reading more about this broken window. courtesy of ACR.

http://www.acandyrose.com/ramseycase-quotes1.htm

Linda Hoffman Pugh couldn't remember seeing a broken window in the basement, and neither did the gardener, Brian Scott (?).

 

Sylvia, regarding the timing of Fleet and John's visits to the window and what they claimed they saw and did I'm as confused as you are. Perhaps Fleet saw a slightly ajar window as "closed but unlatched" and John saw the same window as "open and unlatched." A matter of interpretation? Fleet does not claim to have latched it, so John would have seen what Fleet saw I suppose.

Elle, you are right on in seeing through Patsy's claim to have cleaned up the glass. Hoffmann-Pugh is on record as saying she was unaware of any broken window (PMPT). It's interesting that Patsy claims to have cleaned up every last chunk. Apparently she never read about all the glass that was still on the floor. After ALL that time, too.

 

whats up

with all of the "I mean" in Patsy's answer regarding the glass pieces? Does the repetition of that phrase indicate deception or an inability to express herself coherently?

 

It may have been put on the window ledge and not the suitcase. It's been a long time since I read the passage and I don't recall which book but I am thinking it's either Death Of Innocence or JonBenét: Inside the Ramsey Murder Investigation. Sorry I can't be more specific.

 

No problem J-R, the quote from DOI hardcover page 22 is:

Only other references in DOI I can find is that Ramseys is pointing at Fleet White for not telling him he was down in the basement before this time.

As for Inside the Ramsey Murder Investigation, Hardcover the only references I could find concerning Fleet White and the glass is at page 20:

Elle, I know it is in the NE The Police Files too. Her statement goes even further.

Paperback NE: The Police Files, page 82:

Frustrating huh!

DocG yes maybe a point of interpretation of whether the window was closed or not, but what about the times Ramsey claims he was there? What about the latching? That is not open for interpretation, neither is the finding of glass together with Fleet White.

In the 1997 interrogation he states:

NE Police Files pages 116:

Page 118.

During the 1998 interrogation he stated:

Same Police Files:

Now compare this with the statement in Steve Thomas's book, above finding the window closed and unlatched while being there with Fleet White when they found the body. Plus with the DOI reference in which he states him and Fleet White found piece of glass. DOI dates 2000.

Texan I really have no idea, why she stated that. But I do not underestimate Patsy Ramsey.

 

Both Ramseys never sound genuine

I would say both John and Patsy's feedback on everything is the same. Never sounds genuine to me. I can just hear Lin Wood advising them to repeat repeat repeat ..."I can't remember, or I can't recall!"

Thanks to ACR for her all her documentation. She's a treasure!

 

Pastey tried to hide her _
But all she used were shards of glass
Oldgoat Ram could see on through
the ploy employed by they, the two
And though he tried with all his "might"s,
Bull Smit couldn't get it right.
Is justice served? A baby's dead.
They hide and dodge and claim they're led
by God's great hand, and I'm no judge.
Still sounds a bit like toilet fudge
whenever they repeat the phrase
of what transpired on former days.
So who's to blame? We will not pout.
For when they die,
God sorts 'em out. :highfive:

 

Poet's corner

Very Clever, JC!

 

Quote:
Patsy Ramsey: "I mean I cleaned that thoroughly and I asked Linda to go behind me and vacuum. I mean I picked up every chunk, I mean, because the kids played down there in that back area back there. And I mean I scoured that place when, cause they were always down there. Burke particularly and the boys would go down there and play with cars and things and uh, there was just a ton of glass everywhere."

Texan, to answer your question ... it indicates deception because the repeated interjection of the useless phrase "I mean" is spoken primarily when a person is trying to "sell" or convince another of a certain point. Patsy also uses the phrase to stall for time as she makes up her answer.

When Patsy lies, she wanders all over the subject, never really answers questions, and can't give a straight "yes" or "no" answer. She uses linguistic stiff-arming, and verbal slight-of-hand.

I have copied one of my posts from WebSleuths that touches on Patsy using "fluff" words and repetitive phrasing in many of her responses to investigator's questions. It is another example of "Patsy-speak" when she's lying. Patsy can be very direct when she wants to be ... as when she got angry with Haney and told them to go back to the drawing board. Compare her speech then with the following, and see the difference.

05-10-2004, 09:04 PM
Cherokee
Registered User

(Detective Tom Haney asks Patsy what she did when she discovered the ransom note on the stairs ...)

Quote:
TOM HANEY: "Do you remember exactly what words you used? Was it more than just John or --"

PATSY RAMSEY: "I remember my voice just cracking. I mean it was like JOHN, like that. I mean like, I can't even, you know, I hear my scream and I hear his scream when he came up from the basement. I mean it was just a horrible thing. You know, it was just --"


This is an excellent example of Patsy's evasive, beat-around-the-bush, less than truthful answers to investigator's questions.

Like - Patsy reverts to "Valley Girl" talk three times in order to buy time and "pad" her answer since she can't tell what really happened.

Just - Patsy uses a "throwaway" word three times to pad her evasive non-answer.

You know - Patsy uses another "throwaway" phrase (that is also a "selling" phrase) two times to further pad her non-answer. "You know" is a phrase that begs agreement.

I mean - Patsy begins three sentences with this useless phrase that is spoken primarily when a person is trying to "sell" or convince another of a certain point.

It was - Patsy uses an impersonal pronoun and a past tense verb three times to describe "what"?

- it was "like John, like that."

- it was "just a horrible thing"

- it was "just ..."

Patsy can't even finish her sentences, and when she does, she tells us nothing. Let's look at the noun of the predicate to which the verb "was" is linked.

It was like that, it was a thing, and it was ....

In four and half sentences, Patsy tells us it was "that" and it was "thing." Lots of information there.

And last, but not least ...

I and my - In four and half sentences, Patsy uses the personal pronoun "I" seven times, and the possessive pronoun "my" twice. Patsy isn't giving information, she's thinking about herself and how she can get out of this question. It's me, me, me and I've got to save, save, save myself.

All Haney asked her was to tell him the exact words she used to call to John when she found JonBenet was missing. He asked for a relatively short answer. He asked, "Was it more than just John or - - "

All Patsy had to say was, "I screamed for John."

OR

"I screamed, 'John, come here! Hurry.'"

OR

something similar ...

Instead, we get the "War and Peace" of run-around answers that tells us nothing except Patsy is lying about what really happened.


IMO