Cherokee's Thread/Analysis

Cranberry, you are too kind. Thank you for those encouraging words.

Yes, Patsy's 911 call linguistics ARE very interesting and revealing as well. I have done some analysis of it in various posts on WS, and a little bit here, but as with the ransom note, I've never put it all in one place in complete form. Maybe after we get done with the different analyses of the ransom note, we can look at the 911 text from a psycho-linguistic standpoint.

It's great that you've already picked up three points from the call:

1. There is no mention of JonBenet's name in AT ALL just as it was missing from the ransom note. Who makes a "missing persons/kidnapping" report without giving the person's name? Patsy could only get through the enacting of her script on December 26th through a type of denial about JonBenet's death. One of the ways she did this was by not using JonBenet's name.

2. Patsy says "I am the mother" instead of "I am her mother" in yet another form of psychological distancing. In addition, by saying " I am the mother" it took the linguistic emphasis from JonBenet and put it on Patsy, THE mother. Thus, the psychological focus was shifted away from JonBenet. But then, the 911 call was never about JonBenet to begin with.

3. Patsy does not ask for help. She tells the operator they "have a kidnapping," gives minimal information about JonBenet ("she is blond, six years old"), and hangs up. The only thing she asks for is the operator to "send somebody." Why? Because that's all there is left to do. The Ramseys needed LE to find JonBenet's body so they can get out of the house and into the arms of their lawyers.

The 911 call was not a mother's cry for help, but more like a director's placement of actors before they shout "Places everyone ... and action!"

 

Great thread, fellow scumers and scumettes!

Elle, I think there were a few pages "missing" in that section of the pad, though one was found, as Cherokee mentioned. But the fact that the pages were from a sequence many pages into the pad not before used enabled LE to count those actually "missing" from the tears at the top. I forget the specific number.

Cherokee, as you know, the molestation is what made John THE prime suspect for a time...right up until the ransom note revealed Patsy was all over the crime. But it sounds like your analysis on the rest of the note may reveal more. Looking forward to it.

Good idea, Cranberry, to bring in the 911 call. It's as odd as the note. And there is one part that really stuck out for me when I heard it aired: about half way through, the dispatcher asks Patsy if the note "says who did it," and Patsy is halted for a millisecond in her tracks: "What?!" Patsy asks, INCREDULOUSLY. Something about Patsy's tone struck me as...if she were stunned by the question. So I listened again...and it hit me: Patsy, with all the guilty knowledge she had going on in her head, thought the dispatcher asked her if the note "said YOU did it?" She WAS shocked, IMO. After all her/their careful planning, the dispatcher ALREADY KNEW THE TRUTH! But the dispatcher repeats the questions and Patsy is relieved to answer...SBTC. She is very flustered by that point, which she claims in later LE interviews she never reached the end of the note before calling 911. And we KNOW she didn't ask John what it said, did she, who HAD THE NOTE ON THE FLOOR, according to them, when the call was made. We know because we would have HEARD HER ASK HIM. Didn't happen.

Anyhow...good points, Cranberry, about JonBenet's name not being used in the 911 call, either. Distancing. "I'm THE mother...." "WE have a kidnapping...."

Neither Patsy nor John even QUESTIONS if the note is a hoax, if the kids have been playing at something. Do they bother to search the house? Go to Burke's room to see if she's there and question him BEFORE panicking? Nope, they jump IMMEDIATELY to SHE'S BEEN KIDNAPPED mode, yet from their own retelling of the events they had NO FEAR of those kidnappers still being IN the home, NEVER thought that if they were, JonBenet might be saved, or that THEY MIGHT STILL BE IN DANGER...BURKE, AS WELL...just look in the bedroom, check on Burke, "asleep" (NOT), don't even ask him if he heard anything, leave him ALONE AGAIN in a house intruders have entered to take JonBenet, a house which twists and turns and has two stairways to his room.... Give me a break. I've had my house burgled. The FIRST THING YOU FEEL IS FEAR THAT DANGEROUS PEOPLE HAVE BEEN IN YOUR HOME...and you feel very, very vulnerable.

 

This stuff is just excellent...

Real life has been keeping me way too busy and I've had no time to post, but have been trying to keep up with reading here.

This stuff that is being posted is excellent. I stopped discussing the Ramsey case a couple of years ago because there were constantly RSTers always trying to disrupt the conversation and it seemed to just be arguing against insanity. Also, I felt that nothing new could ever be said that hadn't been said.

I am so appreciating the peace and quiet here where Chero and KK and everyone else can actually have a good discussion about the note without disruption....thank you Tricia for that!

I had never thought about the depth of linguistics involved in the note until Chero's analysis here. I hadn't thought about Patsy's "hold" over John as evidenced by her linguistics in the last part of the note.

Like so many, I've hovered with wondering about the extent of John's involvement, and I keep thinking of John's demeanour that morning....the foot tapping etc. The fact that he gave LE the notepad spontaneously would seem to me to indicate that he wasn't involved in writing the note.

As many others have said, I can't see John letting such a ridiculous ransom note "go through to the keeper". If he knew about it, surely he would have told Patsy to scrap it and write a conventional 3 liner, as most men would do.

The rambling feminised note to me seems not something that a terse, business-like person would consider leaving for the police...it would be almost embarrassing I reckon.

But, when he did figure out what had happened, there was a very strong reason that he made the silent pact with Patsy and he's never deviated from that.

Chero and KK...you should write a book....seriously!!

 

Zotto,

I'm wondering at the time of the ransom note having been supposedly found first by Patsy, and then moved to the floor by John Ramsey ( so he says), that neither Patsy nor John mentioned to each other that it was written on their own notepad (?). I wonder why this wasn't talked about more.

I think John Ramsey must have known it was his wife
at first glance of the ransom note, because he must have known just how dramatic Patsy could be, with her journalistic skills and acting ability. How could he miss it?

 

Yes, I remember there were a few sheets missing KK in the 20's or something like that. Steve Thomas wrote about those in his book, but Patsy forgot to tear out a few pages that had one or two words at the top. So ridiculous! This person had all the time in the world to waste time after a killing. Not the normal routine of a killer, I'm thinking.

Did LE have to be hit over the head to put it all together, before an arrest was made? Once again we have D.A. Alex Hunter to thank for thwarting this. We all know that the evidence leads back to the Ramseys and that stupid twit Alex Hunter would not authorise their arrest. He should be charged himself for negligence in this case.

 

Exactly Elle, and I think that it's that point that negates (in my mind at least) John actually helping Patsy with the staging. If he was in on the staging then he was in on the ransom note writing and I simply can't see him having anything to do with such a crazy note.

You would think that as soon as he saw it he MUST have figured out that it had Patsy written all over it. How could he not see that? They had been married for years and most married couples are very familiar with each other's writing style. I would guess that Patsy's habit of acronyms and exclamation points would have stuck out like a sore thumb.

But then, if he realised Patsy had written it, and that it was on notepaper that they had in their house, why did he give it up so willingly to LE? Maybe because initially he had a wife huffing and puffing and shouting etc, then police and everyone else arriving and he really didn't think through the consequences of that.

If John truly knew nothing about the night's events and he woke up to this chaotic scenario, it would have been a pretty confusing crazy time for him, so maybe those few slip ups were genuine.

 

Zotto, this is consistent with one of my two favorite scenarios - Patsy did it all by herself (my other is Patsy did it because she found John with JonBenet and went batsh*t; then later, they staged everything together).

John had probably spent time in this marriage listening to the drama queen rage about this or that, and his usual way of dealing with that was to let it go. So when he woke up on the 26th, he wasn't prepared to take charge of the situation.

Slowly over the morning he began to figure things out, and he had to make a few decisions. I believe that the number one decision he made was to protect Burke, the child he still had, and the best way to do that was to let Patsy's story play out. And our John is believed to be somewhat cold, so I think that one of the calculations he made was that he wouldn't have to keep this up for too long, because Mrs. Ramsey wasn't long for this world. (She even brought this up in the early CNN press conference - I'll be with you soon, JonBenet.) Who knew that Miss Stage IV would be a miracle case!!!

This is likely, I believe, whether John was in on it or not. I think the note may suggest he was - "It's up to you now, John!" - but I'm not sure.

At any rate, KoldKase etc are right - Alex Hunter had to see that this note screams "I am Patsy Ramsey" and he sucks for not arresting her.

Looking forward to your next installment, Cherokee!!!

 

Changed this post. Couldn't delete (?). Sorry!


Elle

 

Yes, Zotto, the handing over of her notepad baffled me too, which may have been through genuine confusion as you state here, but with Patsy and John Ramsey, the question is always at the back of my mind, that every move they made, they had carefully gone over it with a fine tooth comb. The end result for them was in their favour.

The Ramseys couldn't even be charged with an accidental death here, due to the garrote which portrayed a pedophile sex game gone wrong, and yet when I think of the garrote, all I can think of is Delmar England taking one look at the picture of this amateur contraption, and with his expertise in knots, he knew it was staged. This was before he even got involved much deeper into this case.

http://www.acandyrose.com/05262001delmaranalysis2.htm

 

Oh, you guttah scum are cooking!

I have long leaned to Patsy's father being the family's "dirty little secret." I've listed some of those stronger reasons on the thread about Patsy's bad memory.

The problem I have with Patsy doing it all is the garrote. I know it's possible, but it's just too well constructed for someone who has no idea to LUCK OUT on making it for some pseudo-kidnapper staging for me to not wonder, how did she know that? John--many ways I can think of for him to come up with that thing quickly: navy training, hunting stuff, sailing stuff. But then Patsy sailed along with John, didn't she?

Or maybe Patsy was the one something like that was used on when she was a child...? Det. Haney wasn't asking her about her or her sisters being sexually abused for nothing, was he?

I bet you money LE knows exactly what happened that night...and why.

I was also looking at a timeline today, and had forgotten about Patsy calling Dr. Beuf three times on Dec. 17--no one knows why but Patsy and the good Dr.

JAR left town on Dec. 19th. Grandpa Paugh left suddenly on Christmas Eve, standby flight, arriving in Atlanta the same night, with JAR arriving in Atlanta that night, as well. Was Grandpa Paugh at the party on the 23rd? Do we know? That's the three days before the murder evening when 911 was accidently called.

Or was Patsy holding something over John's head about those prior vaginal injuries. Did she catch John at something she was holding over his head? Or did she catch JAR? Burke? Or was she angry at John for something else?


Whatever, I agree with you, Zotto, that John had to have the wheels turning in his head when he read that note if he already wasn't in on it. He had to know the references it took the rest of us years to find out.

OK, we'll see what Patsy has to tell us in Cherokee's continuing analysis.

Very strange goings on in the Ramsey family that Christmas. Maybe not by themselves, but add in a child murder with hideous violence and molestation...and it's worth considering these things in that context.

 

It isn't too well constructed at all KK. Anyone who took Macramé could have done this. I have made more complicated knots in Macramé than those on this so called garrote. I agree with Delmar England. Any child could have made this. Patsy I believe was into all arts and crafts.

 

Yep, but remember how quickly Patsy could think on her feet?...like when she was with John and his ex-girlfriend came to the door? Thinking quickly and making things up as she went I would imagine was pretty easy for Patsy. Even writing the ransom note, she didn't really start losing her composure until getting towards the end. I don't think fashioning a garrote would have been too difficult for a creative, arty person like Patsy.

She decided early on that offence was the best defence...maybe with the exception of being asked about being sexually abused....as you said...that REALLY took her aback and she could barely speak.

 

You are right, Elle. Actually it's kind of sloppy, but it's macrame. The part where she attached the cord to the paintbrush is a variation on a half-hitch knot, which was then covered up with several over-knots to secure the loose end. The knots on the "garrotte" and hand ties look like Lark's head knots used to anchor your macrame work to a dowel or ring or broken paintbrush. The cord photos are on acandyrose.com where the autosy report is. (BTW the cord looks to me like drapery notions cord you can buy at the fabric store.)

 

Wombat and Zotto,

Patsy Ramsey and JonBenét both had Navy blue jackets with white trim. These jackets with the white trim have been discussed many times. You may have seen them (?). Will try and post them later.

Patsy was a mother who liked JonBenét to dress like her, and there is a photo of JonBenét on the back of the Ramsey book "Death of Innocence" wearing her navy jacket, and this looks as if Patsy trimmed JB's jacket herself, with this flat braided trim, which goes over the edge of JonBenét's lapels. This is the same type of trim used for the amateur garrote.

Patsy's Jacket looks like it was bought with the trim, not hand sewn like JB's.

Glad you could even name the Macrame knots Wombat, thank you! I was never that good at that part, but I did make plant hangers.

 

Well, Elle, it's like this - Hi, my name is wombat, and I am an addicted knitter who has also dabbled in macrame - also lots of crochet and sewing.

I remember you bringing up those jackets before, and I didn't agree that the trim could be the same as the garrotte cord, because trim cord (and braid and piping) comes with a flap of muslin along the side to allow it to be sewn into a seam. When you make a garment from scratch, this is what is commonly done.

HOWEVER, drapery and macrame cords are sold plain without the muslin. SO, if somebody already had a jacket that needed to be modified to match another, you'd use that and hand-sew it on.

I'm thinking I'll bet the $118,000 KoldKase saved me that this is where the cord came from, Elle.

I further bet the cops never looked at this stuff, by the way. Too girly. Plus mothers never kill their daug hters.

 

Ooooh, Wombat ... I'm betting SOMEBODY'S $118,000 you are absolutely right! :thumbsup:

You are obviously know what you're talking about, and it all fits. One of the navy jackets was made by scratch with the trim cord with muslin flap sown into the seam. The other navy jacket was store bought, and the plain drapery/macrame cord was hand-sewed on top of the fabric. iViola! Matching mother and daughter navy jackets with white trim!

"And guess what, there's some of that plain drapery/macrame cord left over. I'll just toss it in my little paint tote here as I might use it to hang some of my pictures later."

I also agree wholeheartedly about Patsy and the macrame knot on the "garrote" cord. A couple of years ago, I was looking through a book on different knots, and it hit me how similar the macrame "half-hitch" was to the garrote knot. I'm glad we have a macrame expert such as yourself who can verify the garrote knot was NOT sophisticated, and that Patsy could have easily fashioned it from her macrame knowledge. You were even able to tell how she modified it. Fantastic.

 

I understand what you are both saying, Elle and wombat, and you may be right. Did anyone here post any pictures from a NE or Globe sometime in the last year with a picture of clear plastic storage bins in the Ramsey basement with various types of cords/ribbons/something like that inside? I may still have the tab if nobody saw it. I hadn't seen it before myself and immediately thought, well, why didn't anyone in LE think of that cord coming from THERE? Or maybe they did and we don't know about it.

At any rate, my point is not that Patsy couldn't have made the garrote like that. My point is why would she think about doing it like that? With a handle? I mean, she's staging a cord around JonBenet's neck--pick your reason why that was necessary in her mind--and she decides to tie a HANDLE on it? I have also done macrame, in my earlier crafty years, but I'd never think of putting a handle on that thing. (Imagining that I'd ever think of any of this is impossible, though.) I mean...WHY A HANDLE AT ALL?

See, it's not that hard to think of someone being strangled with a cord...or hanged with a noose...or some variation we've all seen portrayed on TV and in movies many times. The ransom note is full of movie-like phrases and ideas. But I have never, ever seen anything like that garrote handle. Why not just tie the noose? Why not just do a cross over true garrote? WHY A HANDLE?

Well, we can certainly imagine that a handle made it all much easier for leverage, can't we?

Oh. Wait a minute. Remember the lower, faint bruise-line on JonBenet's neck? OH, maybe...she tried it first and couldn't get it tight. So she added the paintbrush handle for leverage a second try...?

In that case, maybe the first try was upstairs in her bed. Remember, I've asked if anyone here has a copy of the first printing of the Ramsey book DOI IN PAPERBACK? In that edition of the paperback, they added a section at the back of "new evidence." They said that there were fibers from the cord found in JB's bed. That was something none of us knew.

I read this new stuff standing in my grocery--wouldn't buy the book as I had a hardback I bought in the bargain bin for $4. But I went to find a copy in the bookstore to check on that info last year, and I couldn't find it in any of the newer printings of the paperback. Maybe I just looked in the wrong place or missed it, but that's why I asked if anyone here had a paperback edition with that info in the back. I'd like to know if that evidence was for real or if the Ramseys made it up or were mistaken. If that passage was later removed from the paperback...why?

But if the info is true, and that is something I have thought of in context of the evidence in JonBenet's bedroom and JAR's room and the laundry area, it does alter some things, like where did the cord come from? Did the killer make a trip to the basement to get it? Or was it already upstairs? I've even thought of it being shoestring.

You know, that jogs my memory: DonBradley once identifed the cord as to what type and brand and so forth. I looked it up online and found it on retail websites for camping equipment, etc. Oh, gosh, I can hardly remember this, so I may be wrong about that. I'll have to see if I can find that again.

But...to follow through with the thought...if the garrote was first tied on JB in her bed...with matching cord fibers found there...maybe that's why she was taken to the paint tray...to get the paintbrush for leverage as a handle...and that would mean the killer knew the paintbrush was in the paint tray before bringing JB there...?

It would also pinpoint violent activity taking place in JonBenet's room before taking her to the basement...?

Maybe not. Just thinking it through here. Feedback?

 

This was the type of cord I meant Wombat. Hand sewn on the jacket. I wasn't thinking of any other kind.

 

From what I remember KK. Patsy Ramsey had a lot of craft stuff in the basement. With the amount of cord used for this ligature, it would need to have been sold by the yard. This is the cord I have always had in mind, nothing else!

 

For sure, you know this, Cherokee? So Patsy's jacket was not bought from a store? The trim on hers was much more professional looking than the very bad job of the lapels on JB's jacket. With Patsy being so fussy, one wonders how she allowed her to wear it (?).

On Ruthee's photographs on ACandyRose, one could see very clearly, the braid on the cord around JB's jacket was hand sewn. No way did I ever mean it was inserted between the lapels. Never!