Cherokee's Thread/Analysis

Ok

You are right about the cord fibres supposedly found in JB's bed KK...so...thinking about this. If there were some sort of accident in the bathroom...it makes sense doesn't it that the closest place that Patsy would have to lay JB's critically wounded body would be back on her own bed.

In fact, when my kids were little, if they hurt themselves, I always laid them on the couch or bed or somewhere soft to inspect their scrapes or bruises.

So...maybe Patsy laid JB on the bed and sat there for a few minnies, panicking and deciding what to do...concocting her "plan". Maybe it was conceived in the bedroom and she ran down the stairs to the basement to get the cord for the initial strangulation. Or maybe there was some cord lying around in JB's bedroom.

Weren't the hair ties pulled out and lying on the floor?...maybe Patsy was scrambling in the bedroom trying to find something to execute (literally) the first part of her staging plan?

Maybe Patsy ran down to the kitchen and grabbed the flashlight so she could look around the basement for the cord etc, without turning on the lights and disturbing the rest of the family?

 

Oh no, Elle, I didn't mean to imply I knew it FOR SURE. I was just thinking out loud and trying to follow what Wombat said could have happened with the two different types of trim cord. I know next to NOTHING about sewing ... although I know enough to see for myself you are absolutely right about JonBenet's jacket lapels. They look like something I would have done in 8th grade Home Ec.

 

OK, this is the upstairs part of the evidence I've struggled with for years.

I once wrote a long post that put together the evidence as far as I could manage, but of course, it's always just speculation about parts because what we hear today might not be what we are told tomorrow. All that spin...all that BS...just like the ransom note...obstructs the truth.

Remember the pics of JAR's half open bathroom drawers? Smit showed these, along with the ruffled bedskirt, bag of rope in that room, and said the intruder looked around in there and hid under the bed, possibly. (Smit couldn't put together a puzzle for 4 year olds.) Well, look at that in another way:

Patsy was packing in that bedroom that day. She and John say so in their own book. Smit also released pics of that bed, with clothing laid out on it, as well as an open suitcase, obviously in the middle of packing. Why any slick, ransom note writing, clever child killer who has gotten away with it for 8 years would HIDE under a bed in a bedroom where it's obvious someone is PACKING during the holidays and may continue to do just that when she shortly returns--therefore trapping him if she does for who knows how long...is beyond me. But...that's Smit logic. But I digress.... Patsy was packing in that room that day, had to leave the next morning early, had more packing to do for that...IOW, Patsy is the one who is centering her activities AROUND THAT AREA.

Think about the items in that area that have figured in this murder: JonBenet and her room are there; clothes gathered from that area by Patsy for the trip to Charlevoix...she says the morning JonBenet went "missing," but could have been the night before....

Hang on.... Patsy admitted in the '98 interviews that she took out some diapers for JonBenet to pack for the Big Red Boat trip...packing which was going on in JAR's room. Burke's knife went missing from the same cupboard where the new diaper package Patsy referred to was hanging out the morning of the "kidnapping."

But remember...there was ANOTHER knife in that area...which I thought was on the washing machine, over which the cupboard was located and the diaper package found hanging out.

Now...anybody remember a version of Patsy's story...was it in DOI?...when she said she was getting clothes from that area...washing out a jumpsuit of JB's...? Was there a sink there, as well. Oh, I've forgotten so much. Guess I better pull out a book or two.... I was just wondering why Patsy wouldn't have noticed the kitchen knife on the washing machine that morning if she was working in there. I mean, JonBenet was put to bed by Patsy...and Patsy is up before JonBenet. Someone speculated in a chat that the kitchen knife was to cut the panty package plastic tie to get the panties out. We know Burke's knife somehow went from that same cupboard, where LHP says she put it a month earlier, down to the basement, found on a counter in the area where JonBenet's body was concealed.

Anyhow...I kinda want to do this whole part of evidence discussion on the thread about stuff Patsy doesn't remember, because it's going to be involved, as you can see, and this thread is really for Cherokee's note analysis.

So after throwing all that out there, I'll just say what if Patsy rummaged through JAR's drawers...pulled out the "rope" from under JAR's bed...looking for the cord? If the cord came from an outdoor/camping/hiking equipment source...maybe she found it in JAR's room. Then she remembered Burke's knife in the cupboard, which she'd seen when getting those diapers to pack, got it and cut the cord and tied the noose in JB's bed...?

And what started it all? Maybe JB wet the bed, Patsy got her up to change her, found the open pack of panties meant for another child, which JB had opened with the kitchen knife to wear to the Whites...?

I know that's really writing fiction, because we'll never know that part, will we? But I bet it is something that silly. Or Burke swinging the flashlight in anger. Or whatever. And Patsy knew about the molestation...and JonBenet would not be getting any medical attention.

But I do wonder if it all came to a head with the 911 call on the 23rd. What if Grandpa Paugh got "caught" somehow that night, either JonBenet told someone, or someone was wiping JonBenet and found blood in her panties...somehow, someone called 911. The Ramseys and the Stines managed to calm things down and get rid of LE. Oh. This might explain that strange friendship that grew rapidly after the murder between the Ramseys and the Stines. But the upshot was Grandpa booked himself on standby to go to Atlanta on Christmas Eve, next night. JonBenet was "sick" that day, as well, wasn't she? Everyone is tense. And on Christmas Night...for some reason...it all explodes into a fatal head injury, covered up by a more fatal strangulation.

Well, I'm all over the place with this, I know. I guess my initial point is that a lot of activity was going on around the JB/JAR bedroom area that day and night. Patsy was admittedly there packing, dealing with JonBenet and Burke playing, getting ready for the White party, putting JonBenet to bed, then doing some laundry the next morning.... Patsy places herself taking diapers from the same place Burke's knife was hidden, in the cabinet, the same knife ending up in the basement near JonBenet's body. Patsy doesn't "recognize" the rope in that bedroom, but offers that she has seen John burn nylon rope ends on rope in his sailboat, similiar to the secured end of that rope found in JAR's room. She also used rope to decorate JAR's Christmas tree and for other decorations we've all seen pictures of, as well as for photo shoots of JB. The rope is most likely theirs, unless you're RST. Then it's brought in by some stranger intruder to climb out the window with JonBenet, or to tie up the family...along with pineapple snacks, taser, cord, duct tape, knife to cut it, and one body hair.

So...again...there is lots going on around that area...and Patsy is in the middle of all of it. And NOT ONE ITEM can be LINKED TO THE INTRUDER. NOT ONE.

But Zotto, I think you may have something with the Patsy using the flashlight to go down to the basement--for cord, or while carrying JonBenet there.

You know what? Now that y'all got me to thinking about it again...nobody said they saw any lights coming from the basement, did they? Screams heard, "strange lights" seen by neighbors...but no basement lights...?

So that would mean the killer had to use SOMETHING TO SEE BY. Enter...the MAGLIGHT. It was used. To manuever the basement and commit the murder and molestation there. To place JonBenet in the cellar room.

Does that make any sense? I never thought about that before quite like this. What would the killer have for light down there? I've never really IMAGINED that all that was done in the basement was done in darkness. With only a flashlight. Is that why the Maglight was on the counter and wiped down? Maybe new batteries had to be put in it, and they were wiped down, or it was all just wiped down as a reaction to cleaning up all that was connected with this murder, just in case....

OK, I've hit overload. Don't think I'm making a lot of sense anymore. If anyone can see anything in here worth responding to, I can use help figuring out what I'm trying to say. :gottarun:

 

you're right

I tried to explain a few years ago, when this idea came up, that cording used for sewing usually has a flat area to sew into the seam.
Wasn't it claimed that the McGuckins Hardware said a receipt found included two items (unnamed) and the price matched some duct tape and also some rope or cord that was allegedly purchased by Patsy within a couple of weeks of JonBenet's death? If this is so it does explain where the rope/cord came from but not where the rest of it went. I really doubt it was bought with the intention to stage a crime scene so it must have been used for it's intended purpose (perhaps to make carriers for some of her paintings as suggested by someone on this forum?) and what was used were left-overs.
If one or more of the Ramseys were involved in the murder and/or cover-up this is the thing that they probably secretly snicker about - everyone wondering what happened to the rest of the tape and cord. :banghead:

 

I'd love to chew the fat on this KK...

But I'm at work and am skimming a little....I'll re-read all you wrote when I have more time.

But yes, thinking about the "strange lights" that were reported...that could easily be a flashlight crossing windows with it's beam or whatever. It would have been no hassle for Patsy to run down those back stairs without a light...she knew them as well as anything, and she would have known where in the kitchen it was kept. I can easily navigate the stairs in my own place without the light on.

 

I do agree we need to back to Cherokee's fascinating analysis soon, KoldKase, and maybe put all this on an evidence thread - but first...

Zotto - I don't think they were hair ties. The cops involved had no understanding of the world of women, so they mistook POT HOLDER LOOPS for hair ties. (You make a potholder on a square frame with teeth to hold the loops as you weave them - first craft learned by many little girls. The frame is visible in a few evidence photos on JonBenet's nightstand.) The loops are bigger than hair ties and very stretchy, and maybe somebody thought they could use them for a garrotte before she realized they're not very strong.

KoldKase - another problem with hiding under the bed - wasn't Jacques the dog around for part of the day?

Regarding what piece of household flotsam Patsy would have noticed or not - her house was usually a mess and I think she can get away with not noticing a kitchen knife.

KK - I'd like to discuss this Grandpa/911 on 12/23 thing more, because I'm not familiar with it - but I have to read more about it. Any suggestions?

 

OK, gotta' run some errands, so I'll have to think about the Grandpa stuff and the 23rd/911 call. Other than PMPT and Thomas' book...we've talked about this for years, so sources are not coming to mind immediately. It's accepted as fact, though. Whether it is or not...never went to trial, so we only have what people tell us, don't we?

Oh, I couldn't find the exact post I was thinking of on the cord specifics from DonBradley...I only have 5 years of saving stuff to get through. But I did remember that DBradley said it was STANSPORT, and I did find a post he wrote saying it was a common sporting cord. I googled this years ago when Don did post the brand. I'll try again when I get back, or someone else can if they have time. But you have to remember that DonBradley is RST and so will never give a source, as the entire of the RST works to OBSCURE the truth rather than reveal it. They like to feel there's power in the "we know and you don't" tactic, but mostly, they just look exactly like the Ramseys: hiding the facts to spin it for advantage. The result is nobody can believe anything they say outright, so we have to take anything they say with a pound of salt. Like the "cord fibers in the bed," which came from ONLY RAMSEY SOURCES. So we don't know if it's true or just another lie to spin into an "intruder." So Ramsey of them, I think.

No sweat, Zotto, on reading that ungainly post. I almost didn't post it because it got totally away from me and I had to go before I could think it through clearly.

Oh, and Jacques the dog had been expelled from the home most of the time by then, I believe, for peeing inside. Seems that breed is hard to housetrain, and we know Patsy wasn't strong on continence-training anything, was she? I believe the dog was at the neighbors' house across the street that day, where he ended up permanently after the murder.

 

Wombat...my apologies....

I'm giving myself a thrashing for posting misinformation LOL! I'm sorry..that's what comes from posting in a hurry and not thinking. I did know they were pot holder loops in JB's room...not hair ties. I was thinking generally of Patsy knocking things over in her haste to do things.

 

Thanks to Google, the cord mystery is solved:

http://64.233.187.104/search?q=cach...ramsey/1998/03/09-1.html+stansport+cord&hl=en

Cord checked in Ramsey case
Nylon used in strangling bought locally, sources say

By MATT SEBASTIAN, Camera Staff Writer
Monday, March 9, 1998

Investigators are almost certain the nylon cord used to strangle JonBenét Ramsey came from a Boulder surplus store, sources have told the Daily Camera.

Detectives purchased the Boulder Army Store's entire stock of Stansport white nylon utility cord on May 22, and sent the samples to the Colorado Bureau of Investigation for comparison to the rope found around the 6-year-old's neck and right wrist.

Shannon Long, co-owner of the Boulder Army Store, wouldn't talk on Friday about the police visit, although he confirmed detectives purchased the cord.

"Yeah, they came in - and whatever they bought, they bought," Long said.

The surplus store is at 1545 Pearl St., just past the east end of the Downtown Mall.

The 1/4-inch-wide Stansport cord - which comes packaged in lengths of 50 and 100 feet and often is used for camping or outdoor activities - also is available at McGuckin Hardware.

Sources said Boulder investigators only purchased the nylon cord from the Boulder Army Store, not at McGuckin Hardware.

When asked if investigators had bought quantities of Stansport cord, a McGuckin manager said, "We don't have any comment."

 

OK, found some links on the cord that someone might be interested in.

Here is a Stansport site with white cord, 3/16th, not 1/4, down the page on the right. It comes in 50 ft. and up lengths:

http://www.stansport.com/pdf.single.2005/pages.040_2005.pdf

Here's the cord on another website, but larger pic, much better photo:

http://www.gr8gear.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=335

And here is an interesing discussion at WS about the cord, which the poster Lovely Pigeon says Thomas said is the 3/16th inch as the pictures about portray:

http://websleuths.com/forums/printthread.php?t=5052&pp=40

 

One reason talked about, was Patsy may have used the cord to make a sling to carry her art work around (?).

 

I have some large framed prints that hang from cord laced between two hooks on the back of the frame. I remember reading that the duct tape was similar to tape found at the back of some picture frames - maybe same source for both items - the back of framed artwork found in the basement??

 

Having problems with my post. Sorry! Posting again!

Moab, I didn't get the chance to delete this whole post (?).
It must be my own pc, I'm thinking (?). My post vanished before I was even finished. Any suggestions?

Reason for editing is all that appears.

 

I never used duct tape when framing my art work, Wombat. but have seen other artists use it.

I think Pam Paugh took away some art work of Patsy's when she made her famous raid on the Ramsey home, dressed in a Boulder Police jacket. The female cop asked the detective in charge if everything was being listed, and she was told not to worry about that.

A home cordoned off with the yellow police tape where a terrible crime has been committed, has items removed from the scene of the crime. Has anyone else ever heard of anything so bizarre as this? Before the investigation has had a chance to get going. Unbelievable! Such was the power of the Ramseys!

 

There are any number of reasons the Ramseys might have used this cord, some discussed on this thread and at the WS thread I linked to, with some good debate.

Among those: flight activities, camping, boating, hiking, climbing, outdoor activities requiring tie downs; Why_Nut found a throw at Target tied with similiar cord--and I was there yesterday, BTW, and saw similar household furnishings wrapped with cord the same way she described; macrame; other crafts; tying Christmas decorations; etc.

 

Is this the type of cord that can be used to tie a car trunk down to transport a Christmas tree home - either in the trunk or on top of the car?

 

Cherokee's latest analysis..

I was lucky enough to have a sneak preview at the table that Cherokee has posted today. I found it absolutely amazing and my thoughts were that this was something completely new. I've not seen anything like this done on the ransom note previously.

As I said to Cherokee, in many respects she was testing her own theory by putting in the data...she didn't know whether the result would come up female or male and to have it come up as more than double female than male is about as conclusive as it gets I think.

Kudos for your time-consuming hard work Chero....and more yet to come!

:bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown:

 

Trying to catch up here, Cherokee.

Fascinating about this reading the analysis from back to front. I am enjoying reading your analysis so much. You have broken this ransom note down, and made it so easy to understand.

Too bad the Ramseys were not taken to the station and separated. This definitely should have happened, and it's frustrating to go over the "if only the Police had done this-n-that" in this case. It's time the victims had some luck with justice in this rotten system.

I haven't read anything where the Ramseys came out and said they were sorry they had jumped the gun and called the police, and maybe JonBenét would not have been killed, Cherokee (?). Or the police telling them, this was why JonBenét was killed (?).

How on earth did the Ramseys truly manage to get away with this part? It truly baffles me!

Zoomama brought up an important point in a few posts back, where she asked ..."How come we went from the Foreign Faction to the Intruder so fast?" How come indeed? The Foreign Faction was laid to rest by Lou Smit and John Ramsey, and the invisible intruder was born.

Once again terrific work, Cherokee!

 

Having probems with quote feature,Moab (?). I'll change the colour of the text. Any ideas?

[QUOTE=Cherokee]
In graphology, a handwriting sample is first analyzed from the bottom of the page, or from the end to the beginning. The reason for this is that as a person writes they loosen up, and their true personality is revealed. When we start writing a letter or note, the writing is more controlled as we try to follow conventional dictates and present our best “self.†But the farther we go on the page, our natural tendencies begin to exert themselves, and the false control gives way to a freer hand.[/QUOTE]


Getting back to this personal handwriting, Cherokee, with the analysis being done from the end to the beginning, I was just thinking that most of these criminals who find out this analysis routine, will opt to type their notes rather than personally write them, although the normal kidnapping note is usually just a few lines, so the "end to the beginning" can't apply here.

A deep analysis can only be done if the writer chooses
to write a few pages, I'm thinking (?) It amazes me that with Patsy Ramsey's normal intelligence she was so distraught, she never gave it a thought about the people who would be analyzing her War and Peace ransom note, and how quickly they would discover that she was the author.

I'm sure you also analyze a typed script from the actual content like, Delmar does, which can pinpoint the criminal (?).

Thank you for the Bookblog. This whole thread will make interesting data to read over during the winter months.