Comparison of 'u', 'R' & 'o' in Ramsey campaign signs with Ransom Note

Yes, WY... I can understand this, having fun with writing. I think we all do this from time-to-time, whether we've taken a calligraphy course, or not. I think if we all look back through our childhood, there may have been someone older in the family, or a relation, who was a beautiful writer, and we have all tried to write like that person. The younger members of any family are usually influenced this way.

I'm unsure if it was a detective who made the statement "artistic people changed their writing all the time," to point out that Patsy was a very artistic person, and I remembered my own experience, but you're right, anyone can have fun with their own style.

 

Thank you, kindly, Cherokee. You have made my day! :takeabow: No! I was a secretary. I did take creative writing courses for several years for "children and teenagers" and never published anything! cguru: I also wrote poetry many years ago. I gave it all up! Now, more than anything, I enjoy reading all of the posts here by the wonderful group of members here.

I am sorry we have all met under such sad circumstances, but from something bad, comes something good. I enjoy all the different personalities here. Some flare up now and then, but this case does make some of us edgy at times.

Once again Cherokee, you have put a lot of hours into this recent project and it's all for the justice of little JonBenét, and we all understand that and appreciate it!

 

Ah ha! I KNEW you had an abiding interest in the wonderful world of language. :jumpie: I think it's great you took creative writing courses, and there's still time to get your work published! Don't give up. With your artistic nature, I'm not suprised your creativity extends to the written word.

I've had the exact same thought, Elle. It is sad that such a tragedy is the impetus for all of us to meet, but as you said, something good CAN COME from something bad. I have made lifelong friends through the forums, and it has been such an enjoyment to read, and learn from, other posters all over the world. I was born with an innate curiosity, always wanting to know more ... and the forums have provided me yet another way to learn so many diverse topics.

I also believe the forums are what keeps the JBR case alive, and if there is any hope of justice for JonBenet, it will come because of the efforts of the people on those forums.

Yes, things do flare up now and then. As you said, it's bound to happen because the subject (JonBenet's death, and the subsequential cover-up) is unpleasant and controversial. Most of us who are drawn to the forums have opinions, or we wouldn't be here. But I think we all have one thing in common ... we want to see this case solved, and put to rest.

Thank you, Elle, for those kind and encouraging words. If I knew what you drank, I'd buy you a cuppa ... or a bottle, whichever you preferred. LOL

 

Does nobody else see this here?

"...good southern common sense"?

No foreign faction considers someone to be "southern" or "northern". They're all Americans, and !@#$%&^* Americans at that!


And what's with the veiled (or not so covert, perhaps) compliment to John, whoever deems him to have common sense?

This style of complimenting the recipient, and of regional cognizance, speaks volumes about the origin of the note writer (American), and of their relationship with JR (they look favorably upon him instead of calling him some kind of capitalist trash, or the like).

Whoever wrote the note, they have left far too much of themselves exposed.

And yes, if you were trying to change your handwriting to write a ransom note, it would look like "example x", right?

And then, if under stress and giving a sample of your handwriting, you might try to change your style of writing in order to throw off your potential accusers, to throw the bloodhounds a bone as a distraction.

Could it be, that in a "blonde moment", the note writer might have tried to change their writing a second time, and yet in so doing, performed an encore of the first diversionary writing performance ("example x" revisited)? The same types of changes might be consciously employed in order to sidetrack the investigators? ...Just a thought... It IS possible... :deal:

 

Steve Thomas anyone?

Interesting to see that no ones taken up my challenge to defend Steve Thomas for accusing Patsy of changing her "a"s. Maybe one of his fans will be willing to admit that he, at least, blundered (if not outright falsified the evidence)?

As far as the three types of note evidence Cherokee mentioned, I think she's on the right track. And I'm sure her research is meangingful. But to PROVE that someone wrote that note, you have to look at samples from more than one person. Once you're zeroed in on a single individual you are definitely going to find similarities regardless. There are only so many ways of forming certain letters. What would really mean something would be an analysis of several samples from several different people, done double blind. If you could pick Patsy's sample out from all the rest without knowing whose was whose then THAT would be impressive. Otherwise, sorry, it just looks like you're climbing on the bandwagon.

 

(*yawn*)What's there to argue over, doc? If the whole investigation had been conducted in a more scientific and secure manner, this whole series of events might have been avoided, i.e., the discussions which are due to said blundered case/evidence and with it, the lack of closure.

 

No problem! Three Cheers Cherokee! I already had my white wine with my dinner!

 

I thought I would just post the following for those who may not be familiar with what you're talking about Doc.

http://denver.rockymountainnews.com/extra/ramsey/0409rams1.shtml


Thomas has written a book called JonBenet: Inside the Ramsey Murder Investigation. He is scheduled to appear on ABC programs this week to promote it.

He said Patsy Ramsey changed her handwriting after the slaying.

"In the ransom note, almost exclusively the lowercase manuscript a was used, I think, 98 percent of the time," ABC quotes Thomas as saying. "But what was telling was that after the Ramseys were given a copy of the ransom note, the lowercase manuscript a almost disappeared entirely from Patsy's post-homicide writing." Writing samples from Ramsey's personal letters and notes she wrote before the killing contain 732 manuscript a'sthat look like the lowercase typewritten a, but they are written by hand, Thomas said. He said she switched to a cursive a after JonBenet's slaying.

I see nothing wrong with Steve stating the above information, but I'm not getting into an argument over it.

 

JustChillun

Yeah, chillun, I know how you feel. It's been a LONG time with no tangible results. But IMO the case might still crack wide open if only the authorities and/or the media were less inclined to protect the individual who was their chief suspect very early on: John Ramsey. I'm really curious to know why he was "ruled out" as writer of the note when the one small sample of his printing that's been released so strongly resembles the note in so many ways. I'm really curious to know why Steve Thomas was so willing to give him a "pass." I'm curious to know why he was able to get that question about the ransom note eliminated from his self administered polygraph without anyone in law enforcement doing a double take -- or at least crying "foul." I'm curious to know why Linda Arndt, who testified to fearing for her life while alone with John, was given such a hard time by the authorities and dropped from the case. I'm curious as to why the media were even willing to accuse BURKE, but never John. And I'm amazed that, after so many years and so many many leaks of just about everything of importance, we still have only that one short exemplar of John's printing made available to the public.

People from all over the world have been screaming for Patsy's head on a platter for years and have scoured every tiny ounce of evidence that might be used against her in great detail. And the media have obliged. She has withstood that onslaught. IMO if she were truly guilty we'd have learned that by now. Meanwhile most of the evidence relating to John has NOT been revealed. Even the extremely damaging revelation regarding his fibers being found in JonBenet's panties has hardly caused a media ripple. And now, with Lin Wood in the driver's seat everyone in the media and LE (except the good Dr. Lee, natch) has been cowed into submission.

But sooner or later something has got to give. Someone in the media, the police, the DA's office at SOME point has got to say to himself: WHY the H*** have we been ignoring JOHN? Let's take another look at those fibers and those handwriting exemplars. And what ever happened to his historic exemplars? Did anyone even bother to check those at ALL????? And what about that "ruled out" bit? How would the case look if we ruled him back IN?

At this point I think things could well take a huge leap forward.

Just my opinion folks. Based on some FACTS!!!! And some very strong suspicions.

P.S. The content of the note very strongly reflects John's prose style IMO. Patsy's is breezy and informal, John's is formal and turgid, as is the note. One of John's favorite words is "proper," (as in "proper burial") he uses it ALL the time. HE is the one who's known to have used the phrase "and hence." There is no record of Patsy ever having used such a phrase and in fact it's totally foreign to her colloquial style. John loves to use percentage figures (as in "you have a 99% chance of killing your daughter"), I've found several examples. Finally the note is full of the kind of lingo that a man would use not a woman and the movie references are to the kind of action movies that women avoid and men love.

 

whoa, whoa whooooooaaaaa Doc! Where have you gotten the idea that John Ramsey was being "ignored?" Quite the contrary! I can't stab a friend in the back by going into detail here, but John Ramsey is anything but off the list. The hand-writing in the ransom is not, and never can be, a smoking gun in regards to prosecuting anyone for murder--opinions vary as to how much the writing resembles Patsys, as you yourself illustrate here. Henry Lee talks about the conflicting hand-writing experts in his book--so going down that particular road is an excersize in futility because no definate conclusion can ever be reached.

This is why Alex HUnter lost interest early on in hand-writing analysis. It's pointless.

Now--what is definately NOT pointless is the fact that the note was written in the home. This is a little fact which is HUGE. Kidnappers don't forget to bring ransom notes! This case has grown so old that people forget just what a huge, stunning clue this is--and it is proof positive that the focus of the investigation was, is and always will be, the Ramseys. Henry Lee is absolutely clear that this ransom note is the big item in this case, and that it's blatant phoniness points to the fact that is is part of the general staging. Killers don't stage crime scenes in other peoples' homes.

John Ramsey ignored? No way in hell. Unfortunately after 8 dreary years we are no closer to pointing out definitively what went down that night, or who really did what.

You know how you women are always telling me that women can see through manipulative women way quicker than men can? I think that's true! But I also think men tend to see things in other men that women miss. I distinctly remember, early on in this case, feeling like John Ramsey was sticking by his wife almost blindly--and my gut feeling was he had motives which were hardly about true love and blind faith in his spouse. I felt like he had a very vested interest in keeping this thing out of the courts. That feeling has not changed.

 

Bob,


This line jumped out at me!! Killers don't stage crime scenes in other peoples' homes. They don't!

 

I agree 100%, BobC. There is no telling what kind of skeletons are behind Door Number Three.

It was obvious in the early CNN interview that John was the one in control, and he was trying to keep a lid on Patsy ("the loose cannon") for fear she would say too much. Patsy tends to over-explain things ... just like in the ransom note ... and in her interviews with detectives. She had trouble just saying "yes" or "no," and usually talked all around the subject, trying to explain herself instead of answering the question.

John's manner is short and curt. Patsy emotes. That was obvious also on the recent campaign trail. It was Patsy who wrote the campaign donation letter, and Patsy who interrupted John to answer questions. It was Patsy who talked to reporters ... even at their campaign headquarters when they were losing. She's the one who said they had "the bug," and wouldn't give up politics ... not John. Patsy loves to communicate, John does not.

I've always wondered why John "lawyered up" his ex-wife and family in GA, but not Patsy's family. Was there something he was hiding there? Or was he afraid they would say something to give him away?

John is certainly not "the innocent" in this affair. His participation in the cover-up attests to that fact.


IMO

 

Elle--it really IS that simple. Look over ALL the Ramsey's transcripts and they avoid talking about the ransom note like it's the plague. In fact, these days they act like it never even happened! Strange behaviour considering it's their daughter's killer's calling card. Why are they NOT waving that note on every TV appearance? Why are they not dissecting every word?

I'll tell you why: it's because it is embarrassing overkill which points straight to them. They want it to go away.

Cherokee--if you actually talk to some ex-friends of the Ramseys they will tell you that John Ramsey and Patsy Ramsey practically switched personalities after the murder. John Ramsey used to be quiet-bordering-on-strange, and Patsy could hardly shut up. Suddenly JR was the extrovert and Pats just sat there! Why was JR suddenly so needing to control the flow of information? Maybe because Patsy is so theatrical, so verbose that everytime she elaborates on anything she draws more suspicion to them? Like when she sent out that Christmas card with "and hence" it it?

 

Exactly my point.

John didn't need to control the flow of information BEFORE JonBenet's death ... but afterwards, he realized he needed to make sure Patsy didn't talk herself into a corner from which there was no return.



IMO

 

So what do you make of the fact that JR rushed to grab the pad Patsy wrote the note on, giving it to the cops that morning? And him calling this "an inside job?"

If he was covering things up, why do these two things? I'd have burnt that pad

 

BobC

I'm glad you see far enough and clear enough to suspect John of involvement in aspects of both the crime and coverup. But for me the key is the note, who wrote it and WHY.

"The hand-writing in the ransom is not, and never can be, a smoking gun in regards to prosecuting anyone for murder--opinions vary as to how much the writing resembles Patsys, as you yourself illustrate here. Henry Lee talks about the conflicting hand-writing experts in his book--so going down that particular road is an excersize in futility because no definate conclusion can ever be reached."

But a definite conclusion WAS reached, unfortunately, by the investigation team -- and the media along with just about everyone else went along meekly with their finding. They concluded that John could NOT have written the note. THAT's what most mystifies and frustrates me about this case, because I can see no reason for drawing that conclusion. None has ever been offered. And yet it totally changed the direction of the investigation, which was initially focused on the most likely suspect: JOHN. Because John was ruled out and Patsy wasn't, all eyes were suddenly on HER and she has become the "star" of the case with John lurking quietly in the background.

As far as the rest of it is concerned I totally agree. The note was written in the home and there is no real evidence of an intruder or reason for an intruder to have written it. It's hard to imagine that anyone besides John or Patsy could have written it. But when we ask ourselves who would have had a REASON to write it, THAT's when things get interesting, that's what will finally crack this case.

As far as "and hence" is concerned, we don't know who put that into the Ramsey Xmas note. Could have been either one of them. But the logical choice is John, not Patsy. For one thing the note contains the phrase "we as a family." If you're familiar with the many interviews John has given you'll know that this sort of phrase is a commonplace of his. Pasty NEVER uses that type of construction. For another thing, we have a direct quote from John in an interview where he actually states "and hence." I feel sure it came from him and not her.

 

Well they say the longer you're married the more you start talking and looking alike!

"like so many other things in this case, the results were inconclusive..."

Henry Lee

 

For the record, it wouldn't surprise me a bit if JR killed JBR.

Since Henry Lee has "come out" and confirmed so much of what ST said in his book, I'm gonna throw a bone to the forum here and tell you all something I've never spoken about before. Back in the days when I was really into the case and trying to worm my way into talking to Ramsey friends, I managed to snare a phone conversation with a person who was at one time very good friends with Patsy Ramsey. At first she was guarded but over the course of two hrs or so of yapping I think she got more comfortable and realised I wasn't going to stab her in the back. I really was all about getting a better understanding of the Ramseys via people who truly knew them. Anyway, I'll call this friend Babs, just because I like that name. Now just like all the other friends I or my case friends spoke to, Babs had mostly good things to say about the Ramseys. Great parents, friendly, kinda fun people--the whole bit. She told me that that she (Babs) and several Ramsey friends would sit around after the murder and put their heads together, trying to figure out who could have done this to the Ramsey family. She said that no one even fathomed for a minute that John or Patsy could be even remotely responsible. The whole concept was unthinkable. McSanta was the number one suspect, even though in hindsight, Bas said, they had no real concrete reason for thinking that except that he was "wierd."

Now here's the interesting part, which to me made me stop in my tracks. Babs said that Patsy Ramsey was probably the strongest woman she'd ever met--that Patsy was the kind of person where if a problem came into her life she would solve it, end of story. She said Patsy's ability to solve problems, without getting intimidated or feeling insecure, was almost intimidating! Babs then said that she found it "disturbing" That Patsy was so obviously sedated all the time with her daughter's killer on the loose still. This was not the Patsy Babs knew--she said even when Patsy was at Death's Door from cancer, Patsy was strong and relied mainly on strength of will, rather than pain-killers, to ease the pain she was in. But directly after the murder, Patsy was too sedated to even speak to anyone, and half the time she had to be propped up while walking. This sedation thing was not the response Babs expected from Patsy and found it "troubling."

This conversation was years ago but I do recall Patsy's friend seeming almost embarrassed to say this stuff-embarrassed that she was thinking it. Patsy was a fighter, especially where her children were concerned, so lapsing into a drug ged stupor seemed totally out of character even under the circumstances. I asked if she had read that Patsy had told the police that she would have knocked John in the head (something like that) if she caught JR molesting her daughter. "Now THAT's the Patsy I remember" said Babs.

A little later the Vanity Fair article came out and a friend said the notion of Patsy covering for JR molesting JBR was "almost funny." I was struck by how similar that sentiment was to other friends'.

So there you have it. How could Patsy the fighter lapse into a drugged stupor when her daughter's killer was somewhere out there? With Burke still vulnerable? JR too!

Then suddenly there they are on national TV, Patsy as poised and beautiful as a TV anchor woman, saying "we will find you..."

 

The only thing that makes sense to me, BobC, is that they covered for Burke.