DOI - The Murderer

Just too ridiculous for words, Tea! Lou Smit can be thanked for pushing the stun gun and the window theory into play.I don't think I can go over all this again. Too frustrating!!

 

Ya know, this has got to be the most incompetent kidnapping attempt I've ever heard of. I mean, you'd almost think that the perpetrator actually was Homer Simpson! D'oh!

-Tea

 

icetea & Elle

Yes, the Ramsey's are too ridiculous for words. I have enjoyed your insightful posts on this thread. The dialogue between the two of you is most interesting.

My thoughts:

If John Ramsey was Pinocchio, his nose would be so big that he would have to carry it around in a wheelbarrow.

As Mrs. Pinocchio, Patsy would require the services of the French Foreign Legion to carry her snout around, with an attache case for her kleenex.

GL
:leaf:

 

Hahahahaha! Greenleaf. I have such a vivid imagination that I can visualize this scene. John Ramsey wheeling his long nose around in a barrow. You have a way with words. I have been posting on this case for almost five years now, not all of them at FFJ. A few of them at CN2000, another great site like FFJ. We come and we go, and we always come back for more punishment.

I'm sure you are one of the ones who go further back than I do (?). Along with ACandyRose, Tricia, and all the other mods here. I remember admiring Forums For Justice when I paid it a visit when I first joined a few sites. Here we are into 2006 with the case not being solved. Yes, I find it very frustrating at times, but I do enjoy all the posters here including yourself, Greenleaf.

I did write a post to you in reply to one of your announcements on a few threads (?) ... after I read your latest writing of "Patsy Meets the Devil."
Very clever! Congratulations!

 

I know about punishment. Great as your story is, Greenleaf, I'd rather not wait that long!

 

I wanted to say you have quite simply found the Ramsey's thinking in their own words on the night in question: "...part of a gang or from a foreign country where the use of a garrote would be familiar."

I'm thinking...John helped write the note. It's been said many times he might have dictated it to Patsy, and hence..."Listen...."

 

Exactly, Tea. This is more of Defective Smit's logic, compliments of the Ramseys. The suitcase was kept under the staircase. Why would the killer be leaving by climbing up into that window well he barely could get his butt through to start with...and Smit proved that on national tv? The intruder who spent hours playing kidnap and murder in the house while the Rams had their dinner at the White's would have known exactly how to walk out a door if the alarm was not set, and he surely would have thought to LOOK at the alarm on his way down the stairs with JonBenet, doncha' think? Since he thought to rifle the Rams' business records for John's bonus amount, surely he might have thought, hey, no alarm, no need to climb through a window I've already left fibers all over coming in!

Absurd, all the way around.

 

KK:

The Ramseys have written this book to fill the public's mind with everything and anything that removes their thinking away from the Ramseys themselves. I quite believe they had fun writing it.

The Ramseys had to keep the reader thinking of what was in the ransom note and make it come to life for the reader, as any other fiction book is supposed to do. A crafty pair!

 

I don't know where it went, but I lost this part of the above post by me, so...continuing....

The intruder was so clever, he thought, hey, instead of using the chair he instead put in front of the door to the train room for some reason nobody can figure out, he'd simply take the unstable suitcase with the semen-stained duvet and child's book inside and push a struggling six year old child through the difficult window!

I swear this killer is so stupid, makes you wonder how he has managed to keep LE from even so much as putting him under the umbrella....

 

Isn't this ridiculous KK?

 

Excellent analysis, tea, you're doing great! Thank you so much for doing this. It's always helpful to remember how brilliant those WORLD-CLASS DETECTIVES the Rams frittered their fortune away on trying to FIND THE INTRUDER really were. If the Rams really wanted to sue someone, they should be suing their detectives for FRAUD!

Even a bunch of amateurs like us can see that the duct tape was applied after the head blow...WHEN JONBENET WAS ON HER BACK WITH SALIVA RUNNING DOWN HER FACE TO HER RIGHT, DRIPPING ON HER UPPER SHIRT SLEEVE, WHICH MEANS HER HANDS WERE ALSO RAISED. (It's gravity, stupid!) That is PROOF POSITIVE that she was already unconscious, if not dead, DROOLING while lying on her back with her arms already raised, when the duct tape was applied.

And that, my friends, means THE DUCT TAPE WAS STAGING, NOT USED BY KIDNAPPERS TO SHUT HER UP, AS SHE WAS ALREADY DEAD OR DYING WHEN IT WAS APPLIED. And kidnappers/intruders do NOT stage the crime scene, they kidnap/do the crime and LEAVE....

See, simple logic can go a LOOOOOOOOOOOOONG way when you TRULY let the evidence lead you, NOT A DEFECTIVE DETECTIVE LOOKING FOR A FOREGONE CONCLUSION HE CAN RIDE TO BEING A LEGEND IN HIS OWN MIND.

Sorry about all the caps, but I get soooooooooooooooo mad when I think about the stupid crap the RST has spun all these years so a child killer can perform her driveway dance routine for them.... :scream:

 

A profiler once said, (I don't remember which one, maybe Ressler,) that if a kidnapper were to apply duct tape to silence the victim, he would be trying to get the victim out of the house as fast as he can. It was staging, IMO.

 

You said it, koldkase! The RST is always talking about how much time the "intruder" was in the house, learning the layout. Yes, he spends all this time there and doesn't check the alarm system prior to the Ramseys coming home?

Yeah. Right.


-Tea

 

IMO, the wine cellar would be the worst place for an intruder to place JonBenet because it only has one way out. Now let's say that John does hear something and goes downstairs to investigate and let's also say that he has a gun with him. He encounters this "intruder" in the wine cellar with JonBenet. John is in the doorway with a loaded gun and the "intruder" is trapped with no way out.

-Tea

 

Actually, I think Ramsey contradicted himself with this one, too, because he said he checked the doors and windows and none of them were open. Remember that both Patsy and John said in their interviews that he checked the entrances to the house, either before he went upstairs to get dressed that morning or sometime in that time frame (once again, she couldn't remember for sure).

Doesn't it just stand to reason that if the butler's door was opened, cold air would be pouring inside? Doesn't it stand to reason that anyone with half a brain would close a door that was standing open in the middle of winter? Doesn't it just make the Ramseys look like big fat liars, again? What kind of fools are they, anyway, that they 1) couldn't feel cold air coming in from the open door; 2) didn't mention the open door to cops that morning; 3) didn't bother to close the open door when JR and Patsy said he checked the entrances that morning. It was only after Fernie said he found the butler's door open that JR picked up on it. I frankly don't believe Fernie.

 

______________________________________________________________
Spriggy
unregistered user
02-01-06, 03:04 PM (EST)

6. "RE: Let's solve the JonBenet case 2"
In response to message #5

Why would the murderer go through the window instead of out the back door you ask??
Well, if JonBenet screamed he was concerned she woke up the parent's, going back up the stairs might lead him directly into the face of her mom or dad or both.

Going back out the window makes more sense to me. He can avoid running into anyone that might be coming down the stairs to find the scream.
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*sigh* Let's try this one more time...

1. "Intruder" enters house via basement window.
2. "Intruder" checks alarm system and sees it is deactivated.
3. "Intruder" learns layout of house and writes note demanding $118,000, employing nine characteristics of Patsy's writing.
4. The Ramsey family comes home and have JonBenet in her bed in five seconds flat.
5. The Ramsey family goes to bed.
6. "Intruder" then enters JonBenet's room, "stun-guns" her, and ties her wrists with the cord. He also has duct tape and, as we all know, duct tape is always placed over the victim's mouth to prevent anyone from hearing their screams. (Come to think of it... why weren't her ankles tied together to prevent her from running away?)
7. "Intruder" carries JonBenet down the spiral staircase to the first floor. All he has to do to reach the butler kitchen door that John said was found open that morning, according to a diagram the police drew, was walk down a small flight of steps into the butler kitchen and then out the door. There would be no reason for him to go back up the stairs at this juncture.

I don't know. Maybe some people will require me to use sock puppets to demonstrate this.

-Tea

 

Sock puppets wont' do it, Tea. You need a little head to explain this...so they can help you ignore the obvious convoluted BS one needs to swallow to believe any intruder did this crime.

For example: if an intruder duct taped JB's mouth...how'd she scream, as the neighbor said? Or if that scream wasn't real but a figment of the neighbor's imagination, moving along, how'd JB drool down her face onto the anterior top sleeve of her shirt with duct tape on her mouth? The drool was BLOOD TINGED, by the way, so THE SALIVA DRAINED FROM HER MOUTH AND DOWN ONTO THE SHIRTSLEEVE POST MORTEM.

Wonder if that fact has ever penetrated jamstheRamsworstnightmare's real-evidence-barrier? Nah....

And just why would a killer hang around and CLEAN THE BODY and STAGE DUCT TAPE if JB did in fact scream? If the theory is that he put the suitcase under the window to help him escape if someone came to the top of the stairs...why didn't he just take that exit and leave the body as it was? Nope, not our anal retentive killer/molester: he then garrotes her, bashes her head in, according to the RST, and still wipes her genital area down carefully, pulls up her panties and pants, duct tapes her mouth, lays her blanket down and her on it, wraps it around her "like a papoose" (according to John himself). Then the intruder packs up his roll of duct tape, his cord, the cloth he wiped her with, his coat, the paintbrush tip, runs back upstairs, lays the ransom note carefully across a spiral step, all three pages...and then runs back downstairs and out the window...or out the door...which John checked that morning...and was locked from the night before...oops, no it wasn't...yeah it was...no it wasn't.... All AFTER the "scream"? Or not.

Also, just why would this clever killer not simply take JonBenet to the train room to do all this murdering? It had a door. That's where his "escape" window was. If John came downstairs with a gun, the stairs led straight to the hallway ending at the cellar room. The window on the other side of the train room would require the killer to run UP that hallway and through the door to the train room, to the window on the other side of another wall and up onto an unstable suitcase to hoist himself out the small window into the deep well and out through the grate...with John Ramsey shooting at his backside the whole way.... The area at the cellar room door and the cellar room were the most remote, enclosed place he could have gone, as someone said, with NO EXIT.

OH...and just where oh where did he put that ransom note, all three pagese, he'd written so carefully on Patsy's pad with her pen, while he hid and the Rams came in, all four, and spent an hour or more settling two kids in after a long Christmas Day, preparing for a trip in a few hours...? Down his pants? Not wrinkled, not folded, not scrunched...so...where would you put a ransom note like that while you waited for hours? Leave it in the pad, not knowing if someone might happen upon it, checking her list, or making a list? Hide it somewhere it could be carefully laid out without being found? Oh, how clever this killer was. He thought of everything!

Except...he forgot to take the child or the body....

I mean, how'd he know Patsy wouldn't be up packing all those clothes lying folded alongside the suitcase on JAR's bed but mere feet away from where JB was sleeping? I have been known to pack and clean most all night during traveling holidays. How'd the killer know John was going to take some melatonin and Patsy was going to just throw some things in a garbage bag next morning? How'd he know they wouldn't be leaving that night, anyhow? John had his own plane. He could fly out anytime.

How'd this killer know someone wouldn't just drive up while he was having such a thrill wandering around that evening? The Rams had lots of friends and kids and family and John ran a company with hundreds of employees. Was this killer just sooooooooooooo lucky? Nobody got up in the middle of the night to get water? Medicine? Sneak down to check out a toy left by Santa? No late phone call from kids or family or friends, confirming plans for the flight or needing to talk, an emergency, or a little tipsy and wanted to say Merry Christmas? CHECK ON THE KIDS? INSOMNIA? One of a thousand reasons someone in a family might get up in the night?

OH, come on. No kidnapper is going to risk ANY of this. You're talking a FELONY: ATTEMPTED KIDNAPPING OF A CHILD. JonBenet would have been gone in MINUTES if someone really wanted to kidnap her.

Like Danielle van Dam. THAT'S how a kidnapper works. In. Snatch. Out. So fast, even with a dog in the house, he had her and was gone without anyone even noticing until the next morning she was gone. And THEN he took his time...curse the monster!

 

Oh, I already know it's BS, koldkase, but apparently others aren't able to grasp that yet.

Blood-tinged? I don't believe I'm familiar with this aspect of the case. From where did you hear this?

Ah, yes. John's good ol' "I'm gonna tell you that several things must have occurred between the scream and the man leaving the basement, but I'm just not gonna tell you exactly what they are because everyone in their right mind knows no intruder would do such things" spiel. John did state in DOI (paraphrased) "I told my friends I could've done a better job of staging the scene." Yeah, John could have done a better job, but he didn't, did he?

It was I who said that.

And there was nothing at all which prevented this intruder from doing so. NOTHING.

Yet Smit said in that Court TV program that, based on a disturbed dust ruffle on JAR's bed, this indicates that the intruder could've been hiding under the bed. Once again, this intruder has put himself in a precarious situation. What if Patsy actually had been doing some packng that night? What if something she needed was under that bed? Ooops!

Amen, koldkase.

-Tea

 

Any intruder that stupid would have already been caught.